KrisZ Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I would suggest that you follow the "young boys with Jim Barnett" route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I would suggest that you follow the "young boys with Jim Barnett" route. Dear God. I can't get a ballot because all of my research is focused on guys who aren't on the ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 What's the criteria for getting a ballot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 The question for you Ditch is going to be what guy do you throw a vote to to ensure that you will keep getting a ballot. I don't think there are any obvious picks on the Japan section of the ballot, though I would probably vote for Hamada if I had a vote. But I have heard from others that if you don't vote for someone, Meltzer assumes you aren't interested and won't send a ballot again.Gran Hamada without a doubt for me, so that's not an issue. I'm not hardcore about the strictures of who should get in, beyond "must be solidly more worthy than Hase."How many FSM articles do I have to publish to get a ballot? Kris pull some stringsIt was based on my writing an article on 'wrestling historians'. I'm assuming this this because my ballot was sent as an email reply to a message I sent Dave about the article.What's the criteria for getting a ballot?The Whims Of Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Glad you will be voting for Hamada Ditch. I think he is easily the best of the Japanese candidates and while I don't think he's an unquestioned lock, it seems wrong for him not to be in when guys like Hase, Saito, Ultimo and Funaki are. Don't think there is anyone else from Japan I would vote for, though I do love Han Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Elliott Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 How many FSM articles do I have to publish to get a ballot? Kris pull some stringsYou might be surprised at some of the people who have a copy of FSM shipped to them every month. It makes this editor rather proud, I must say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 When do Punk, Danielson, and Mistico become eligible? They're the only strong candidates coming down the pike I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I don't think Punk or Danielson is a particularly strong candidate. Mistico is a terrible wrestler, but what I know of his drawing power it would be hard to argue against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 What weight do you give Lesnar's MMA success? Can, or must, this be considered? If you only consider pro wrestling, he's a horrible candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Me personally I won't vote for active guys unless they are special cases like luchadores. Lesnar isn't a candidate on any level in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 What weight do you give Lesnar's MMA success? Can, or must, this be considered? If you only consider pro wrestling, he's a horrible candidate. I don't think you should give it any weight myself, but Dave clearly leaves that up to the individual voter. To me wrestling is wrestling and MMA is MMA. There was a period in the early 90's where there was overlap and of course Pride was promoted a certain way but Lesnar has nothing to do with any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I don't think Punk or Danielson is a particularly strong candidate. Mistico is a terrible wrestler, but what I know of his drawing power it would be hard to argue against him. If Punk & Danielson can manage a few more years as top or near top guys in WWE I think both will have great chances of getting in. With Danielson, several years of being a good pick for best in ring worker walking the planet makes him a lock for the crowd that values work rate. Add in another run as World Champ or atleast a while longer as a main event lvl guy in the WWE and it'll get him over the hump with enough of the voters who value star power/drawing/championships/other non wrestling related criteria that I think he'll make it in. With Punk he has more star power then Danielson as he's been among the top 3 most popular full time guys on the roster for a while now and he's a good enough worker to get points with the work rate crowd too. With Mistico I thought he was awesome before he left Mexico and saw him have enough good/great matches vs a wide enough amount of oppoents to know it wasn't just him being carried. His disapointing Sin Cara run might hurt his chances unless he turns things around though with Konnan getting in maybe not as the precedent is thear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I haven't done much research specifically for this, at least yet, so these are the candidates that interest me at first glance: Gene & Ole Anderson: A weak class of historical candidates, but there is something here. Maybe it's because I grew up in the Carolinas, but these guys had an aura about them, even years later. I disagree with the idea that staying in one territory is necessarily a negative. I think it's also incredibly complimentary—their act obviously played well enough that they didn't HAVE to move to another territory. John Cena: The closest thing to a main event star the business has seen in a decade. If not Cena, who? Rock & Roll Express: Just as good as the Midnight Express and more important to the box office. I don't know about this team, but I was a big fan. Sgt. Slaughter: Interesting candidate. Excellent worker in his day and a top star for several years. But the gimmick's staying power, or lack thereof, maybe kills his candidacy. Volk Han: Best technical wrestler I've ever seen. If there is such a thing as a "worker" candidate, it doesn't get better than Han. Non Wrestlers: Jerry Jarrett: Great promoter. Innovative promoter. Certain guys being in before him eats me up. Gorilla Monsoon: I love Monsoon as the voice of our first national promotion. I'd like to know more about his role behind the scenes. Thoughts? How am I wrong? Why? I'd like to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think we're almost enough removed from the indy boom of the 00s that we can really look at how much of it had to do with Punk, Bryan, Joe and Homicide. Now that those guys aren't around, indy wrestling has really fallen apart. They created enough demand for themselves and worked a full schedule in the immediate aftermath of a WWE monopoly. Whether that's a HOF case or not, I don't know. But it's a positive, and I think we're at the point where we can reflect on it and discuss its impact and significance a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Jimmy Hart wasn't added to the ballot. Did anyone who emailed Dave about adding him actually get a reply? I tried to bring it up numerous times last year, posting on the F4W board and e-mailing in but never got a response. For me, Jimmy Hart & The Matsunaga family are the 2 biggest ommisions from the HoF that I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think Han is a very tough candidate to peg because he's totally unique. A master of a style that is incredibly difficult to master and a guy who is widely regarded as the best within that style. RINGS was a successful promotion for years and though Han was the top gajin the promotion was structured differently than other promotions in Japan and it's hard to call him a drawing card in any real sense of the word. Then there is the fact that the guy has probably worked fewer matches in his career than Vince McMahon which just complicates matters. Yohe has all the RINGS attendance stuff up at Classics and I remember looking over it last year and thinking you could make a skeleton of a case for Han as an all time worker, who was at least near the top of a lot of successful shows. But having so few matches and working in such an esoteric style is something I can't completely overcome. If I had a vote and Hamada wasn't on the ballot I'd vote for him just to give someone from the Japan category a vote and offset the other guys who don't deserve to be in. Jarrett is screwed because wrestlers hate him because he paid shitty. I am convinced that's the only reason he's not in already. Sarge is someone I am actually less high on as a a candidate after watching the AWA stuff as he was really a non-factor there for the most part even if he was still a great worker. His peak as a draw was incredibly high though and you could point to the SD's as draws in the AWA before his initial departure, though not on a massive level. To me Sarge is the cut off guy, with everyone under him out and everyone over him in. Totally agree with you on the RnR's and Cena. Andersons are tough to me. I can see a case, but I want to know how unique there run was and how special it was at the box office. Buddy Rose was the biggest box office draw in Portland wrestling history and no one - including key rivals of his and people who hate him - denies that. Were the Andersons better draws than the Scott brothers or Hawk/Hansen? I'm not saying it disqualfies them if they weren't, but I'm curious and don't know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I don't think Punk or Danielson is a particularly strong candidate. Mistico is a terrible wrestler, but what I know of his drawing power it would be hard to argue against him. If Punk & Danielson can manage a few more years as top or near top guys in WWE I think both will have great chances of getting in. With Danielson, several years of being a good pick for best in ring worker walking the planet makes him a lock for the crowd that values work rate. Add in another run as World Champ or atleast a while longer as a main event lvl guy in the WWE and it'll get him over the hump with enough of the voters who value star power/drawing/championships/other non wrestling related criteria that I think he'll make it in. With Punk he has more star power then Danielson as he's been among the top 3 most popular full time guys on the roster for a while now and he's a good enough worker to get points with the work rate crowd too. With Mistico I thought he was awesome before he left Mexico and saw him have enough good/great matches vs a wide enough amount of oppoents to know it wasn't just him being carried. His disapointing Sin Cara run might hurt his chances unless he turns things around though with Konnan getting in maybe not as the precedent is thear. I didn't say I didn't think they'd get in. I think they will all get in, probably all on the first ballot. Bryan will get in as a worker even if he slips down to the mid-card and never wrestles another main event again. No one with his resume of WON Awards as a worker isn't getting in. Punk will get in as the first indy darling to really get over as a major star in the big time and being a Jericho type guy when it comes to getting over big time feuds/angles. He'd have to have at least one really strong run at the box office for me to vote for him, which may happen. But I have my doubts because of how shitty the booking is. Mistico will almost definitely get in first ballot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puropotsy Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I would probably put Bryan just slightly ahead of Punk as a candidate based on his body of work, reflected in the WON community by his outstanding wrestler awards. The point of Punk being the most successful indy darling and being like Jericho is a good one. I would vote for both and think both will go in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Jerry Jarrett does seem like he should already have been in, like years ago. Sucks if he gets kept out because wrestler didn't like their payoffs. Can't really compare payouts from Memphis to another territory like Mid-South because Memphis ticket prices were always really cheap weren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Where is this former Wrestlers hate Jerry Jarrett talking point coming from? Certainly not from the voting last year. Is Jeff Hardy above or below Edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I would rate Hardy as pretty lateral to Edge as a candidate, perhaps slightly above. The former wrestlers/Jarrett thing is a fact. You may say "but wrestlers voted for him in higher numbers than other groups!" but the point is that Jarrett's over all standing is more negative because of the consistent refrain that he didn't pay worth a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Posting this in good spirits. Breakdown by category of the most popular candidates in 2011: ACTIVE WRESTLERS 1. Steve Williams 2. Atlantis 3. Curtis Iaukea 4. Kent Walton 5. Jesse Ventura 6. Curt Hennig 7. Rock & Roll Express 8. Carlos Colon 9. Owen Hart 10. Gorilla Monsoon FORMER WRESTLERS 1. Dick Murdoch 2. Curtis Iaukea 3. Assassins 4. Gene & Ole Anderson 5. Jerry Jarrett 6. Ivan Koloff 7. Edge 8. Fabulous Moolah 9. Rock & Roll Express 10. Jesse Ventura REPORTERS 1. Steve Williams 2. Assassins 3. Kent Walton 4. Kensuke Sasaki 5. Rollerball Mark Rocco 6. Jesse Ventura 7. Gene & Ole Anderson 8. Hans Schmidt 9. Volk Han 10. Big Daddy HISTORIANS 1. Enrique Torres 2. Curtis Iaukea 3. Hans Schmidt 4. Henri DeGlane 5. Fabulous Moolah 6. Ivan Koloff 7. Gary Hart 8. Carlos Colon 9. Lou Albano 10. Mick McManus Just to remind people Steve Williams, Curtis Iaukea and Kent Walton were all voted in. As you stated Jerry is mostly voted for by (former) wrestlers. But Jerry doesn't chart in any other category. To me Memphis being perceived as a small, comedic promotion has a lot more to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 You may be right, but I'm skeptical of that because if anything the general impression of Memphis seems to have gone up over the last half dozen years. On the other hand you still see "big fish, little pond" arguments all the time at Classics and elsewhere. Of course it could be a combination of both things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Of course it could be a combination of both things. Agreed. I'd be more on the "skin flint Jerry" train of thought if he had more historian and reporter support and wrestlers were the ones blocking Jerry's induction. But obviously there are wrestlers who hold a grudge about working for Jerry most notably Steve Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 So will Bastien get the death bump this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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