Matt D

Shawn was a shithead as a Rocker, both in what he did in ring and in his perceptions of what he didn't get.

This is interesting. You're arguing reverse hypotheticals. 1.) We have a lot of proof that Martel, in his prime, was a mediocre heel. (I wouldn't say bad) 2.) We have no proof how Steamboat or Santana would be as heels. 3.) There are a multitude of wrestlers who were good at being heel and being face because understanding one helps in understanding the other and wrestling is wrestling and the talents are not mutually exclusive (though some are). We've had points here where people argue "well, if wrestler x just had the opportunity to do y, then..." What you're saying is that we shouldn't hold what Martel did with his opportunity against him, relative to other similar workers, because they never had the opportunity to do the same thing, which is something that I think no one's argued about anyone up til this point.

The difference with Martel, relative to Rey is that we have years of Martel's heel work on tape. It was in his mid 30s which is when most wrestlers are at their best. We have a bunch of matches against a number of opponents of all stripes, both TV and arena. We have long matches, short matches, tag matches, matches in Japan (see below), matches against great wrestlers, matches against terrible wrestlers, matches in well remembered feuds, matches in embarrassing feuds. Rey was a heel for a very short period of time. Also, it's not just the fact Martel was in the WWF because he has a number of strong matches as a babyface there. I don't know. I think it's very hard to outright dismiss Martel's heel work. It's not like he didn't get the opportunities. I get dismissing late era Flair. This is much harder to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akHUSxbqk6s

The issue with Steamboat vs Martel is that Martel's heel work drags him down, no? On topic, I would think Hijo del Santo would have to be considered on a best babyface list.

People like to be a part of something and you can never be as part of something as in the moment it's happening. I think some people would rather be part of something that's happening that they don't enjoy and feel that sense of community and belonging than experience something that they actually enjoy something that's lapsed or that doesn't have the same instant social fix.

I think I've read here by people who have a semi-professional interest in getting twitter followers that you almost HAVE to live tweet Raw. That it's when you'll have the most eyes on your "content." I also imagine the reaction shows are some of the most popular on the podcast feed, though I don't know that to be certain.

I think they're called "Twitter Users."

Flair reading his texts is another one of those hugely jarring things you'd never hear on any other podcast. He's like your mother trying to use technology.

To be fair-ish, he's been shown with them backstage offering them advice and congratulating them a few times, so it's not totally out of the blue. Now, that he's in that role in the first place is a different story, but looking at the roster, there aren't many other babyface veterans who could play that role. For active wrestlers, not hurt, I don't think there are any, actually.

I think a counterpoint would be someone presenting a bunch of poor short matches. I think he was just in a position to have less of those sorts of matches than other people.

I know what I'd do with mine. You're catching a match now and again between drunk podcast appearances, Hulu Raw, and being in A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum so you're not experiencing it every day but the anticipation to see what the new match will be is worth half the price of admission. It hits that surprise "kid opening a pack of cards" sweet spot.

You know, I'm not one to praise Dibiase a lot because it gives Parv a big head, but he's a guy who really could project to the last row too, and make things feel important. I will give him credit for that.

Really looking forward to the Duggan vs Reed Cage main event on that one.

That's a good start, but I haven't seen a ton of Silver King either. Someone else suggest some more please.

Well, Buddy vs Lothario is the best 2:30 minute match you'll see this week. I like how the early missed roundhouse led to Buddy taking over and then there was a call back for the finish but if the new match announced each night is like opening a set of baseball cards, then I think our pack was missing a few tonight.

I just want some Nick Bockwinkel matches already. I'm curious about Steamboat being on the banner when we don't seem to have any results for him, mind you, but there are results we don't have going back into the 70s certainly.

Knobbs was pretty hilarious this week.

That's not unfair, but I think it's a stretch. There's stuff I've liked certainly, both whole matches, and portions of matches, but when you add in this particular narrative and the way it's generally executed, I have a hard time with it given everything else. At least, I think that's the case.

Good spot. In fact, I indicated as such above. I'm going to quote the whole post. So, if you parse that, I'm giving him credit for the same thing I give Demolition credit for. I said I respected it and that it was even remarkable for how impressive it is. To me, the end result in Hansen japan matches is less in the form of shine/heat/comeback, though. The end result becomes sort of a constant back and forth motion, an ebb and flow, something more circular instead of something with act breaks and escalation between them. The match doesn't crystallize in the same palatable way. Matches don't necessarily have to have that format, BUT in a situation with such organic storytelling, I think it helps for me to enjoy it. Otherwise, it's becomes a lot of noise to me. I don't for a second take away from what Hansen does, though. I think it's hugely impressive. It just becomes a little overwhelming to me, because I don't necessarily feel like it changes gears in the same way. I probably wouldn't like Demolition in Japan either, and as I said, I've quite liked the Hansen I've seen OUT of Japan.

I'm mainly talking All Japan tags in the 80s and what I've seen of him in the 90s. I am not going back to the 75 Destroyer match for this. You guys get three. I'll watch that Taue match once I can snag it. To rephrase what I mean when I say I'm not super interested in his stuff, it's that I get the sense that Hansen just puts his head down and charges forward at his opponent for twenty minutes, and it's then up to his opponent to survive the charge and/or find a way to negate it. That's the narrative of almost every Hansen match I've seen the 80s and 90s in Japan, and even when done well, that's not something that excites me. I get why people like it. I can admit it's well done, but it doesn't interest me much. I could be wrong though.

I've seen the Andre match a bunch of times. I like it fine but more as the exception, not the rule. That taue one doesn't seem to be on youtube or dailymotion at a quick glance. I can check other sources later though.

Landell and Madril have really fun chemistry.

Tharpe said he had early Piper. Curious about that.

I think it'll be a good amount of the same but name me three matches to watch from the era and give me a week and a half. I haven't done full write ups so it doesn't matter if I've already seen them.

My favorite thing about Christian was how he would switch up the entry points to his offense.