El-P

I don't get fixated on them, they just make me cringe every time around.

I guess that's a believability issue in the sense I have to believe it can actually hurt his opponent. Or at least look good in a pro-wrestling aesthetic sense, which is not the case. When I hear the grating "educated feat" line from the announcers and have to watch *those* kicks, I just roll my eyes. Pretty much. I know I won't get Kawada or Aja Kong stiff kick here. It's not the issue. I just want them to look good like any wrestling spot. A top rope elbow is not believable, but a great looking tope rope elbow is a great spot. I don't like Stan's kicks not because they aren't realistic stiff kicks, but because they look ridiculous. Probably, yes. I don't know, but at the very least Stan not looking like a goof doing them would be a beginning. On the same show Muta debuted the handspring elbow. Totally ludicrous and "unbelievable", but looks awesome in a pro-wrestling setting.

I don't care that it's not believable. 99% of wrestling offense is not believable. My issue with it is that it looks terrible and damages my enjoyment of the match I'm watching whenever Stan gets on offense with it. It's the cringeworthy minute of every MX match.

If you train the audience to buy shit, they will eventually buy it. That doesn't change the fact it's shit. The fact that the audience at the time bought them doesn't change the fact that Stan's kick look like shit. Same thing works with pretty much anything, music, movie, TV... food... ideology... Wrestling is about manipulation of the audience to begin with, so with that line of thought, the only good wrestling is what gets over and makes money. Well, that's not what I'm looking for when I watch it...

You know how to make Stan Lane's "martial arts" kick even worse ? By debuting the Samoan Swat Team, Ranger Ross and The Great Mota (yeah, that how it was spelled) in a few weeks span. The Michael Hayes heel turn was long overdue, he was so boring as a face. The announcing team of Ross and Hayes is just great, they have a true chemistry together, and Hayes was as great in that role as he was during the UWF days.

He's a sumo. Sumo don't jump high. Funny, I never really noticed Misawa adjusting his tights like I did with Choshu. The biggest offender in that respect was Davey Boy. He would do it all the time. Flair putting the figure four on the wrong leg was a lot worse though, since he was supposed to be *the* specialist of the hold.

I don't think so. How many territories had black stars headlining apart from Mid-south ? I can't see a black wrestler becoming Ric Flair in the 80's. There wasn't even a place for black transitionnal champion, like Butch Reed probably could have been. Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?

unless grumpy old Tenryu in the late 90s and 00's started actually connecting to the skull a lot more than "prime" Tenryu did. John He didn't.

Past your prime doesn't equal bad. Windham was probably past his prime has early as 93, because of injuries and lazyness. But he was so good that it didn't matter that much, when he wanted, he could still go. Even fat and old, Windham was still better than shitloads of wrestlers. I'd argue that in 1988, Windham was the best wrestler in the US.

The People's elbow was a retarded spot, but The Rock's perfect execution of it made it shitloads of fun. Lane's kicks were just god awful, looking like it couldn't hurt a dead fly. And it's not even like looking in retrospect after years of stiff kicks. It's just awful looking. I do think Lane is getting a free pass for being part of the MX. The MX still were a great team involved in great matches, but it's like Kawada & Taue at the time Taue sucked. I cringe when Lane makes a comeback or an offense flurry with the shitty kicks. Tenryu-zigiri looked "heavy", which fit the frame of my beloved Tenryu. Plus he's a former sumo guy, and a former sumo doing enzuigiri, even shitty ones, still rules (plus the japanese audience was used to sloppy enzuigiris after years of Inoki and Fuji) . And really, despite the questionnable enzuigiris, Tenryu is a great worker. Lane just doesn't strike me as particulary good. Didn't matter since the tag formula kinda hide that fact (maybe a good reason why Lane never worked solo), especially when you're working with guys like Eaton or Pritchard. I won't say a word about Keirn, I don't like the Fabs.

That's the only thing great about Stan Lane, this spot is ridiculously good.

Agreed. Stereo moves are awesome if hit right. If not, they can be pretty brutal.

I know, but he was trying to say that basically nobody besides JBL used a clothesline for a finisher in America, and that's simply not true. Hansen did plenty enough work in the States over the decades, and probably wrestled more matches in America than in Japan, we just don't have much footage of a lot of his earlier stateside stuff. Come on. Stan Hansen equals Japan in everyone's mind. That's where he made his name, that's where he made his money, he's more a japanese worker than an american worker. His cup of tea in WCW and ECW in the 90's don't mean anything, he was a guy from Japan working for a while in the US. And this is in Japan where he made the "Lariato!" famous. And in the last 30 years, very few people have used a clotheline as a finisher, and many who did quickly changed for another finisher for the remainder of their career (Hogan, except when he goes to Japan; Windham, got to the superplex). When JBL did it it was basically a throwback to Hansen, and it worked only because it was super stiff. You can argue that Hacksaw Duggan used it for a while in WWF, but that's it, he used a Brody-like knee in WCW. Anyway, it's nothing very important either.

For the cup of tea he had there, but Stan is mostly a japanese worker. Maybe in the AWA, I'm not sure. Still, Axe Bomber was over in NJ mostly. Maybe. But I've seen him more using a belly-to-belly as a finisher. Indy guys don't matter. Ok, in the big two of the modern era, that leaves us with Windham for a year and a half before he choosed to use the superplex, Stan Hansen whenever he worked in WCW, and JBL who was a fourth rate Stan Hansen wananbe. See a pattern here, those cowboys sure like to use lariats.

And probably the only one I can think off in the last 30 years. JBL stiffed the fuck out of his opponents with his lariat.

Lawler using a thousand punches bothers me. Liger using a shotei as a finisher doesn't. Once it's accepted as a finisher and looks good, everything can be a good finisher. It's all about perception. Plus it's Japan where a lariat has been a finisher for years, which would be unthinkable in the States. Really don't have a problem with it. Funny fact, I just watched a squash match from Dan Spivey from WCW TV in 89. He used three powerbombs in a row. Not one. Three. The announcers had no name for it. They didn't sell it like it was immediate death. And it wasn't the finisher of the match, which ended up being a weak side slam a la-Big Bossman. Surrealistic. The heart punch sucks. It's neither realistic nor cool looking nor brutal looking nor anything, it usually looks like shit and is used mostly by supremely shitty wrestlers.

Well, "a punch as a finisher" is better than "a punch as 90% of your offense" to me.

Precisely why it sucks. Wrestling isn't better when it's more "real". Who said it was ? But I just don't see what the problem is with it being a finisher. I'd rather have this as a finisher than say, a fucking legdrop. So, Jerry lawler using 169 punches in one match is great, but a short stocky japanese guy in a demon superhero costume slapping people around isn't ? Come on...

A shotei or a punch really are more "realistic" than 99% other wrestling moves.

Stan Lane's kick are just godawful. The more I watched the Eaton/Lane MX, the more I think Lane drags them down quite a bit. As soon as he tags in and does these kick I just cringe. Plus he as a strange way to stand, like he's getting off his horse, just awkward to watch. Plus the Fabulous Ones don't do anything for me.

Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead. Resulting in pinfall victories? Yes.

Blasphemy. Liger slapping people is the greatest thing in pro-wrestling. I should watch that instead.

No, the "Butch Reed is great" pimping went over my head based on his Mid-south work. I just don't see it at all. I know people who are pimping him don't refer to his late 80's, post mid-south days, although I also heard lot of "Doom is a great team" pimping over the years, and I never got that either. It really feels like another era was beginning. The first TV show of the year had a Dusty promo, JJ Dillon was around for a few weeks while Arn & Tully were already gone, and then, Dusty's gone, Dillon's gone, no more reference to the Horsemen. Also, Stan Lane is quickly getting more and more annoying. I was never a big fan, but watching "lots" of Stan Lane in a short timeframe really damages the opinion I have from this version of the MX. My opinion of Lane already went south after watching some Fabulous Ones matches, and now I can say that Lane really dragged the MX matches down quite a bit with his horrible offense. Man, can you imagine a MX version of Eaton and Pritchard instead ? It's strange that Bobby Fulton got so much shit over the years for being a "poor worker" in a great team, while he honestly is actually quite good, and Lane got a relatively free pass because it's the MX. Eaton was 90% of the reason the team was still excellent.

Really ? I don't know, it didn't struck me as very different from all the super deliberate pace Reed had in Mid-south. I could have used more offense from Reed and less chinlock sequences, but the match made perfect sense, Reed fed for Sting's comebacks really well, I thought it worked. Energetic Sting grounded by the big powerhouse works for me. I had no idea it was a very unpopular match. Again, I'm not buying the "Reed = great worker" argument I've heard in the last few years, but I still kinda enjoy his style.

How to damage a perfectly good card on paper : _book two shitty finishes in back to back important title matches in which the champion loses his belt by basically pinning himself _don't deliver on a stipulation that had been sold to you by two months worth of great promos That was the story of Chi-Town Rumble basically. _Rick Steiner vs Mike Rotunda : good match, and the first appearance on WCW TV of young (and sane at this point) Scott Steiner in the corner of his slow brother. Rotunda gets killed quite a bit and bumps his ass off for Steiner, who doesn't throw people around that much yet. Terrible finish with Steiner putting Rotunda in a sleeperhold, only to lay on the mat and pin himself while Rotunda goes out. Because Rick is slow. Yes, this is the NWA, "We Wrestle", but we still have shit finishes because of goofball gimmick personnality. Too bad. Which leads to : _Barry Windham vs Lex Luger : Windham at this point is up there with Flair and Steamboat, maybe even better. Sadly I think he's leaving soon to get wasted in the Widowmaker gimmick in Titan. He's also one the most gracious wrestler ever. The way he moves is absolutely amazing, he's like a panther. Great work by Windham, in pure barwling mode, who injures his hand on the metal post, actually blades it (I think), and sells the hell out of it. Luger works super hard at this point, which makes up for whatever limitation he has. Really good, intense match so it has to end with the infamous "german suplex in which one guy lift his shoulder at the last moment so the other gets pinned" shitty finish. Which wouldn't have been quite shitty if we haven't seen another champion lose his belt via self-pin just a few minutes before. Terrible booking here, which kinda ruins a really good match. _I don't know what the story was with Dennis Condrey, did the guy just vanished again, but he was MIA here, so instead of the final MX vs O-MX match, with Cornette & Heyman having to leave if their team loses, we get MX vs Randy Rhodes (who really was the lesser MX member of the four, by a huge margin) and Jack Victory. And now the loser of the fall must leave instead of Corny or Heyman. Huge letdown and way to fuck up with the stips. Best part of the match is Corny as a wrestler, who drops a great elbow and does a great face-in-peril. Rhodes gets fired, I say good riddance, he was just nothing special at all. Jack Victory "debuts" here as himself, after jobbing again earlier in the night under a hood. Was this guy paid double-duty every night ? Sting vs Butch Reed was good, although the über deliberate Reed style is a acquired taste to say the least. I never got the Butch Reed pimping as him being this great wrestler. Varsity Club vs Road Warriors was decent for a short bomb throwing match in 1989, although you get the feeling no one wants to really sell much for the others. And of course Flair vs Steamboat is just an all-time great match, worked at a terrific pace, super stiff, just everything looks great, on timing, at the right place. On the following WCW episode, Eddie Gilbert "introduces" Missy Hyatt. I chuckled at his little tricky promo. Gilbert was miscat as a babyface though, he was just a natural heel. It never struck me before I watched these WCW episodes how much he looked like Lawler, the way he talked, the way he carried himself, the way he moved. And just a gigantic promo by the debuting Iron Sheik, with great line of him namedropping all the wrestling promotions "AWA, NWA, WW whatever !". This promo stole the whole show.