Matt D

I was thinking the same thing.

I watched as much AWA TV as I could find, all the way into 86-87 or so. Full years, really. When I got to 88-89, it was available, but I just gave up.

Portland - Martel vs Wiskowski - 2/3 Falls - July 12, 1980 Buddy is sent to the back at the beginning. They start with a cool criss cross I haven't seen before where Wiskowki falls vertically and Martel runs over him the long way before going down into a Wiskowski headlock base. Martel hopes out with rope running and a headscissors but crashes hard into the ropes/corner on a body press and Wiskowski puts it back on. Second hope spot is rope-running, two leapfrogs and a sunset flip but Wiskowski kicks out and slaps on a headlock takeover and another headlock. Third hope spot is Martel turning it into a top wristlock but he ends up in a headscissors. He headstands out, but Wiskowki is right on him in the corner. He dismantles Martel for a minute and then goes for a suplex but Martel counters with a front facelock and reverses it into a suplex of his own. Wiskowki hangs on to the facelock though and Martel sells it huge. Martel gets back to his feet but Wiskowski is grinding the hell out of the headlock. This is slow steady stuff, a lot of jockeying for position. Martel hits another suplex but Wiskowski doesn't let go. It's almost like a reverse cravat here. It's a little dubious, selling-wise, but it's really just hanging on and I'm generally okay with it, especially because on the third one he finally breaks it and takes over for a moment with a backbreaker. Martel puts his head down and pays for it, but reverses again soon after and fires away on Wiskowksi in the corner. Martel puts on a headlock of his own but gets a back suplex for his trouble. Ed goes up to the top rope, hits the swandive headbutt and that's the first fall. Basic but well-worked stuff. Good heel-driven first fall. Ed starts the second fall with a full on cravat. Martel bodyslams out but sells his head and back. Ed gets up selling his own back, just enough for Martel to fight back against the ropes. He's still groggy enough that Wiskowki recovers, punches him down and puts on a leaning chinlock. Martel fights out and goes for a cross body block but gets caught and slammed and knee-dropped. Wiskowki covers but Martel gets both knees up and claps them on his head, taking back over. This is pretty back and forth. Martel beats on him a bit and goes for another cover but this time Wiskowki does the head clap. Martel reverses a pile driver. They do some more stuff. Martel puts on an abdominal stretch. Wiskowki flips out of it. This has a lot of action but none of it means all that much. Martel finally targets in on the back. Wiskowki goes for a sort of lame dropkick, gets caught and Martel puts it into the crab but Wiskowki gets to the ropes. Sandy bar steps on him since he's only touching it and Portland is weird that way but he pulls himself back. Wiskowki gets an eye poke in, tosses Martel into the corner. Martel reverses it, hits a 'rana into a pin and that's the fall. This wasn't what I'd call a great fall. The come out quick with the third fall with Martel getting the advantage and a few near falls. Wiskowki does a roll up out of the corner, with tights but just gets a two count. Martel does a couple of weirdly missing dropkicks the second one hitting Barr in a weird but kind of interesting visual. Then Wiskowki hits this great elbow on Martel while he's on all fours then hits a headbutt off the second rope onto the back of Martel's had. While he's going up, Barr calls for the bell saying that he was pulled into the dropkick. Martel retains the belt. This had good action at times and some good storytelling here and there but ultimately, I don't think it was a great match, just like I don't think that Martel vs Race from the very end of 79 was a great match. The Rose matches absolutely are. I think that says more about Rose than Martel in 1980.

88 JCP is a total blind spot to me. I just went to Graham's list and scanned for names that were there for any decent amount of time that would make sense. Brad Armstrong made some sense to me too. Or even Sullivan who could have had fun with it was an outlet for spreading his message. He'd want to keep the belt so he had TV time each week, etc.

Who'd be better, Al Perez or Rotunda?

You have to remember that in late 93-early 94, business was so bad that they were advertising little tiny bumpkin house shows on Raw, not with a list at the bottom of the screen but worked right into the main commentary of Raw, not in the old syndicated way. Some of the shows they spent a decent amount of time talking about surprised me.

Especially when it's your audience, the people who give you your livelihood, your flock.

Kotter aged great. It's all about wordplay and Marx Brothers' influence.

That wasn't a typical crowd but both they and the announcers were into it. That said, Titus got a pretty big bark chant last week when people thought he'd be the one to hit his finisher at the end of Raw.

I'm about an hour and change into this and my biggest take away is that I'm excited for Charles to see more Buddy Rose. Also, the PR set feels like a surprise announcement in some way and I'm looking forward to it.

No idea how that double post happened. Sorry. Since it was mentioned:

Definitely a fair podcast, though I do think the goalposts move a bit but that's on both sides and with a lack of clarity. Flair beats Bret in a GOAT poll to me. Flair beats Bret in a "who has the more impressive career" poll. I like Bret's idea of what a wrestling match should be and and how he follows through on it better than Flair's. So it's all about how you define the question I think. BUT that's not important. What's important is that this was an unquestionably fair podcast. Neither here nor there, I think an interesting counter to Flair's week that was brought up would be June 12-13, 1993. Obviously the scope of what Flair did is bigger but Bret had the 40 minute Backlund match which I think is really good, and then the three matches the next night with both the Bam Bam and Perfect matches being really good and all fairly different. I wish we had more of the Luger single matches from that June too.

When does that new era start? Patera was effective in the early 80s in the AWA and then as a heel with Heenan in WWF as a key part of the Andre feud until his arrest. How effective is Koloff after, what, 86? That basically gives him two-three years into "new era" on Patera.

To me, there always seemed like an instability to WCW's house shows, and back to JCP's as well I suppose. Anecdotally, am I alone in this or is there a sense that Crocket/Turner advertised matches that were different than what the shows actually looked like?

For a long time, I thought it wasn't wrestled in the context of the storyline so I can see someone not liking it. I do like it now though. The Toronto house show match in February - where I saw Steamboat show the hatred you'd expect him to have after getting his larynx crushed, only for his temper to cost him - was the missing piece that made me appreciate WM more. WM3 doesn't look as good if you think the storyline is Steamboat getting his hands on Savage for the first time since the injury. But yes, this is a good choice. My main issue with it is more for what it inspired fifteen years later, which is hardly fair at all.

Does anyone not like Savage/Steamboat?

It was confusingly effective.

I thought she was great in the Dusty segment last week.

Ok I missed Raw for various reasons tonight, including new fall TV. This is one time that by reading the results alone I have no idea what they were going for in the main event. I'll catch it tomorrow, but in the mean time, yeah, someone explain to me what the mindset behind that is? Is Trips trying to put one over on people? Is he afraid of the face roster? Was he trying to tire them out? Was he punishing the Shield for losing to Bryan too much? Is he trying too hard to come off as the "Cool boss."

There's a Jack Hart vs Hector Guerrero match from Florida that I really liked when I saw it.

I am ranked #8.

I wonder if anyone would dislike Martel vs Funk from PR. That's sort of my go to match for people who are casual if I want to show them something wildly enjoyable.

Hey, Johnny, guess what no one wanted to know? That. Anyway, this will be fun. I'll be curious to see what you guys think is the best WWF blue cage era match. I actually sort of like most of the big Hogan cage matches for some reason. I think he was able to use it to play to his strengths, but I haven't seen most in forever.

Jumbo vs Orton, Jr. - 4/75 There is a lot of late 80s or AWF easily available. I wanted to watch something older but maybe not THIS old. This is from 75 so Orton's 25 or so. Opening chain wrestling is pretty good if minimal. Orton's smooth but not exactly expressive. The early headlock base is fairly well done. It looks good with Orton wrenching and them working well in and out of it of, never staying too long in one position. Orton keeps hanging on though. Best of these is a top-wristlock test of strength and here Orton's facial expressions are better. Once he stops losing he hits a quick drop toehold and moves back into the headlock. Jumbo finally escapes and slaps on an Indian Deathlock. Orton's selling is pretty emotive here. The beginning must have been a blip. Jumbo turns it into a bow and arrow pretty effortlessly for a few seconds. They reset and each guy dives for a leg and trades waistlocks, including Jumbo doing this really deep one which leads to him seating Orton up on the top rope. It looked impressive at least. Jumbo hits a pretty fireman's carry takeover and grabs and arm but Orton's back up. They're trading stuff 1 to 1. Shoulder block to armdrag. It ends with Jumbo getting the upper hand and Orton begging off. Now it's Jumbo's turn for the headlock and he does these driving elbows to the skull. Orton shrugs him off, eats a shoulder tackle and a dropkick before begging off. Jumbo'll have nothing to do with it and hits a neckbreaker for a two count before going back to the headlock. It's a little weird they've gone back to the base like this but with Jumbo in charge. They do the shoulder tackle again but this time Orton goes to the dropkick but misses. Back to the grounded headlock. Lots of cute parallels in this match. Orton has interesting ways to try to get out: turning into the pin, multiple knees to the skull. They're keeping it engaging at least, but I'm not sure it's what i want for this part of the match. Finally Jumbo runs him head first into the corner and they start trading blows. Orton gets the better with a few knees and hits a suplex, goes for a pin, and hits a slam but then misses a big elbow. Orton ends up in an abdominal stretch, but hiptosses his way out. Jumbo goes for the headlock again but this time Orton hits a belly to back for a two count. Give the match, that probably should have been the finish. This time Orton hits the drop kick for another two count. Another Orton headlock leads into late, late match rope running and a reverse monkey flip by Jumbo. Jumbo hits the butterfly suplex for the win. Well, I think what they did was well-excuted and all of it was interested. The parallels gave at least the illusion of storytelling though maybe not storytelling itself. It was a little disjointed but I think you can easily tell that Orton was pretty talented at 25.