Matt D

There was a moment there where I thought WWE had actually followed up from yesterday. It was the moment where Becky saw someone with a “Man” shirt on the way down and went nuts for it and it was real and awesome and endearing and electric. And then they ruined it like they always do.

They could have gotten away with a beatdown on Carmella and a promo and Bianca reacting and been 100% fine.

Those absolute morons.

This is worth writing hundreds and hundreds of words about.

For every Funk/Race there are ten matches where he gave the whole match. Way more than a 1:1 ratio.

FCW only ever worked because Dusty was on commentary.

Byrne’s stuff is ok but it feels like a poor draft for the Stern run that follows.

I don't really know how you do it. As a rule, I hate the 3 minute Florida clips with a passion as a sign of what we don't have. I think it'd be more fair to all of us to have nothing than to have these.

I'm just half watching this now. Just tuned in. I doubt this will hold up as a greater hole but I like some of the little moments here and there: eyepokes or feints or Owens just seeing Ricochet near him and whacking his head into the rail. Though for every little thing I like, you get a moment like Rollins and Morrison standing and holding the ladder, waiting for Owens to get them (even if they tried to justify it with the kick; it didn't work in execution).

Who's seen the most of Buddy's 87-89 PNW? Has anyone seen the Windy City tapings from 89? What about his 91-92 PNW? How about his 1992 WCCW work from Canada. Did any of that make tape? And do we have any of his 85 Florida?

Cesaro is docked five spots on every list for doing the Davey Richards superplex spot.

I like Super Astro as a Saint comparison if we’re going lucha. Though I wonder how people feel about Hechicero as a more modern choice. He’s obviously more of a rudo version. Rene Ben Chemoul is the guy in the French footage who reminds me the most of him.

The Benoit matches were the killer, because he’d spend the entire head working a limb and RVD would drop it the second he started a comeback. It was just a huge waste of time. It’s one thing to switch off of some incidental or transitory or control limb work but when it’s the meat of the match, it’s problematic. That said, I’ve come to almost hold it against Benoit more than RVD. On a national stage, if your opponent isn’t interested in paying off that story or simply isn’t able to do so, it’s up to you as the heel calling the match to do something that will pay off in a worthwhile manner.

As a kid in 91-92, he was like a Sting you could watch every day.

He’s cheating on a meta-textual level.

Nothing screws up a wrestling company quite like this.

I guess the good news is that I have 4+ years to get this out of my system, because I'm not even sure how to engage with you guys at this point. I'd like to disqualify post 2010 Lesnar from consideration because he uses German Suplexes as punches, which is hugely unfair, breaks the very concept of wrestling narrative for a cheap thrill, and makes him uniquely incomparable in the history of wrestling. It's like putting a Harlem Globetrotter into the NBA hall of fame. You can do it, and maybe even you should, but... At the least, maybe you can rank him in your top 25 as Brock Lesnar*.

It's a fine use for your 100 slot I guess? Though mine will probably be more punitive.

Really in the weeds here, but I think the set up to the match was a net positive. It gave Eddie his moment, explained why Brock wouldn't continue to chase Eddie for a rematch, and set up a dream match so big and so heated that you needed Austin as special ref. Everything worked and, while I know looking back, people can get frustrated at Goldberg being there, at the time, there was such a sense of "I can't believe it. They actually did it! They gave him the belt!" and if Goldberg's interference and setting up the match was how they were going to justify it, most of us watching were just so happy that they WANTED to justify something like that in the first place. We were overjoyed that they needed to set up a Goldberg vs Brock program and that meant that Eddie could get the belt. I think most of us watching at the time were over the top excited for Goldberg's arrival; it had been rumored as a possibility and the second he showed up, we knew that Eddie could actually be winning. I don't think we can judge it against the match ultimately failing because everything they had to do here was a success. It was things that happened later that made it not work.

I mean, the run-in was necessary because Goldberg vs Brock was envisioned as a bigger dream match and a bigger draw for Mania than Eddie, as the underdog, surviving Angle. Eddie vs Brock served Goldberg vs Brock, not the other way around. Eddie vs Brock was the means to get to Goldberg vs Brock more so than Goldberg costing the belt was the means to ending the Eddie vs Brock feud. I get that you guys think the match would be better without it, but the entire point of the match was to set up the Goldberg vs Brock program.

We watched a Buddy Rose tag a week or two ago and that was fun because you could see what he might have been like as an ethnic fiery babyface working a total American style in the 80s, but it was just a good TV match. Plus it's pre-transformation Tenryu, though it's a good example of that (sumo strikes, rolling cradle, etc.) transposed into a different environment. It makes you think that Tenryu might have actually worked better in the states as a babyface, weirdly enough.

Show your work.

Again, totally get where you're coming from. I think a lot of it is just watching this stuff chronological and seeing how he compares relatively. He brings certain different things to the table and uses some of the same things differently. He comes off as a fairly selfish worker to me, but certainly an effective one. Honestly, this just means we need to get more people watching the footage and commenting on it as there's no baseline in reviews, just a few data points between you and us.

"Like" is an interesting word. I respect him. I am impressed by him. I think he understood how to play to the camera and the crowd and get himself over better than any of the other stylists in the footage so far. There's something to that. I think there's something less pure to it, but I also don't think it's been terribly detrimental to his matches as of yet either. Ben Chemoul has an element of it as well, but that's more of a showman's flash, whereas with Carpentier, it's more manipulative and "working." He was able to present himself as a star through his mannerisms and ring-work. That he understands this and so few of the people around him seem to, it gives him a massive advantage which he presses to the fullest and it makes him stand out. It's impossible to deny, but I'm not at all sure I like it, if that makes sense.

I get where you're coming from, but it's not about Andre being one of the best French heavyweights, but instead about Andre being a passable French heavyweight, because the issue at hand isn't about French heavyweights in general, but about the total picture of Andre.