MJH

I just watched Shibata/Ishii and I get the hype. I don't agree with it but with them knocking six degrees of shit out of each other and the crowd going crazy, it's a hard match not to enjoy. But still, that's all it really comes down to: two guys beating the fuck out of each other and see who falls first. I mean, one can be all smug and say "well, isn't that what wrestling always comes down to?" but it's as if these guys have seen Kobashi/Sasaki or whatever and decided to ape that in appearance only. I mean, sure, that match has had plenty of detractors, but if we take out that it was two big powerful heavyweights in the Dome (which is a perfect setting for such a match), they didn't chop the hell out of each other, they composed and structured the match in such a way as to where they mirrored one another (Kobashi/Misawa 10/97 being a more obvious version of such a structure, though Cena/Batista did it too at one point, I want to say the SummerSlam match?), building to the OK Corral stand-off and the key spot after which one guy is done for (in the Cena/Batista one it was the powerbomb counter off the top). Say what you will about the "no-selling" etc... it was thought-out and structured. Shibata/Ishii didn't have any of that. One guy might have a short period of control, the other would hulk up, win the next dueling sequence, rinse and repeat until the finish. And that's it. It was a good match, for reasons already stated and the dueling sequences were strong from an action perspective... but it's missing that key structure to make it anything more than two tough guys twatting shit out of each other, y'know? There was a match in the Carnival in I think maybe 2010? Pretty sure it was Kono and Sanada, two young guys, neither being particularly great or anything, and inexplicably asked to do a TLD. And like them, it's not especially strong a match, you can see both guys inexperience and weaknesses all over the place, but what made it stand-out to me was that, watching it, everything they did made sense. It was as if Kobashi or Kawada came in to play agent for the night, sat them down, and bullet-pointed the whole thing out for them. Maybe they just stumbled onto it, who knows, but it's something I don't see in 90%+ of contemporary Japanese stuff, in any of these big pimped recent New Japan matches. It's all action-based and goes no further. It's fun, the matches are enjoyable, but it's the easiest thing to fix (I mean they work these matches out in advance so there's no Flair/Steamboat "winging it" excuses) and no one seems to be doing it.

I thought Tanahashi/Ishii was way too fucking even. Had I come in cold with no idea of either guy, I honestly don't think I'd've connected to any underdog story there. The crowd ate it up, the match was fun, and I can understand people more involved in the product marking out for the upset... but Ishii was kicking his ass every bit as much as vice versa... the match needed a lengthy, comfortable period of Tanahashi dominating, and it had nothing of the sort.

People definitely tried... but mat-work (I know you said submissions) has always came off better on tape, whereas the more visual spots obviously work better for the live crowd. With guys like Han, even old British wrestling, it was always far more visual and demonstrative. I remember OJ telling a story about seeing Yoshida live at one point and how it was worked for the cameras, or rather how much better it would've appeared on video. There's also a funny story I read about Jeff Beck (and, yes, this is a total aside) whereby he played a piece using almost exclusively harmonics or something, but the result was that it didn't actually sound like a guitar, and people didn't realise he was making this music, so the audience sat there confused/silent and he ended up exaggerating his arm movements when playing it to tell the audience that, yes, he was making these sounds. But there's only so "big" one can make counters before they lose all credibility, and the only companies who've really drew with mat-based styles have been exclusively so. There's also the fact that, whilst someone in the audience will not have been power bombed, or even body slammed, they can associate the pain with an idea of what it would be like, and therefore involve themselves more. You don't really get that with mat wrestling/submissions.

This was the worst Budokan in forever and I'm surprised anything got included. The Kobashi/Shiga v Akiyama/Kanemaru match was a lot of fun (though nothing I'd nominate for the set), Misawa/Doc bored the heck out of me, and this did nothing for me. I was always a mark for Gary and there's plenty of fine TV matches he had besides his debut, but I recall Taue and Takayama being awkward as hell and only exacerbated by Takayama being a few years away from anything good in this setting.

Sorry... but, yeah, what oj said. There's in ring highlights that have long been high on recommendations (LCO were always pimped hard and the cage match is one of the more famous matches of the entire decade) but a week-by-week news archive, particularly towards the summer, gets depressing rather quickly.

Her best match will be on the '99 set. * But 1997 is such a depressing year for Joshi on so many levels that you'll rarely find more than Rage in the Cage recommended... this yearbook bringing attention to a few overlooked matches is the best one can hope for.

When people would ask me what set All Japan on a different level to (especially) the top US guys of the same period, or for an "intro" match, I always used this. Structurally, it's basically Bret/Owen at WMX - the top guy shows he's better, overcomes a short control, only to then accidentally injure himself (which can be overdone - Danielson, especially, would do it all the time at one point) and give the other guy a big opening. Only this match, of course, is on an entirely different level (and the Harts match is still a classic). I'm not implying that Misawa and Kobashi watched the Mania match on a day off and thought "yeah, that'd work for us" or anything, and there are some differences beyond that they go in different directions for the finish, but rather that, for someone coming in cold, familiar with the Mania match, and the way the structures overlap, it's easier for people to see just what set these guys apart. Offence certainly comes into it - your opening sentence is absolutely on the money; the depths these guys had offensively on all levels from low-mid-level through to high-end-finishers is absolutely staggering - but this is a match that only these two guys could have worked; all their strengths are on show and at their peak. That it's been aped, or attempted to be aped, and unsuccessfully, by so many guys since, doesn't take away from just how breathtaking a match this is.

I just wish, for once, he'd do it with the guy using the ropes to get to their feet and timing it so they're in position when he kicks them. Ditto Booker T's/whomever's scissor kick when the guy stays hunched over, rather than collapsing to the ground and getting up hunched over in position. Are crowds really so slow as to need the guy to be chest-on-ropes for them to go "oh, 619!"?

Actually the stupidest headbutt spot he did would be a '93(?) match with Liger, which begins with him throwing Liger to the floor and doing it off the top rope to the floor within the first, what, 30 seconds or so? At least the TLC bump was to set up an injury angle and was a crucial spot of the match; the headbutt off the cage came at the climax, etc... but I digress. The point being, the flying headbutt is just a front bump; of all top rope finishers it's probably the safest on the guy hitting it: you have more of your body to break the fall than on splashes/moonsaults/legdrops/elbowdrops, etc... it's no worse than taking a press-slam->front-bump every match, and the biggest risk is winding yourself.

He didn't. He'd bring his forearms in and across his upper torso, spreading the impact, and turn his head to the side; ie, taking a standard front bump. Or, why missing a moonsault every match won't wreck your knees nearly as much as landing it will. No matter how defined someone's pecs may be it's no worse a headshot than a standard (and hardly Misawa-level) forearm to the neck. His habit of taking a superplex (whilst delivering it) and almost folding over for the "authenticity" in a double KO spot did far more damage, for instance.

There's not a great deal I can add here... she suffers in the '80s having Chigusa there, which would seem somewhat unfair of us were it not for the fact that the issues with her work are clear (and Dan's right on with that statement). I haven't watched the Kyoko feud in a while, but Kyoko was truly bumping her ass off in a way that almost becomes uncomfortable because she (Kyoko) is more talented than being a bumping prop (Jerome's comparison to Mike Awesome - with Kyoko as Tanaka - is fitting). And, by the time she came to ARSION, you had Yoshida there who was obviously great at what she did. That being said, I don't think Asuka is/was, by any means, bad per se, I didn't mind her brawling as a change of pace at first, and compared to someone like Hotta (who has similar issues) Asuka has the advantage of being a significantly bigger star in her pomp. She's just someone who it's better to dip into once in a while. I'd never object to her old Lorefice '80s rep as it gets people to watch Chigusa. And, for all the issues one might have with her work, the crowd and atmosphere will ensure it's never dull or unexciting, and you can kinda excuse her "must... do... offence" nature. But, as Jerome said, whereas with Chigusa the more I watch of her the more I think she might well have been the best Zenjo worker at the time, even more than Jaguar, Asuka does begin to wane on you.

With hindsight... maybe. In March of 1986? No way. That's not even "I saw Austin's future in 1991; I saw The Rock had it in 1996"...

Yup... and then what's maybe the best six man match ever a 15-minute walk away by the same company two days later.

The dates are slightly off... we get a 4hr time difference between GMT and ET for a few weeks with each switch.

Bret wasn't a big draw, but he was always a reliable decent-mid-level draw... hence him always getting the belt back in that era. More important was his resonance... hence the US vs. Canada/The World feud working as well as it did. I can't speak for the US, but his book-signing turn outs in the UK dwarfed the turn-outs for infinitely more "famous" people... it's no surprise that his DVDs sell in larger quantities than other guys'...

That stance doesn't particular bother me... and, if nothing else, at least he's honest about it. I mean, realistically, a business owner doesn't care if you love his product so long as you keep buying it, right? No promoter in the history of wrestling would take "this is the best show ever!" over asses in seats. If Misawa doesn't have a string of Budokan sellouts, if their style turned fans away, d'you think Baba would've let them keep pushing it as they did because he loved the matches? ** I do think there are elements of television writing that can help the product. Of course, we're talking good television writing here... which the WWE can't exactly attract. Nor do I think we can blame them too much if those stories of Vince tearing the sheet up of a Monday morning are true (and who doubts them?). It's also far easier for a guy to play "guest booker" and plan out this great angle over the span of six months leading to a superbly-built Mania main event... a few weeks in and one guy get's injured... or there's a drugs bust along the way... or a myriad of other factors. It's not as if a booker can draft/re-draft this perfectly plotted run of angles like he's writing a novel, then just hand it to the guys to execute and wait for the $$ to start rolling in. Like I said, I'd want some experienced television writers on hand. You need "wrestling people", of course... that's vital. The "writer" can then go over the logistics/order of the whole thing, keep the log of who's done what, etc... make sure it all makes sense from that perspective which "wrestling people" are (generally, one would figure) less liable to do. And, provided they remember that even the best actors in wrestling aren't as good as a soap opera actor... they can bring some fresher ideas to the table.

You thought Bret might've spent his time off watching tonnes of old NWA stuff and re-evaluated him? If anything... I'm kinda glad there's some wrestler of note who isn't "Flair's the man!", if only for that slight amount of variety.

It wasn't "necessary" in the sense of 6/94 vs. Kawada... but guys would frequently debut a new big move in a smaller setting. For instance, I'm pretty sure Kobashi debuted the Orange Crush on Akiyama in a six-man... maybe even on Omori. Doing it that way, you can build it up in the magazines and bring it out in a match where the finish is already obvious (Misawa was always going to win here), whereas, if he'd built it up ahead of a match with Jumbo, for instance, it telegraphs it too much - fans are smart enough to know it's gonna feature in the match, at/near the death, and so everything before it is flattened. John would have a better idea if this was the case here (that it was mentioned ahead of time: "Misawa having a big new move for the new year..."), but that was always my understanding of the theory behind it (and I saw the sense in it). The full match isn't much of anything, really, and it's pretty short too, though I know Ditch has it and it's almost certainly on YouTube as well. The spot was yearbook-worthy: the match itself was not.

Those NJ/AJ mags would be the 40th anniversary specials, right? I didn't see many wrestling magazines in shops, but they had a lot of I guess combo-mag/DVD sets (yellow) for Baba, Inoki, and other 60s/70s names... I have the AJ 40th anniversary mag with, obviously, Baba front and centre. (I think it was Y1500, but that was at a show rather than general retail). My guess is it's more a case of the older guys still have enough notoriety from the past to sell, whereas more recent stars don't. Wasn't the most frequent highlight in Misawa's obituaries his beating Jumbo?

Oh, I know... but it's still a pretty obvious case of a younger, green-ish guy who can bump and little else trying to take a few crazy ones to get over and Jumbo being happy to let him kill himself for no real reason. And if you're not going to really sell said bumps...

This. Ignoring the past is stupid, and ultimately it only insults your audience's intelligence. Putting over the length of Punk's title reign by saying "now he's surpassed Bret's longest reign, Austin's longest reign, Cena's longest reign, etc" works. Using older rivalries to further current ones works. Having guys suddenly friends when one turns face/heel and ignoring all their history as rivals is just stupid. I'm not sure if putting over Shawn as GOAT is necessarily a detriment to Cena... it's not as though Babe Ruth is killing baseball. But, yeah, the could certainly do with reminding people a tad less... though as a means of putting a guy over ("Are we watching the GOAT in Lionel Messi?" etc) it can work too.

Jumbo was much too generous here, if anything... I mean, for fuck's sake, he lets Foley get up from his finish *on the fucking concrete*, then right up from an even sicker apron bump, then not even bump off the high knee, before putting him away with the backdrop. I mean, Jesus, did Misawa ever survive even close to that much against him? That'd be like Misawa rolling out a TD '91, having Kobashi stagger up into a release TD'85, only to then have him feed up again into another spot to take it home. It's the Kobashi/Doc Backdrop finish at quadruple speed. If Foley doesn't get how All Japan was worked, that's one thing... and he's easily told otherwise. For Meltzer or anyone else it's an entirely different thing - I don't know how anyone can see this match as anything other than Foley wanting to get all his crazy bumps in, regardless of sense, and Jumbo being generous enough to let him.

Oh, I agree with most of that... it was more throwing an argument at the wall rather than my specifically making it. But in relation to the previous point about sponsors, yeah, my guess is they would, but... I do think it's somewhat unfair to attribute any sizeable blame on the company. The media played the steroid angle, etc... and 20 years of steroid abuse almost certainly played it's role in everything, but, and as scummy as the company can be... it's looking for someone to blame.

But how much of it can you really pin on WWE? I'm not saying the sponsors wouldn't have left, but we knew even less about concussions/etc then (it's one of the reasons we know as much now), there were few, if any, discernible signs in his ring work, and it's not like anyone in power will have been travelling with him constantly and around him all the time, with the possible exception of maybe Fit Finley and he's not "in power" anymore than he was a tad higher on the chain, etc. And short of showing up at the PPV with blood on his hands (and would he have been allowed on the flight in the first place?), they'll've been none-the-wiser before sending him out there or until the stories broke. Really, there's no reason to think the exact same thing wouldn't have happened had he never gone to WWE. He'd've still met Nancy, he was abusing steroids for years before he got there (the only time he toned down was around 1993, early 1994 when the trial was at it's height... look at his body from 8/92, through the J-Cup, and then again by the Jr. Tag League), he'd've been working probably an even more hard-hitting and reckless style... and there's no reason to presume he would've cut down on the steroids... I mean, realistically, one could feasibly argue that they (the WWE) actually prolonged his life, depending on how much you want to pin on the schedule as opposed to steroids/concussions...

Which is weird in itself in that you figure he hardly needed to restrain her first to be able to strangle her.