GSR Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'll add that Jake Roberts is tremendous in everything that I have seen in his leading up to/and following his heel turn. Warrior's acting is really hokey at and times the skits seem campy, but Jake is superb throughout; believable, intense and great delivery. On the 7/20 show there is a Vince McMahon interview that seems really out of place, with him saying that they have the most comprehensive drug testing, education and rehabilitation program in all of sports, and this program will now be extended to test for anabolic steroids, and when you see this (WWF) sign, you can be assured of drug free Sports Entertainment! There are also the Heenan interviews (which I have just got to in my viewing, transpires I was missing four shows which I had to get in, plus the Savage/Liz wedding is getting pushed ridiculously to the point where it curtailed my viewing) where he is holding the NWA belt, and comparing 'Ice Cream to Horse Manure'. Skinner's vignettes are the best of the year, whilst Sid is getting the mega build up (with both heels and faces talking about him prior to his debut). Hopefully I'll get this finished in around a week, then I'll just have to type everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I'll second the recommendation for that Rockers/Nasty Boys match. Great, all action match and I don't even think it's 5 minutes bell-to-bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2012 Please let your focus be on 1991. This is where my research efforts are at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Hey, FLIK and MJH ... any JWP recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Naw, can't be much help thear as I haven't seen anything from 90 or 91 JWP and checking the usual sources I can't find much about 91 JWP besides tape listings and a few matches poping up on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks. There are definitely some matches that look interesting on paper, so maybe we'll just use those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 For whatever it's worth PUNQ & Quebrada both have some star ratings up but mostly for things in the 3 - 3 & 1/2 * range. Halery Saito & Itsuki Yamazaki vs Dynamite Kansai & The Scorpion from 8/8/91 got ***3/4 from PUNQ and that's the highest rated match I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I watched every JWP commercial tape from 1990 and 91 that was available from Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I only have strong memories of the 5th Anniversary show. I remember like the Cutie Suzuki/Scorpion and Devil Masami/Yamazaki matches. Both matches are on youtube (in fact, I think the entire show is on youtube.) Perhaps FLIK or someone can watch it. The only JWP match I've seen that hit four stars from '86-92 was the Devil Masami/Kandori brawl from '87, so if you include any JWP it's not for the match quality but a look at what another women's promotion was doing. Some of the factions are interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 (in fact, I think the entire show is on youtube.) Can't find Eagle vs Lady X but i'm gonna guess that's not worth tracking down anyways, all the rest appears to be online however. I'll give it a watch later today or tomorow sometime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I wish I could remember who the JWP fan on rsp-w was. It wasn't Hisa, but the other Japanese native in the group. I could ask Scott Lacy, who communicated with him in e-mail a good deal back then... but lordy, it's been 16 years and I'm not sure if the person is even a fan anymore. :/ John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 So after watching the little bit that's available on youtube, i'd put the 2 Cutie Suzuki vs The Scorpion matches under the must have catagory. The 8/30 double title match is really good. Mostly focused on mat work but they mix in some cool flashy stuff as well and I dug how they built to the finish. The 10/10 rematch is even better, it's Hair vs Mask + the titles so they work a more agressive big match style. Both would prob be good recomendations for the joshi for ppl that don't like joshi thread and the folk that mistakenly think all it is is Toyota style spints. Angry Cutie is always fun as she'll just forearm folk right in the jaw. Scorpion is someone I really want to see more of as i've only seen 3 or 4 matches with her but they've all been really impressive and she looks like the lost great worker of JWP from that early generation. The kind who'd be more well remembered if she hadn't retired right before the 90's boom period kicked in, sort of like Mika Takahashi in AJW. Looking over tape list, there's a 3rd Cutie/Scorpion match from 8/11 as well which if it's like the 2 that followed would be worth tracking down. Devil Masami vs Itsuki Yamazaki from 8/30 looked great but it's a little hard to get a sense for how great as there appears to be a good 4-5 min chunk missing from the middle. Can't tell if that's how it originally aired or if the youtube uploader just did a bad job editing things. Part 1 ended with Devil in controll working over Yamazaki's arm and part 2 picks up with Yamazaki in controll working over Devil's leg so the jump cut threw me off. Both segments were real good though, especially the latter as Devil sells it like a champ. If a more complete version exist i'd def recomend it for the set and as is i'd still say it wouldn't be a bad inclussion. Dynamite Kansai & Madusa vs Harley Saito & Rumi Kazama from 8/30 was good in that out of controll, chaotic brawl sort of way. Little bit on the sloppy side but really fun. Not at all what I exspected going in with rows of chairs getting hurled at ppls heads and Harley gushing blood all over the place. Don't know if this was cliped or not, if so they did a good job editing it. About 8 mins aired but it's hard to imagine a JWP main event going less then 20 let alone less then 10. Mild recomendation for this. Harley & Kansai seemed to be feuding a lot in the 2nd half of the year as there's about 6 or 7 Harley & Partner vs Kansai & Partner tags that made tape + a big singles match on 10/10 so I think atleast some representation of it should go on the set. Maybe the Halery/Yamazaki vs Kansai/Scorpion match along with their singles would be the best bet. The other 2 91 JWP matches I was able to find, Kandori vs Yamazaki from 10/10 and Cutie vs Plum from 11/2 I liked as well. Wouldn't give either a strong recomendation for the set but they're worth looking up on youtube. Especially Kandori vs Yamazaki as it's a pretty sprited little match with them going all shoot vs pro style battle war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks for checking those out. Will be good to include some JWP. I've never seen The Scorpion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazeUSA Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I have the 91 IWCCW Set headed my way, once it arrives I'll watch some stuff & see how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 There should be some AWF on the Set. Maybe not a ton, but some. For example I know Sabu worked Candido in 91 for the AWF. No clue if the match was good but that would be a good match to throw on as a glimpse at the early indy hero scene in a company that was trying to work nationally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Thanks for the recommendations. Anyone have a clue where I can find AWF footage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 AWF Sabu-Candido is maybe 3 minutes and doesn't give you a sense of "what the fuckishness?" that you want from early Sabu. If you want proto Sabu (and probably historically significant enough that he should be there) the route to go would be FMW tags with Sheik (which are also pretty short or cliiped). Also the novelty of his USWA match with RVD might be worth inclusion. I haven't been a tape trader in years but it used to be really hard to get a hold of 90s Puerto Rico with the exception of Eddie Gilbert booked period in 94/95 (which is lots of him pushing Glen Jacobs and Tom Burton) and 91. For some reason a bunch of 91 was easily available including stuff that got commercial releases. WWC brought in a nice group of brawling wrestlers from the continental US that year ( Ronnie Garvin, Greg Valentine, Dick Murdoch, Dick Slater, Manny Fernandez, Texas Hangmen and the SST) which may have resulted in more tape trader interest (or maybe they just had more money for talent and putting out commercial tapes that year). Who knows? Stuff that I think would be worth going on a 91 set. -Dick Murdoch v Wahoo: It's Dick Murdoch and Wahoo running through their spots together -The Texas Hangmen v Invader/Bronco series: Hot tag series. -Murdoch/Slater v Invader/Colon-Hardliners v Invader/Colon -Abby v Carlos Colon (also the angle that sets it up where Abby attacks Colon in the shower...at one point guys getting attacked in shower in Puerto Rico was considered "tasteless" by continental Us tape traders). Two 50 year old men stabbing each other as they wander around a stadium. Really has the chaotic feel of two fifty year old men getting in a fight stabbing each other around a stadium. -Miguel Perrez Jr v Hurican Castillo Jr dog collar match. Nice contrast to last match as two athletic thirty year old guys working a grizzly brawl around a basketball court chained together by the neck. -Ronnie Garvin v Invader form the Anniversario show: Ronnie Garvin returns to Puerto Rico, and I can watch Garvin build a match around stretching and stiffing an opponent all day. No blood but it's Ronnie Garvin so this may in fact feel like the grizzliest of all these matches. About two years ago awesome Midsouth jobber Gustavo Mendoza started putting up his matches from Puerto Rico on youtube. I don't know if there is a way to put the tag title against the SuperMedics on to disc, but it is just a fun very basic tag construction. I think it would be earliest match and it's important with the Puerto Rican stuff to give a sense that this is style that isn't built on grizzly brawls so much as it is built on really old school simple construction where any minute things can go awry and all hell will break loose. -So this Puerto Rico talk reminds me "hey Victor Quinones and partners started W*ING in 91". I am not the guy to reccomend W*ING matches...and I have no idea who in 2012 is the go to guy to reccomend W*ING. But there probably should be at least one bizzaro W*ING match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thanks for the Puerto Rico recommendations. I'll see what I can find. As for W*ING, these are the matches that are standing out to me at this point: - Dos Caras & El Fantasma vs Fishman & Killer - Headhunters vs Dos Caras & El Fantasma - Headhunter A & Tom Pritchard vs Headhunter B & Danny Davis - Headhunters vs Eddie Gilbert & Tom Pritchard - Mr. Pogo & TNT vs Iceman & Akitoshi Saito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 John, could you post the '91 New Japan star ratings here? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I'll try to get to them tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Steve F. has a decent amount of Puerto Rico in his TV stuff with no matchlists section. Since there are no matchlists, though, that leads to stuff like getting a tape of AWF & WWC TV from '93 because it's from the period where Ray Gonzalez was feuding with Billy Joe Travis over the AWF Junior Heavy title and the tape having nothing good on it other than a Mountie promo from WWC TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 NJPW 1991 Posted by cNJ March 05, 2000 18:22:59 U.S. CST 02/02/91 Saito & Chono vs. Choshu & Hase ***1/4 02/02/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (IWGP title change) ***3/4 02/16/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Aoyagi vs. Machine & Goto & Honaga ***1/4 03/02/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Muto vs. Vader & St. Clair & Rheingans ***1/4 03/09/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Vader & Brown *** 03/09/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Strong Machine & Saito (IWGP Tag title change) ***1/4 03/16/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Koshinaka & Iizuka ****1/4 03/16/91 Vader & Machine vs. Fujinami & Choshu ***1/2 04/20/91 Liger vs. Nogami ***1/2 04/20/91 Liger vs. Finlay ***1/4 04/27/91 Liger vs. Casas ***3/4 04/27/91 Fujinami & Koshinaka vs. Machine & H. Saito ***1/4 04/27/91 Norton & Samoans vs. Muto & Choshu & Chono *** 05/04/91 Liger vs. Owen Hart ****1/2 05/04/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki (Dome Match) ****1/2 05/04/91 Muto & Choshu & Fujinami vs. Norton & Samoans **** 05/11/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Hase Sasaki ***3/4 05/11/91 Honaga vs. Liger (IWGP Jr. title change) **** 06/01/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki **** 06/01/91 Fujinami vs. Chono *** 06/22/91 Duk & Kuriso vs. H. Saito & Goto *** 06/22/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Machine & Pegasus Kid ***3/4 06/29/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Kobayashi vs. Pegasus & Goto & Honaga *** 06/29/91 Machine & H. Saito vs. Hase & Sasaki ***3/4 07/13/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muto & Chono ****1/4 07/20/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muta & TNT **** 07/27/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono & Hashimoto vs. Vader & Bigelow & TNT & Kokina & Samu ***1/2 08/03/91 Vader & Bigelow vs. Muto & Chono ***1/2 08/10/91 Norton vs. Muto (G1) *** 08/10/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (G1) ***1/4 08/24/91 Chono vs. Hashimoto (G1) ***3/4 08/24/91 Chono vs. Muto (G1 Final) ****1/2 09/07/91 Chono & Koshinaka & Hase & Sasaki vs. Hashimoto & Rookies ***1/4 09/21/91 Hashimoto & Hase vs. Duk & Kurisu ***1/4 09/21/91 Fujinami & Muto & Chono vs. Norton & Samoans ***1/2 11/23/91 R Steiner & Norton vs. Hase & Muto (IWGP Tag) ***1/2 11/23/91 Fujinami vs. Chono (IWGP) ***1/4 12/07/91 Saito & Honaga vs. Liger & Nogami ***3/4 12/07/91 Hashimoto & Norton vs. Muto & Hase ***1/4 12/21/91 Liger & Nogami vs. Casas & Katana *** 12/21/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono vs. Bigelow & Horner & Duk *** 12/28/91 Fujinami & Chono vs. Choshu & Nogami **** 12/28/91 Muto & Hase vs. Hashimoto & Norton (IWGP Tag) ***3/4 All ratings from WON. 1991 had 43 matches rated at *** and above. - 3 matches MOTYC (****1/2+) - 7 matches **** to ****1/4 - 14 matches ***1/2 to ***3/4 - 19 matches *** to ***1/4 Splits: ----------- Singles matches: 02/02/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (IWGP title change) ***3/4 04/20/91 Liger vs. Nogami ***1/2 04/20/91 Liger vs. Finlay ***1/4 04/27/91 Liger vs. Casas ***3/4 05/04/91 Liger vs. Owen Hart ****1/2 05/11/91 Honaga vs. Liger (IWGP Jr. title change) **** 06/01/91 Fujinami vs. Chono *** 08/10/91 Norton vs. Muto (G1) *** 08/10/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (G1) ***1/4 08/24/91 Chono vs. Hashimoto (G1) ***3/4 08/24/91 Chono vs. Muto (G1 Final) ****1/2 11/23/91 Fujinami vs. Chono (IWGP) ***1/4 ----------- Tag: 02/02/91 Saito & Chono vs. Choshu & Hase ***1/4 03/09/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Vader & Brown *** 03/09/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Strong Machine & Saito (IWGP Tag title change) ***1/4 03/16/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Koshinaka & Iizuka ****1/4 03/16/91 Vader & Machine vs. Fujinami & Choshu ***1/2 04/27/91 Fujinami & Koshinaka vs. Machine & H. Saito ***1/4 05/04/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki (Dome Match) ****1/2 05/11/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Hase Sasaki ***3/4 06/01/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki **** 06/22/91 Duk & Kuriso vs. H. Saito & Goto *** 06/22/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Machine & Pegasus Kid ***3/4 06/29/91 Machine & H. Saito vs. Hase & Sasaki ***3/4 07/13/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muto & Chono ****1/4 07/20/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muta & TNT **** 08/03/91 Vader & Bigelow vs. Muto & Chono ***1/2 09/21/91 Hashimoto & Hase vs. Duk & Kurisu ***1/4 11/23/91 R Steiner & Norton vs. Hase & Muto (IWGP Tag) ***1/2 12/07/91 Saito & Honaga vs. Liger & Nogami ***3/4 12/07/91 Hashimoto & Norton vs. Muto & Hase ***1/4 12/21/91 Liger & Nogami vs. Casas & Katana *** 12/28/91 Fujinami & Chono vs. Choshu & Nogami **** 12/28/91 Muto & Hase vs. Hashimoto & Norton (IWGP Tag) ***3/4 ----------- Six Man: 02/16/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Aoyagi vs. Machine & Goto & Honaga ***1/4 03/02/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Muto vs. Vader & St. Clair & Rheingans ***1/4 04/27/91 Norton & Samoans vs. Muto & Choshu & Chono *** 05/04/91 Muto & Choshu & Fujinami vs. Norton & Samoans **** 06/29/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Kobayashi vs. Pegasus & Goto & Honaga *** 09/21/91 Fujinami & Muto & Chono vs. Norton & Samoans ***1/2 12/21/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono vs. Bigelow & Horner & Duk *** ----------- Other: 07/27/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono & Hashimoto vs. Vader & Bigelow & TNT & Kokina & Samu ***1/2 09/07/91 Chono & Koshinaka & Hase & Sasaki vs. Hashimoto & Rookies ***1/4 ----------- By */Date **** 1/2 05/04/91 Liger vs. Owen Hart ****1/2 05/04/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki (Dome Match) ****1/2 08/24/91 Chono vs. Muto (G1 Final) ****1/2 **** 1/4 03/16/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Koshinaka & Iizuka ****1/4 07/13/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muto & Chono ****1/4 **** 05/04/91 Muto & Choshu & Fujinami vs. Norton & Samoans **** 05/11/91 Honaga vs. Liger (IWGP Jr. title change) **** 06/01/91 Steiners vs. Hase & Sasaki **** 07/20/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muta & TNT **** 12/28/91 Fujinami & Chono vs. Choshu & Nogami **** *** 3/4 02/02/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (IWGP title change) ***3/4 04/27/91 Liger vs. Casas ***3/4 05/11/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Hase Sasaki ***3/4 06/22/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Machine & Pegasus Kid ***3/4 06/29/91 Machine & H. Saito vs. Hase & Sasaki ***3/4 08/24/91 Chono vs. Hashimoto (G1) ***3/4 12/07/91 Saito & Honaga vs. Liger & Nogami ***3/4 12/28/91 Muto & Hase vs. Hashimoto & Norton (IWGP Tag) ***3/4 *** 1/2 03/16/91 Vader & Machine vs. Fujinami & Choshu ***1/2 04/20/91 Liger vs. Nogami ***1/2 07/27/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono & Hashimoto vs. Vader & Bigelow & TNT & Kokina & Samu ***1/2 08/03/91 Vader & Bigelow vs. Muto & Chono ***1/2 09/21/91 Fujinami & Muto & Chono vs. Norton & Samoans ***1/2 11/23/91 R Steiner & Norton vs. Hase & Muto (IWGP Tag) ***1/2 *** 1/4 02/02/91 Saito & Chono vs. Choshu & Hase ***1/4 02/16/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Aoyagi vs. Machine & Goto & Honaga ***1/4 03/02/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Muto vs. Vader & St. Clair & Rheingans ***1/4 03/09/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Strong Machine & Saito (IWGP Tag title change) ***1/4 04/20/91 Liger vs. Finlay ***1/4 04/27/91 Fujinami & Koshinaka vs. Machine & H. Saito ***1/4 08/10/91 Vader vs. Fujinami (G1) ***1/4 09/07/91 Chono & Koshinaka & Hase & Sasaki vs. Hashimoto & Rookies ***1/4 09/21/91 Hashimoto & Hase vs. Duk & Kurisu ***1/4 11/23/91 Fujinami vs. Chono (IWGP) ***1/4 12/07/91 Hashimoto & Norton vs. Muto & Hase ***1/4 *** 03/09/91 Choshu & Fujinami vs. Vader & Brown *** 04/27/91 Norton & Samoans vs. Muto & Choshu & Chono *** 06/01/91 Fujinami vs. Chono *** 06/22/91 Duk & Kuriso vs. H. Saito & Goto *** 06/29/91 Liger & Koshinaka & Kobayashi vs. Pegasus & Goto & Honaga *** 08/10/91 Norton vs. Muto (G1) *** 12/21/91 Liger & Nogami vs. Casas & Katana *** 12/21/91 Choshu & Fujinami & Chono vs. Bigelow & Horner & Duk *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 07/20/91 Hase & Sasaki vs. Muta & TNT **** TNT as in Savio Vega???? That's odd and unexspected..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted April 2, 2012 Report Share Posted April 2, 2012 -So this Puerto Rico talk reminds me "hey Victor Quinones and partners started W*ING in 91". I am not the guy to reccomend W*ING matches...and I have no idea who in 2012 is the go to guy to reccomend W*ING. But there probably should be at least one bizzaro W*ING match. Little bit off topic but i've been reading more into the history of W*ING today which i'd never paid too much attention to before and the "partners" who started the promotion were Kazuyoshi Osako & Mickey Ibaragi, 2 of the guys who helped Onita start FMW and left because they were disgruntled with him. Lots of talent stealing, atempted talent stealing and bitterness ensued between the 2 companies until FMW stole Pogo back then Matsunaga a few months later in 93 effectively killing W*ING as a seperate company by 94 leading to Quioness & the rest of the ex W*ING crew to start up IWA Japan which resulted in another War between those companies. Hm, there's a fair amount of 91 W*ING on youtube, possibly all their shows actually, I might check that out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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