Matt D

Earnest post and it deserves a response, and probably better than the general one I'm going to give. I love "Learned Psychology" too, and think it's probably the very best thing of this age of oversaturation. It's why Punk will be on my list, as much as anything else, and why I'll be higher than almost anyone on Christian. Really, all of the modern WWE workers I have will be on there, in part, for being good at that. It's a hugely important part of TV matches. With Kofi, however, I feel like we see the strings far too clearly. Some of that has to do with who he has been paired with the most, but only part. There's an art to that level of creativity and continuity in match layout, but it has to be mixed with spontaneity and believability in execution. Maybe it's Kofi's physical grace. Maybe it's a side effect of his specific moves and the level of cooperation involved with some of them, but I see the strings too clearly in his matches. They come off as more choreographed than the people who work in that specific element who will fall on my list. It never feels natural and organic to me. It's a fine line and he doesn't even come close to making it onto the right side, to me. I get what you're saying and I can go on that trip with other wrestlers, and do gladly, but not with Kofi.

Judy Martin from my microscope thread. "No Class" Bobby Bass per various old Wrestling Cultures, this post on DVDVR, and something Dylan will add in to fill in the gap.

I have them three apart. That may change. Bret is higher.

Personally, it doesn't matter at all to me, except for in thinking how much easier Flair had it relative to the type of guys Bryan had to face. Flair jokes about 2-3 terrible wrestlers he had to face as champion, and even those were good enough or had certain tools that made them a top guy in a territory that drew X number of people on a loop. To me, Flair's greatest strength and his greatest weakness are the same thing, total and utter conviction in the idea of Ric Flair. He's not someone who would look under the hood because he was the absolute. He defined what good wrestling was so it became a self-referential loop. That's evident in his work and it's one reason why he's so engrossing. His belief was off the chart. His "method" was the easiest thing in the world, because he was Ric Flair and there was nothing he wanted more than to be Ric Flair. Bryan thought and occasionally overthought things. There was a match between he and Punk where they cycled in a spot from some recent MMA fight. This wasn't a a house show where they were just having fun. It was either on a Raw or (I think) on PPV, for the World title. I'm sure Dave probably loved in for how "topical" it was, but it's the sort of thing Flair would have never done, because he would have thought that what he was providing anyway, the Ric Flair package, was worth more than that in the first place. And there are pros and cons to that approach. That's the biggest difference between the two to me, though. Bryan looked under the hood. Sometimes that was a good thing. Sometimes it wasn't. (And in his last run he absolutely didn't, so that's interesting too). Flair felt he didn't have to and that confidence is evident in his work.

That's a dangerous slippery slope, especially re: let's say Cena and Arn Anderson.

I strongly disagree with this still. I think it's much different for a relatively undersized, technical babyface to win with these. To me, as a kid, and even now, it came off as Bret being "technical." He was skilled enough to lock in quick roll ups out of nowhere and what have you. That fit his gimmick very well and made him seem more clever and more dangerous in a wrestling sense, as if he could beat you more ways than someone like Hogan, who was only going to win with the Legdrop. Bret could win with "Wrestling."

No.

Have you been watching Buddy Rose at all, Parv?

I will not have Bossman above Dibiase, in case anyone was concerned.

The problem is that he was booked as a coward out of the gate. Fans were turning on him for the first time. I think a Kane feud made a lot of sense on paper. This didn't: I think it's extremely obvious in retrospect and it's been written in the Observer and elsewhere that Bryan was only getting the reluctant nod so that Lesnar could destroy him at Mania on the path to the eventual Reigns win. He was going to be a transitional champion.

Now someone tie this information to explain Adam Rose's main roster debut.

Or this:

This was linked off of the CNN.com main page: Kevin Dunn Executive Producer $4.8 million George Barrios Chief Financial and Strategy Officer $4.5 million Michelle Wilson Chief Revenue and Marketing Officer $4.5 million Vince McMahon Chairman and CEO $3.3 million Paul "Triple H" Levesque Executive Vice President of Talent, Live Events and Creative $3.1 million

You'd need the big names in matches people haven't seen. There are a couple of Andre matches, vs Spoiler and Stasiak I think. There's Harley vs Gino for the title. There's the Duggan/Dibiase cage match. There's the RnR vs Midnights match that was new to us, I think? There's a couple of Jake matches to choose from. One Dusty (Maybe the Lewin one, but the Funk vs Lewin one could be better), one JYD vs Reed. You want at least one Guerrero (or Guerreros) match to pay up on the name and there are a lot to choose from. That's the way I'd go. Then try to get someone to do liner notes to give everything some context and show the importance. Maybe see if JR or Cornette would push it on his podcast, that kind of thing.

What resonates with me the most is when he's selling a beating on the floor, maybe between falls, or just in the midst of a beatdown, and he's leaning on the apron. Sometimes a kid will come up and interact with him. I've seen it a few times now and it's just transcendent somehow, like he's channeling a higher level of wrestling reality that no one else can reach.

He is my first heart over brains candidate.

Cena having great tag team matches with The Shield and others and being a surprisingly good FIP, as Phil Rippa pointed out today, gets him a point. This, apparently, does not get JBL one:

There's such a discrepancy between him as a babyface and a heel.

He's in my top 20. I have 3-4 above him, depending on how you classify Rey.

Cubsfan posted this comment yesterday: 6) Ephesto, Luciferno, Mephisto © bBlue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther [MEX TRIOS] 13:24. Hijo del Infierno took 2/3 in a very good match. Hijos del Infierno 3rd defense Main event is the match worth watching; they worked very hard and they had the usual Blue Panther creativity in match layout. Someone actually on twitter should try to get him to expand those thoughts a little. It's not something that's been talked about here at all.

Chris Masters is the best ex-WWF Star Who Will Be Brought in to a Local Indy That Is Not a Super Workrate Indy ever. There's a range. On one end is Brutus Beefcake. On the other is Chris Masters. In TV matches, I don't think there's a huge gap between his best babyface work and that of the holy trinity to be honest.

Big Show needs +1 for moonsault

If I feel up to pulling apart another Henry match, I'll likely end up with a Show vs Henry one, and then i'd look at all the things Show does well too. Not sure though. The first one didn't exactly move mountains and I'm on borrowed time.

Guys I couldn't place right now that I might want to place: Joe, Ki, Styles, Saint, McManus, Dutch Mantel, Matt Hardy, Gino Hernandez, Perro Sr., Super Astro, Van Buyten, Jack Brisco (don't think I'm getting to him), Destroyer (kind of gave up there), Scorpio, Little Guido, Tajiri. I'm sure there's more. I'm not quite there with Rudge, for instance. Or Jones.

For me it's more about guys who I know should be there but I need to see if I can see enough footage in time.