Matt D

Knobbs was pretty hilarious this week.

That's not unfair, but I think it's a stretch. There's stuff I've liked certainly, both whole matches, and portions of matches, but when you add in this particular narrative and the way it's generally executed, I have a hard time with it given everything else. At least, I think that's the case.

Good spot. In fact, I indicated as such above. I'm going to quote the whole post. So, if you parse that, I'm giving him credit for the same thing I give Demolition credit for. I said I respected it and that it was even remarkable for how impressive it is. To me, the end result in Hansen japan matches is less in the form of shine/heat/comeback, though. The end result becomes sort of a constant back and forth motion, an ebb and flow, something more circular instead of something with act breaks and escalation between them. The match doesn't crystallize in the same palatable way. Matches don't necessarily have to have that format, BUT in a situation with such organic storytelling, I think it helps for me to enjoy it. Otherwise, it's becomes a lot of noise to me. I don't for a second take away from what Hansen does, though. I think it's hugely impressive. It just becomes a little overwhelming to me, because I don't necessarily feel like it changes gears in the same way. I probably wouldn't like Demolition in Japan either, and as I said, I've quite liked the Hansen I've seen OUT of Japan.

I'm mainly talking All Japan tags in the 80s and what I've seen of him in the 90s. I am not going back to the 75 Destroyer match for this. You guys get three. I'll watch that Taue match once I can snag it. To rephrase what I mean when I say I'm not super interested in his stuff, it's that I get the sense that Hansen just puts his head down and charges forward at his opponent for twenty minutes, and it's then up to his opponent to survive the charge and/or find a way to negate it. That's the narrative of almost every Hansen match I've seen the 80s and 90s in Japan, and even when done well, that's not something that excites me. I get why people like it. I can admit it's well done, but it doesn't interest me much. I could be wrong though.

I've seen the Andre match a bunch of times. I like it fine but more as the exception, not the rule. That taue one doesn't seem to be on youtube or dailymotion at a quick glance. I can check other sources later though.

Landell and Madril have really fun chemistry.

Tharpe said he had early Piper. Curious about that.

I think it'll be a good amount of the same but name me three matches to watch from the era and give me a week and a half. I haven't done full write ups so it doesn't matter if I've already seen them.

My favorite thing about Christian was how he would switch up the entry points to his offense.

That's not necessarily opposite to what I'm saying. I'm just saying I'm not enthused by that particular narrative.

Some. Enough that I wasn't rushing to see more. It was exhausting in a bad way.

I meant the fact that I was super weird. But, it stems from the fact I like matches with broader and deeper selling more than hard hitting, face crashing affairs. From what I've seen of Japan Hansen, I'm fine with the stuff where he's really dominant, but that's about it. I like how he tends to sell outside of Japan better. He's one of the most naturally logical wrestlers I've ever seen, as in, you watch his matches and think "Yeah, okay, this is what would happen," and it has this intrinsic logic in a way that I appreciate in other wrestlers and respect in him, where it's more driven by action than thought, where all other options are sort of squeezed out so that there's really only one way it could go. I just don't always dig that one way. It's remarkable, though. Absolutely. It's just not for me.

It's a fair argument.

I like Hansen outside of Japan so much more than in Japan.

When people screw up the timing on a hot tag. I just watched the Mojo/Ryder vs Samson/Whoever tag from NXT from last month and Zack was playing FIP. Samson puts his head down, gets face crushed to the mat. Zack catches his balance and dives across the ring, and it was probably more realistic than selling more, and putting some drama into it and building up the moment, but if he had done that, it would have been a thousand times better. It doesn't need to be a simultaneous tag or anything. I'm not saying that. He just needed to milk the moment for a little more, hell, a lot more. He had to make it seem like a struggle, like it mattered. He had to take even just a few seconds and use his body language to build himself towards that corner. The entire point of a face-in-peril is to build to that moment. Pay it off right. It's not rocket science.

Wagner, Jr. in the mid 00s was so good at projecting to the entire crowd and amazing at telegraphing his moves in a good way, in setting the stage for them so that they mattered. The problem is that he took it too far and could be an absolute ham when something like, I don't know, selling, would make more sense.

The single best part of the match was the uppercut in the corner. I do think things went a little long in the tooth as things went on (not that it was long but the dramatic moment kind of fizzled after Lothario got the chain after a great heat and comeback) but it's a huge testament that the crowd didn't think so. They were hot for everything.

I totally got a Memphis vibe from Gordman vs Lothario too. I could have used a bit more chain hiding, but it was a blast. The super hot crowd helped.

You are a scholar and a gentleman. Now watch the battle royal and decide who's right about the Valentine vs Brody bits.

I think they're a team that are really helped by the footage explosion of the last ten years.

And I was disagreeing with the fact that you went to a sports comparison with it when that's not really accurate.

Generally, I think the people who DON'T care are the ones who put it in those terms. That was my argument, so if the person's framing it that way, then he's missing the point and sort of raising a strawman.

I don't think we need to go around this circle again, but no one who cares about the latter part of a wrestler's career thinks about it in sports terms, except for MAYBE in the sense of that great journeyman catcher, Jake Taylor, but even that... y'know, fiction.

I think it was on an Exile on Badstreet where someone made the argument than 1989 Bushwhackers were bigger STARS than 1989 Flair.

Some of those will be false positives from his son. You're right, and the Million Dollar Man search would give false positives for Steve Austin.