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Everything posted by KB8
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These Worldwide crowds are insane. Just consistent, ballistic heat; obviously more so when your Dustys and Flairs are in there, but it's not just a star power thing. Every episode from around this period has some of the best crowds ever in wrestling. It's very awesome. This was also a wonderful little five minutes. It's a hyper-condensed southern style tag but they made the absolute most of every second. Flair flopping as he tries to make the tag, Dusty kissing both Baby Doll and Garvin, Arn's look of pure hatred when he finally gets the tag, Dusty's incredible double punch combo to Flair and Arn in the corner; everything they did was on the money. Great finish as well. I pretty much adored every second of this. What a fucking roll Crockett was on at this point.
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We are truly blessed that, nearly 35 years down the line, we can go back and watch Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson wrestle on TV just about every week. Crockett was next level in '86. This was only about eight minutes but it was a ridiculously fun Tully performance, which was pretty much his average around this point. You knew 2002 Tim Duncan was giving you 25 and 12 on a nightly basis. It was an inevitability and at a certain point became an accepted part of our lived existence. Death, taxed and Timmy Duncan. That's basically Tully in 1986 (with none of the geniality or respectable disposition). Mike Jackson is always rock solid - the late-career Timmy Duncan of enhancement talent? - and if you stick him in there was a proper foil you're usually getting something decent. He wasn't in the mood for Tully's horse shit and I guess Tully noticed this and decided to be an even bigger dickhead than usual. After Jackson won the first couple exchanges Tully tripped him off a clean break, just a total high school P.E. bully move by a guy who can't stand things not going his way. Then Tully backs him into the corner and slaps him across the face. Jackson is pissed and rips the straps down like Lawler in the Coliseum, so Tully bolts outside and has a good laugh to himself. We always talk about Arn being a guy who can flip that switch and go from bumbling stooge to stone cold killer, but Tully is equally great at going from shit-eating weasel to relentless hunter. He's not as methodical as Arn, where he'll pick a body part and go to work. It feels more vicious though, in part because it looks like he's enjoying himself in a way Arn rarely seems to. Arn ripping your shoulder apart is a means to an end but Tully will splat you on the concrete because it's amusing to him. The way he lost the plot after Jackson kicked him in the mouth was sensational. The sneer, the way he checked his lip for blood, how you knew right there the fun was over. It was like a cat toying with a mouse, then the mouse bit back and had to be put out its misery.
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Is it time we start a dialogue on Sam Houston? He'd been pushed as Dusty and Magnum's protege for about half a year by this point, they clearly had plans for him as he'd recently won the Mid-Atlantic title on TV...and then about a year later he was up in the WWF. And apparently he spent four years there but I would not have guessed that. He sort of faded into obscurity, basically. Which may have been a crying shame because he was starting to put it together nicely, really coming along as a fiery underdog babyface, and by golly he looked like the bee's knees here. Did somebody miss the boat big time on Sam Houston? This started out with Arn fully on his own bullshit, first mowing Houston down with a big shoulder tackle - which Houston awesomely flip bumped off of - then opening the ropes for him in case our young cowboy wanted to cut bait before being humiliated. Arn is obviously all googly-eyed when Houston cartwheels out the way of a punch and connects with his own, and I love how Houston held the ropes open in case Arn decided HE wanted to cut bait. The angle late in '85 where the Andersons and Tully break Houston's arm is tremendous, so I loved Arn taking control by just smashing the wrist off one of the turnbuckles (bonus points for some booking continuity and all that). Arn's arm work was obviously good stuff, but I was super impressed by how Houston made it compelling on his end. It was some really good babyface work, how vocal he was in selling the pain, how he'd keep trying to fight out of holds or create openings, how he was never content to just take a beating and only show some fire when it was his turn for a hope spot. He'd even sell the arm after or during moves where the arm itself wasn't actually the focus, like when he ducked low for a backdrop and Arn elbowed him in the neck. He went over selling the blow first, but then he'd quickly clutch the bad arm and draw it in close to his body. His missed crossbody bump at the end was fucking wild too. This was Dustin Rhodes before Dustin even laced up a boot and possibly even more reckless. I thought this was a legitimately great 10 minute studio bout. Who's doing the deep dive on Sam Houston?
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[1986-02-07-JCP-Superstars on the Superstation] Ric Flair vs Ron Garvin
KB8 replied to Loss's topic in February 1986
I'm more with Sleeze on this. Before watching the 12/85 studio match last year it had been about a decade since the last time I watched a Flair/Garvin match. Honestly, I never had much interest in going back to them as a pairing, but it somehow feels pretty fresh again after all this time. Probably because they tear strips off each other and I guess that sort of violence will never really get old. This had lots of that and felt plenty uncooperative (in a good way). I like Flair best when he's lacing into someone, so there'll always be something for me to dig when he's in there with Garvin and of course they had a bunch of great exchanges. For all his hubris Flair's strikes always looked pretty lethal, but against Garvin he's in over his head and I love when the realisation of that tips him over the edge, usually resulting in him just choking Garvin or trying to gouge his eyes out. My favourite part of this was when he actually managed to gather some momentum, only to piss it all away by getting cocky and slapping Garvin across the face. Sometimes I do wish he'd come out on top of a few more strike exchanges, but I suppose Garvin IS the man with hands of stone. Flair screaming at Crockett to shut up afterwards as Dave tries to tell Tommy Young about the foot on the ropes was A+. -
[1986-02-07-JCP-Superstars on the Superstation] Dusty Rhodes vs Tully Blanchard
KB8 replied to Loss's topic in February 1986
Tully was so good in this. I've always sort of taken for granted that he was a step below your guys like Arn, Eaton and Morton, but these days I'd pretty comfortably stick him in that same bracket. He was a phenomenal pro-wrestler. This started out with Dusty working the leg, which is how many a Dusty v Horsemen match would start around this time. Flair and his cousins broke Dusty's ankle so it made for an instant revenge hook any time they matched up for months afterwards. His leg work is fine enough, nothing particularly special or compelling but he's Dusty and the crowd are always with him. It's the way Tully reacts to and sells all of it that makes it stand out. Dusty will throw on a spinning toe hold so Tully will roll onto his belly to prevent that spinning toe hold from turning into a figure four. Dusty will try and drag him to the floor so Tully will push his free leg against the bottom rope to stop him, or at the very least make it difficult for him. It wasn't anything mind-blowing in isolation, but it creates that sense of struggle. He takes over when Dusty hits an elbow off the top and tweaks his own bad ankle, and there was a great bit right away where Tully would drive his knee into the ankle, selling that knee at the same time as Dusty had just wrapped it around the ring post not but a minute ago. Tully jumping a guy is like Pat Beverley playing man defence. He gives you no breathing room, just completely swarms you and on top of that he was rolling out some mean looking inverted Indian deathlocks. Both guys' punches looked amazing in this as well. Dusty's left jabs were as good as I've ever seen them, right up there with the best Lawler jab combos. There was an incredible bit where Tully was peppering Dusty in the corner with rights and lefts and Dusty's jelly-legged selling was out of this world. And JJ's interference, while fairly low key, made for a couple great little moments. The first was when Dusty left the ring to stalk him down and Tully lunged between the middle and bottom ropes to get at him. A bit later Dusty went after him again, but when Tully dove for him this time Dusty was ready and caught him with a peach of a right hand. I liked this a bunch and it might actually be my favourite of all their matches together. -
What's usually considered the best Flair/Dusty match? It's not my favourite match-up and the one that was on the Puerto Rico 80s set did nothing for me at all (not that it'd be eligible for this anyway), but the last couple I've watched I've enjoyed. Thought Starrcade '85 was good when I watched it last year, and their 1/25/86 match from Greensboro that I watched a couple days ago looked even better, although it was clipped up a bit.
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I'm also going through GH's Horsemen and MX comps right now and watched the 1/19/86 Flair/Garvin match the other night. I'm too pernickety to vote for most matches with clipping, but it was good stuff. I mean, I don't feel bad leaving it off a top 100 considering we have a handful of their other matches in full and their 12/85 match from the studio will be pretty high on my list anyway. Crockett in 1986 was truly absurd. What a year.
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Man, this absolutely ruled. What the hell? Why is this never talked about when one of the guys in it is the most talked about wrestler in the history of our great sport? How is there a Flair match this good that hasn't had eighty six thousand words written about it? Pre-world title babyface Nature Boy is so awesome. I never thought I'd get properly excited about Flair again, not after all this time when I thought I'd seen all I ever possibly needed to see from him, but I couldn't believe how impressive he was in this. His babyface energy was startling. This wasn't like when he'd work babyface after he'd won all those world titles. It wasn't even like that brief period in '85 when he worked babyface against the Russians, and that was him at the absolute peak of his powers. I've said this before, but a lot of babyface Flair still felt like heel Flair only dialed back a bit. He'd still do a bunch of the things he'd do as a heel, they'd just get the babyface pop because of who he was. In fact he could practically work heel opposite an actual heel, but if he was presented as a babyface and the fans were supposed to cheer him then the fans would cheer him. He was Ric Flair and could do whatever the hell he wanted. This, though, was a babyface who worked 100% like a babyface. In an alternate reality he took this act and paired up with a Ricky Steamboat and they became the greatest babyface tag team that ever lived. He strutted and woo'd but there was no arrogance to any of it. There was none of that veneer where you knew deep down he was still that same guy who'd pat you on the back then brag about your wife waiting in line for Space Mountain. At one point Mosca had Valentine in a bearhug and Flair strutted along the apron, started the crowd clapping along, then grabbed the house mic and folk just went apeshit wooing along with him. He was hitting running dropkicks instead of knife edge chops. Nothing was methodical; he was all energy, whether he was working the apron or coming in off the hot tag. The Valentine feud was in full swing so he was after him the whole time, getting super nasty by grinding his knuckles right into Valentine's nose (Valentine had broken Flair's nose not long before this) and popping him with elbows, rapid punch flurries to the gut, it all ruled. And man was he an awesome face in peril. He took two stints being beat on and both were great, but the second was where he got cut open and that was the strongest run of the match. Valentine was obviously being a nasty fuck, and the Sheik was a ton of fun throwing cheapshots and biting the open wound, but it was Flair's selling and sympathy-garnering that really made it. There was a great spot where he came in off the hot tag earlier and went for a big elbow on Valentine, really stopping to measure him before landing it, then when Valentine rolled out the way Flair just took an extra step in his direction and dropped it on him anyway. They repeat that spot during Flair's second heat segment, except this time Valentine drops four elbow attempts and Flair moves out the way each time, eventually scrambling into a neutral corner and leaping off the middle turnbuckle with a big Dusty style elbow of his own. It was as good a hope spot, with as perfect a sense of timing, as you could've asked for. Even the finish was great. After all those times we've seen him almost get caught out with a backslide, who'd have guessed he had the best backslide in his locker all along? Killer match. Everybody did their bit in it, but this was a Flair performance even the most jaded of us can appreciate.
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I actually started watching that whole Boogie Jam (3/17/84) show a few days ago so I should get to the Flair/Steamboat match soon. I've never seen it before.
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Masayuki Naruse v Sergei Sousserov (2/28/93) Man this was fun. It was a little sloppy at points and not everything came off great, but the striking had a recklessness to it - especially Sousserov's - and we got some neat takedowns and submission attempts that the crowd really peaked for when you wanted them to (it's Korakuen, after all). Nothing on the ground was particularly slick and it was a little stop-start with them getting tangled in the ropes, but they were both going for it and I don't mind some choppiness if there's energy to it. Sousserov is the business and this was probably one of my favourite non-Han or Maeda bouts so far. Mitsuya Nagai v Sandor Telgen (2/28/93) You know, this was perfectly fine. It only went five minutes and it wasn't setting the world on fire, but they at least kept the stand-up moving along. None of the kicks landed particularly clean, but they threw a bunch of them and there was no standing around doing nothing. Nagai also had a couple cool takedowns and the finish was sweet. There have been worse bouts, let me tell you. Naoyuki Taira v Toshiyuki Atokawa (2/28/93) This is the fifth Taira match/fight I've watched this week, and for someone I hadn't even heard of until a couple years ago I'm sold on him being pretty fun. I'm not entirely sure what the rules were here, but there are five three minute rounds, interchanging between kickboxing and MMA, and it very much may possibly have been a shoot. It wasn't great or anything but it was spirited and Taira visibly enjoying himself out there was sort of infectious. At one point he went for a flying knee and absolutely hurled himself out the ring, then came back in smiling a little sheepishly even though the crowd ate it up. They appreciated the effort, certainly. Maeda also came in and officiated the MMA/RINGS rounds of the fight and the crowd sure seemed to get a kick out of that as well. Masayuki Naruse v Nobuaki Kakuta (3/5/93) This was about a thousand times more spirited than I was expecting. Then again this is the second Kakuta fight in a row that's turned out to be good so maybe he is no longer the pits? Has Kakuta managed to put it all together as a master of the fake shootfighting? It was a pretty basic fight all in all; nothing particularly slick on the ground -- in fact, not much of anything was actually done on the mat because Kakuta is lost at sea as soon as he gets there, but that'll add to the drama when he's against someone capable and Naruse really played up that advantage. Kakuta isn't the most compelling striker as his stuff will tend to look like he's doing a demonstration, but he was more dangerous during the stand up than Naruse so it settled us into a fine striker v grappler story. His palm strikes were better here than pretty much any other time I can remember so that was a plus. Crowds are always bonkers for him as well and I'm still not really sure why, but you can't complain when they're rocking like this. Some nice drama down the stretch with both guys running low on points, Kakuta trying to score that winning knockdown, Naruse trying to grab a takedown and go for the tap. A fun bout is all I can really ask for out of Kakuta, so I was happy with what I got. Sirra Fubicha v Kalil Valvitov (3/5/93) Man what the hell? I have no clue who either of these guys are, couldn't tell you where they're from, have never seen nor heard of them before and don't know if they ever grace the Fighting Network RINGS at any other point. And hey, this totally ruled. I was skeptical at first because it's fought over six three minute rounds and those bouts aren't usually the best, but they shut me up straight away as Fubicha heaves the much bigger Valvitov across the ring with a uranage. This had some hyyyyuge throws, including a couple super impressive deadlift Germans, an awesome powerslam, a sort of death valley driver, many a uranage and at one point Fubicha even did a headscissors takeover! Neither are great on the mat but we all appreciate Valvitov's determination when it comes to locking in an STF. I'm not sure he knew how to do anything else. Either way he sensed that it was his route to victory and he wouldn't be swayed. Fubicha was pretty wild with his striking, at least in that he would kind of shriek before unloading a flurry of palm strikes, backhands and a pump kick or two. By the end they'd run out of ideas and both were clearly knackered, but it might've been the best fight using the rounds system so far. A bit ugly, a bit sluggish, a bit awesome. Yoshihisa Yamamoto v Pieter Oele (3/5/93) This was another spirited little contest. I'm not familiar with Oele, but you could tell pretty early that he was a kickboxer and not long after that you could tell this was going the striker v grappler route. Even though Yamamoto has nice stand up (or would come to have nice stand up. It wasn't fully developed at this point) he wasn't likely to have much joy on the feet here. Oele was absolutely drilling him with leg kicks that had to just suck being on the receiving end of. I mean these were hellish. Then he'd celebrate each knockdown by sitting up on the turnbuckle like "c'mon, what's the hold up here?" That sort of behaviour along with his punchable Jerry Seinfeld face had me rooting for our boy Yamamoto, and sure enough I thought he was pulling it out the bag when he hooked in a gnarly STF (there have been some killer shoot style STFs on this show). I feel like Oele would make for an interesting Maeda opponent. He hits enough like a truck that you can buy him as a threat standing up, and also because Maeda would be way less receptive to having his legs chopped to bits and might throw professionalism out the window. Not that it'd be like him. Willie Peeters v Sergei Sousserov (3/5/93) Short and nifty. Both these guys are fun and Sousserov looks like he could end up being really good, so I had some expectations for this. Even thought it barely went five minutes they were pretty well met for what it was. Sousserov's engine is ridiculous and he's constantly moving forward in fights, which led to a couple cool moments where Peeters caught him shooting in for takedowns with a high kick. The stand up wasn't the most crisp, but it was active and they made use of their time. Awesome finish as well. Dick Vrij v Mitsuya Nagai (3/5/93) Also spirited! This show is fairly bringing it with the fun five minute bouts. Vrij caught Nagai in the face with a closed-fist punch early on and apologised deeply for it, but then someone in Nagai's corner must've said something to piss the big fella off and from that point on he just tried to unleash holy murder. I've said a bunch of times that Vrij has presence and when he's in the mood to cave someone's face in you truly feel for the person whose nose is getting splattered across their coupon. Nagai would shoot in for leglocks and a couple times he forced rope breaks, Vrij would respond with brutal kicks and palm strikes, the crowd ate all of it up. I'll take five minutes of that twelve times out of ten, thank you very much. Volk Han v Andrei Kopylov (3/5/93) This was way more one-sided than their last bout. Han comes out the gate firing and drops Kopylov with a knockdown, then forces him into a rope break shortly thereafter, and I wonder if anything is quite as terrifying a prospect as pissed off Volk Han out to avenge a previous loss. Kopylov is fun as hell but he was strangely passive in this. There were times where you could see him almost waiting for Han to set stuff up, like he knew this was a fight where Han was going to look great, but didn't know how to create that sense of struggle at the same time. On the one hand it means you get to see Han do a bunch of preposterous shit on a blank canvas. On the other hand it's not nearly as compelling - or impressive - as when he'd do a bunch of preposterous shit against an opponent trying to prevent it with a little more endeavor. But it's Han doing his wizardry so it's hard to complain too much. His reverse figure four was a thing of beauty but his set-up for the rolling armbar was just as great, the way he threw that kick to the midsection to buckle Kopylov over and create his opening. Obviously this was good.
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I'd think one of the Flair/Steamboat matches, Wargames '92 or Flair/Funk from the GAB probably takes the overall top spot. Rey/Eddy from Halloween Havoc with the outside shot. It's been so long since I've watched most of this stuff that I have no real clue what my own top 5 is likely to look like. Maybe Piper/Valentine, Rey/Eddy, Flair/Morton, Flair/Funk (GAB this time, rather than the I Quit match) and a Wargames (either '87 or '92).
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[1981-10-14-MACW-TV] Roddy Piper vs Jay Youngblood
KB8 replied to Superstar Sleeze's topic in October 1981
Really cool ten minute bout. Piper's best quality in the ring might be his unpredictability. He'll do a bunch of shit off the cuff that makes all of his matches feel uncooperative. Going for an armdrag? Nope, you're getting flung on your arse. Collar-and-elbow tie-up? Here's a headbutt. Punch exchange? You're getting dragged by the hair into a headlock and a thumb's getting jabbed in your throat. It might look messy sometimes, but I'll take that a hundred times out of a hundred over something that looks like a pre-planned choreography session (yes I am an old man yelling at clouds. I've made peace with it). This started great with some real quick scrambling. Piper would take Jay's back, Jay would take Piper's and muss up his hair, so Piper would grab a handful of Jay's and swing him around. He'd take powders because maybe he underestimated Yougblood, then he'd shit talk Caudle for making that point. He even suggested a death match with Yougblood when Jay made the challenge earlier on the show, now he's having to regroup. This of course annoys him further and it leads to them trading snug headbutts and chops. Last couple minutes are a race to beat the clock, Piper going off on the ref' when he can't put Youngblood away with the sleeper. And of course a draw isn't an acceptable result so he beats on Jay some more after the bell. Piper really feels like one of the great studio match wrestlers of all time. -
[1984-11-22-JCP-Starrcade '84] Tully Blanchard vs Ricky Steamboat
KB8 replied to Superstar Sleeze's topic in November 1984
Man do I love this match. On an individual level it's some of the best stuff both guys have ever done, or at the very least it's some of my favourite. It's different from your typical awesome Steamboat performance (awesome being typical for yer man Ricky). When you talk about the best of Ricky Steamboat you usually think of the theatrics and the emoting and the selling all the way to the back row. In contrast, this was more subtle and probably came off better to those of us watching through the screen. I actually haven't seen any of the build up to this, which could easily be rectified given how much of the surrounding TV footage is on the Network, but Steamboat comes in with a hip/rib injury on his left side. That injury is the crux of the match, but rather than being on the back foot because of it, where he's selling a beatdown with the ribs as Tully's target, it's more about him trying to put Tully away before the injury completely debilitates him. It's Steamboat as offensive dynamo, which isn't really a role you associate with him. He was hitting all sorts of big offence though; a swinging neckbreaker, huge powerslam, his strikes were crisp (including this awesome ax kick out the corner), a big back suplex, even Tully's own slingshot suplex. You still get the selling, it's just a bit more understated, more from the front foot. He looks great during the early flurry where he just swarms Tully, but then he needs to catch his wind and the adrenaline wears off a bit. You can see right there that he isn't 100% by the way he grabs the hip. Love how he'd circle Tully by keeping his left side turned away from him, always trying to shield it where possible, how he'd stop and catch a pained breath, which plausibly gave Tully a chance to recover a little each time. Tully's first dig to the ribs is perfection. Steamboat tries to hide how much it stung, but Tully isn't stupid and sees exactly where his opening is, doing his little strut after his route to victory's been presented to him. At one point Steamboat stopped, clutched his side and looked at Tully like "you are such a little prick." And we were all with him because Tully truly is the ultimate prick. He was amazing in this. The rules are that he can't run away or be disqualified to keep the belt through bullshittery and early on his first instinct is always to bolt. There are three instances in the first thirty seconds where he wants to roll out the ring to break Steamboat's momentum, but then it dawns on him that he can't and has to head back into the eye of the storm. His offence comes in spurts, mostly opportunistic, but when they do come it's relentless. Even off a rope break he'll just lunge at Steamboat and elbow or knee or drive a shoulder into Steamboat's side. If Steamboat leaves himself open too long you know Tully's throwing a jab in there, which led to Steamboat having to go for a chinlock a couple times to contain him. Then when Tully can't string together any offence he opts for the shithousing. He spits at Steamboat's face and does this goofy Ali shuffle, strutting away as Steamboat looks at him with pure venom. That obviously led to the perfect revenge spot with Steamboat spitting point blank in Tully's bloody face before chopping him to bits. Tully being desperate and going to the foreign object isn't surprising and I like how Steamboat kicked out of the first shot, so you think he's survived it, only for Tully to be Tully and find himself a second chance. You make your own luck after all and there's a reason Tully so often had a title around his waist. I do wish they played up Steamboat's injury a bit more in the back half, but it's a small gripe overall and both guys were incredible. Maybe my favourite Starrcade match ever.- 4 replies
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- jcp
- november 22
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I took part in a Greatest WCW match poll close to a decade ago on another forum; one that lasted about a year, over the course of which I watched an absolute ton. That one only covered the period from when Turner took over until WCW rode off into the sunset (same period that Smarkschoice covered for their poll a few years before that), but this was my top 100 at the time: 1. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions VI, 4/2/89) 2. Eddy Guerrero v Rey Misterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc, 10/26/97) 3. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions IX, 11/15/89) 4. Ricky Steamboat v Rick Rude (Beach Blast, 6/20/92) 5. Sting v Vader (SuperBrawl, 2/21/93) 6. Goldberg v Diamond Dallas Page (Halloween Havoc, 10/25/98) 7. Arn Anderson, Rick Rude, Larry Zbyszko & Bobby Eaton v Sting, Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham (Saturday Night, 2/22/92) 8. Ricky Steamboat, Dustin Rhodes & Nikita Koloff v Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko (Saturday Night, 5/23/92) 9. Wargames (WrestleWar, 2/24/91) 10. Wargames (WrestleWar, 5/17/92) 11. The Steiner Brothers v Nasty Boys (Halloween Havoc, 10/27/90) 12. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (Clash of the Champions XIX, 6/16/92) 13. Eddy Guerrero v Chris Jericho (Fall Brawl, 9/14/97) 14. Randy Savage v Diamond Dallas Page (Great American Bash, 6/15/97) 15. Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champion XXIX, 11/16/94) 16. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Great American Bash, 7/23/89) 17. Rock n Roll Express v Midnight Express (Wrestlewar, 2/25/90) 18. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas v Barry Windham & Brian Pillman (Starrcade, 12/28/92) 19. Vader v The Boss (Spring Stampede, 4/17/94) 20. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Chi-Town Rumble, 2/20/89) 21. Midnight Express v Southern Boys (Great American Bash, 7/7/90) 22. Sting v Vader (Starrcade, 12/28/92) 23. Sting v Vader (Great American Bash, 7/12/92) 24. Rick Rude v Dustin Rhodes (Worldwide, 5/30/92) 25. Ric Flair & Sting v Dick Slater & Great Muta (Clash of the Champions VIII, 9/12/89) 26. Chris Benoit v Kevin Sullivan (Great American Bash, 6/16/96) 27. Terry Funk v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions VII, 6/14/89) 28. Hollywood Blonds v Marcus Bagwell & Too Cold Scorpio (Worldwide, 5/8/93) 29. Ric Flair v Lex Luger (Starrcade, 12/26/88) 30. Eddy Guerrero & Chris Jericho v Faces of Fear (Nitro, 2/24/97) 31. Diamond Dallas Page v Sting (Nitro, 4/26/99) 32. Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas v Steve Austin & Brian Pillman (Clash of the Champions XXII, 1/13/93) 33. Ricky Steamboat v Lex Luger (Great American Bash, 7/23/89) 34. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlewar, 5/7/89) 35. Wrath & Mortis v Glacier & Ernest Miller (Bash at the Beach, 7/13/97) 36. Barry Windham v Too Cold Scorpio (Clash of the Champions XXIII, 6/16/93) 37. Steven Regal v Fit Finlay (Uncensored, 3/24/96) 38. Arn Anderson v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night, 1/4/92) 39. Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne v Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede, 4/17/94) 40. Ric Flair & Barry Windham v Lex Luger & Eddie Gilbert (Main Event, 3/25/89) 41. Rick Rude v Brian Pillman (Pro, 2/15/92) 42. Arn Anderson v Barry Windham (Saturday Night, 6/6/92) 43. Steve Austin v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions XX, 9/2/92) 44. Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck (Spring Stampede, 4/17/94) 45. Vader v Sting (Slamboree, 5/22/94) 46. Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes v Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko (Clash of the Champions XVII, 11/19/91) 47. Sting v Cactus Jack (Beach Blast, 6/20/92) 48. Doom v Arn Anderson & Barry Windham (Starrcade, 12/16/90) 49. Diamond Dallas Page v Chris Benoit (Superbrawl, 2/22/98) 50. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes v Larry Zbyszko & Steve Austin (SuperBrawl, 2/29/92) 51. Steven Regal v Larry Zbyszko (Saturday Night, 5/28/94) 52. Chavo Guerrero Jr. v Rey Misterio Jr. (Superbrawl Revenge, 2/18/01) 53. Steven Regal v Ricky Steamboat (Fall Brawl, 9/19/93) 54. Sting v Cactus Jack (Power Hour, 11/16/91) 55. Wargames (Fall Brawl, 9/18/94) 56. Chris Benoit v Too Cold Scorpio (SuperBrawl, 2/21/93) 57. Ric Flair v Brian Pillman (World Championship Wrestling, 2/17/90) 58. Vader v Ric Flair (Starrcade, 12/27/93) 59. Rick Rude & Steve Austin v Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes (Great American Bash, 7/12/92) 60. Arn Anderson v Great Muta (Power Hour, 1/12/90) 61. Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night, 11/21/92) 62. Randy Savage v Diamond Dallas Page (Halloween Havoc, 10/26/97) 63. Jake Roberts v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night, 9/26/92) 64. Eddy Guerrero & Juventud Guerrera v Rey Misterio Jr. & Billy Kidman (Nitro, 12/28/98) 65. Vader v Hulk Hogan (Superbrawl, 2/19/95) 66. Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes v Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (Saturday Night, 10/3/92) 67. The Steiner Brothers v Tatsumi Fujinami & Takayuki Iizuka (WrestleWar, 5/17/92) 68. Ric Flair v Steven Regal (Worldwide, 4/30-5/28/94) 69. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night, 5/14/94) 70. Vader v Ron Simmons (Main Event, 8/16/92) 71. Arn Anderson v Big Josh (Saturday Night, 5/2/92) 72. Chris Benoit v Brad Armstrong (Clash of the Champions XXII, 1/13/93) 73. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson v Vader & Steve Austin (Saturday Night, 11/13/93) 74. Steve Austin v Brian Pillman (Worldwide, 7/4/92) 75. Terry Funk v Tully Blanchard (Slamboree, 5/22/94) 76. Ric Flair v Hulk Hogan (Halloween Havoc, 10/23/94) 77. Randy Savage v Diamond Dallas Page (Spring Stampede) 78. Juventud Guerrera v Blitzkrieg (Spring Stampede, 4/11/99) 79. Barry Windham v Eddie Gilbert (NWA TV, 1/14/89) 80. Chris Benoit v Jeff Jarrett (Mayhem, 11/21/99) 81. Arn Anderson & Vader v Stars ‘n’ Stripes (Saturday Night, 4/25/95) 82. Barry Windham v Brian Pillman (Pro, 4/6/91) 83. Arn Anderson v Alex Wright (Slamboree, 5/21/95) 84. Goldberg v Scott Steiner (Fall Brawl, 9/17/00) 85. Bam Bam Bigelow v Hak (Spring Stampede, 4/11/99) 86. Randy Savage v Ric Flair (Great American Bash, 6/18/95) 87. Fit Finlay v Chris Benoit (Slamboree, 5/17/98) 88. Brian Pillman v Johnny B. Badd (Fall Brawl, 9/17/95) 89. Eddy Guerrero v Chris Benoit (Nitro, 10/16/95) 90. Rick Rude, Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton v Sting & The Steiner Brothers (Worldwide, 10/3/92) 91. Vader v Cactus Jack (Worldwide, 4/30/94) 92. Fit Finlay v Steven Regal (Nitro, 4/29/96) 93. Eddy Guerrero v Rey Misterio Jr. (Nitro, 9/8/97) 94. Nikita Koloff v Mr. Hughes (Saturday Night, 5/9/92) 95. Chris Benoit v Mike Enos (Souled Out, 1/17/99) 96. Rey Misterio Jr. v Bam Bam Bigelow (Nitro, 3/1/99) 97. Steven Regal v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night, 8/8/93) 98. Eddy Guerrero & Chris Jericho v Dean Malenko & Chavo Guerrero Jr. (Nitro, 2/9/98) 99. Terry Funk v Dustin Rhodes (Uncensored, 3/19/00) 100. Terry Funk v Normal Smiley (Spring Stampede, 4/16/00) It'll obviously look much different this time around, not just because of an extra eight years' worth of eligible matches, but because my feelings on a lot of those matches there will have changed by now. I mean, I haven't watched my #1 there in forever but I'd be sort of shocked if I have it in the same spot this time around.
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I'm not on Facebook either, but I'd also like to jump in on this.
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You're way further ahead on these shows than me at this point. What would you say is the strongest overall year for the company (up to the point you've reached, at least)? Because late-decade RINGS usually grabs the most attention, but '95 and '96 are better represented there than '97 and it was '97 I expected to have the most good-to-great stuff when I started this thing.
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What a match. There is nothing complicated about this. If you know anything about their rivalry then it'll probably resonate with you a little more, probably make everything come off a little richer in its execution, but even going in cold this is not a difficult match to follow. Partly because the simplicity is in how much they absolutely smash each other to bits. There are only like three actual transitions as well, each of which being examples of them smashing each other to bits. The tie-ups to start are Hashimoto v Choshu tie-ups, like two bulls butting heads. Then Choshu starts throwing kicks to Hashimoto's leg so Hash completely obliterates him. He just punts him up and down the place. This is Hashimoto's house now and Choshu's trying to use some of his wiliness but you will fucking not be pulling that shit tonight, my friend. I can only assume Hash had a leg injury at some point in the lead up to this because Choshu finally manages to take over by just clubbing Hashimoto's knee as the latter goes for a wheel kick. Ordinarily that wouldn't seem like a spot to shift momentum so drastically, especially given Hashimoto's dominance up to that point, but Hash sold it like it had totally ruined him so maybe there's something else there. Either way Choshu goes right to what brung him and about decapitates Hash with a lariat. And well, Choshu trying to lariat Hashimoto into oblivion as Hash refuses to give an inch is one of those things in pro-wrestling that just feels right. It's pure. Like Lawler and Dundee trading haymakers or Tamura and Han fighting over limbs. They're not the only ones to have done it, but there's something about THOSE guys doing it that nobody else can quite capture. Hashimoto's selling is so good as Choshu unloads bombs, the way he grimaces knowing how much this next lariat is gonna suck, the way he struggles to stay upright, the way he sells the cumulative damage of each blow. Choshu going through progressive stages of denial or disbelief as Hashimoto keeps kicking out ruled as well. After his last attempt he's almost shocked into a state of immobility, but it ends up costing him as Hash comes roaring back out of nowhere with a monster roundhouse. Even as you get the sense it's only a matter of time you still wonder if Choshu has one trick left in the bag. And then Hash crushes him with the nastiest middle rope elbow you ever did see. That this might not even be a top 3 iteration of this match-up is sort of staggering.
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Well, it's official. Michiyoshi Ohara has more great matches in 1993 than Bret Hart. This isn't New Japan v WAR, but it IS New Japan v Heisei Ishingun, which seems to make things only slightly less nuclear. Ohara had been teaming here and there with Hashimoto throughout the year, usually against the WAR invaders, and usually he got stomped into the floor by Tenryu as Hashimoto would come to his aid. But now Ohara's thrown his lot in with Koshinaka and his HI brethren and thus turned his back on Hashimoto. Maybe Hash wanted to give Ohara a chance to see the light early on because the first few minutes were pretty tentative. Well, maybe not tentative. Hashimoto's not necessarily someone I'd think of as a GREAT mat worker, but all of his matwork does tend to feel gritty and contested. He rarely goes through the motions so there's always an edge to it, and this had an edge to it. Then Ohara slapped him and that was that. Hash breaking his skull open in response with a headbutt and two closed fist punches was nuts. Our person with the handheld cam was directly behind Ohara when it happened, and as soon as he turned around after the headbutt the blood was trickling. Hash pretty much mauled him for the remainder while Ohara did what he was apparently really good at and that's try in vain to not get slaughtered. Some of the kicks Hash threw were ungodly, a few that would've sent a lesser man's lungs through the sky roof, others that landed right under the jaw and nose. The spin kicks, the overhand chops, the regular chops. Why would you ever want to step to this guy? The last DDT was sickening and who knows how Ohara never got carted out of there on a fork lift. That he just waited for Ohara to stand back up before casually choking him out was such a great finish. Come at the king you best not miss.
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Everything great about Hash v Choshu. Not quite as epic as 1996, not the same story of pride as 1991, not the struggle of 1997, but at its core it's Hash v Choshu and everything that entails. They really thump each other silly and there are few more consistently awesome slugfests in wrestling history. Choshu was landing absolute jaw-jacker elbows including a knockout blow as Hash charged him in the corner, Hash was kicking him absurdly hard in the midsection, they were trading nasty headbutts, it had all the staples. I just love the struggle you get with all of their matches. Overall this was worked pretty even and generally I like it when someone at least sustains momentum for a stretch, but not one transition felt lazy or like someone decided it was their turn to go back on offence again. If Hash cut off Choshu he did it with something that'd believably halt your momentum. If Choshu cut off Hash he made damn sure you were buying it. They milked the big moments, they hit with purpose, they didn't need to do a whole lot, and they had everyone on strings. Finish might've come off a little sudden, but I like it as a surprise KO with Hash spotting his chance and going all in before Choshu can recover. This match-up never fails.
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[1986-05-04-WWF-Toronto, ONT] Randy Savage vs Tito Santana
KB8 replied to paul sosnowski's topic in May 1986
I love this feud. It might be my favourite WWF feud of the 80s. This wasn't quite as good as what my memory tells me about the MSG match, but it was another home run. Tito was so good, man. He probably had a heel run somewhere or other but as far as career babyfaces go he got believably fired up like no other. I bought him wanting to kill Savage, take his belt (which Savage had taken from him in the first place under controversial circumstances), then kill him again. Savage was also a whirlwind of crazy. He threw Tito over the ropes, the barricade, almost fell several times climbing after him, jumped off of turnbuckles and the ring apron and the barricade, hit him with a chair, threw the chair away, hopped into the crowd to get it back, hit him again. Security were having to follow him around and keep fans in check, put stuff back in its original place for everyone's safety, really having to earn their keep that night. I've said before that one of my favourite things about Savage is how, despite being a guy who reportedly planned out his matches to the letter, there was always a sense of chaos and unpredictability to what he was doing. And the whole time he was in control here it felt like he was just rushing through the ideas that were coming to mind for ways to inflict misery. "I'll just jump off this shit and club him in the head." "Oh there's a steel chair, might as well hit him with that. Oh look another thing I can jump off of, I'ma climb it." It was never directionless in the way you'd get someone just running through stuff with no rhyme or reason. I mean it was directionless in that he's a nutjob who was acting on his impulses, yet it had plenty direction in the sense it was all ultimately designed to fuck up Tito Santana. The opening was also awesome with Elizabeth getting bumped off her feet as Savage tried to use her as a meat shield, Tito checking on her and Savage blindsiding him, because what's more important to Savage than the Intercontinental title? Not Elizabeth, apparently. -
That makes sense, tbf. I don't actually know if I've seen any of his AAA run. I mean, I probably have even if it's a few trios here and there, but I'm pretty sure I've seen nothing from that Panther feud.
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- emilio charles jr.
- jaque mate
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The greatest feud of them all delivers yet another midcard banger. A sprinkle of inter-promotional hatred makes everything in wrestling that much better and this was quite the little slobberknocker. Hara was pretty much the richest poor man's Tenryu you could get, starting out surly and smashing chairs over Saito's head. Saito responds by absolutely walloping him senseless with kicks to the chest and spleen, and it always sort of amazes me how these WAR crowds are ten thousand percent behind the non-WAR guys kicking the living shit out of the hometowners (Tenryu aside). You'd think the fans in attendance would rally behind their own, but instead they lose their mind for guys like Koshinaka driving his hip bone into a WAR guy's orbital bone. Both guys threw a hundred potatoes in this. At one point Saito was blasting away at Hara's midsection and Hara would try to stand up to it in defiance, too proud to show weakness, too hurt to properly mount any sort of comeback. Then he'd spot an opening and tee off and there was one lariat across the bridge of Saito's nose that was just putrid. This really is WAR v New Japan in all its grimy, brutal glory. The very greatest of them all.
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[1996-04-06-BattlARTS] Katsumi Usuda vs Alexander Otsuka
KB8 replied to Jetlag's topic in April 1996
Any wrestling taking place in a studio with a purple colour scheme going on will remind me of those early 80s matches from the DVDVR Memphis set and so this had the vibe of something they'd run after an angle where Bill Dundee gets clobbered in the brain with a Moondog dinosaur bone. It was a neat enough few minutes; had some big Otsuka suplexes, some sharp strike flurries by Usuda and some alright matwork even if it was nowhere close to high end Battlarts matwork. I'm always fascinated by shoot style promotions in their formative periods and this had glimpses of what Battlarts would become without being all the way there yet.- 1 reply
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- Katsumi Usuda
- Alexander Otsuka
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I'd say the difference there is that, even if Austin and the rest of those wrestlers in 1997, or Hogan and the rest in 1984, never talked like actual people (and they didn't, because they were larger than life superstars and whatnot), they all felt like individuals. No sane person on the street would act like Steve Austin or walk into a Starbucks and order a caramel latte in the third person like the Rock. Those guys were far from "regular" people, but I'd say the bigger problem today is that, even if a wrestler doesn't talk like a normal human being, they all talk like the SAME not-a-normal-human-being. It's not just that one of them talks about the "WWE Universe" rather than "fans." It's that they all fucking say it. You can't help but remember you're watching something that's micromanaged to ridiculous degrees. And everything being so clearly scripted doesn't help either, because nothing feels organic and most of those folks aren't very good at making that script-writing come across as something they'd actually say.