TV Ratings Matter

[Johnny Sorrow]

And as far as PPV numbers go, I still say a big part of them being down is because they cost too much. I pay it each month cause it's my "gift" to myself. But nearly 50 bucks a month is just too much in this economy for a lot of people I'd imagine.

[Loss]

I still think booking is a big issue, and I tend to think if the booking was better, a lot of the other problems would take care of themselves. PPV is down because match results don't feel important.

[MJH]

Attendance and PPV buys are the two primary indicators of who is willing to pay to see the product in real time. Not coincidentally, Vince himself has said on many occasions that he considers them to be the main indicators of whether the product is really clicking for the fans. Since WWE is a publicly traded company, we can look at its 10-K reports and get the figures going all the way back to 1996. I'll have a more detailed write-up later, but suffice it to say that the numbers aren't pretty. It's worth noting that PPV numbers have been artificially inflated for a while now by international buys. Does anybody know exactly when the UK stopped getting all the PPVs for free?

If I remember correctly, it came after Channel 4 (terrestial/basic network channel) picked up the rights for four pay-per-views in 2000, an ill-fated run that ended up with the pay-per-views being delayed fifty minutes and having adverts put in. I remember Rumble 2000, Backlash 2000, and at least as far as Invasion being on there, so my guess would be in 2002?

[anarchistxx]

A summary of WWE PPVs in the UK;

 

- Every show free to cable subscribers (with the Sky Sports package) up until 2002

- Between 1999 and 2001, four shows a year ran on terrestrial/basic television, Vengeance 2001 being the last of these

- From 2002 onwards four of the events became PPV, although Royal Rumble was the only 'big four' event to make the switch the Sky Box Office

- Around 2004 the free shows started getting phased out, until eventually about a couple of years later almost every show became PPV

 

That's how I remember it anyway, I know for a fact I watched Wrestlemania XX for free and I believe Wrestlemania 21.

 

The shows on terrestrial Chennel 4 did have adverts and thus must have been on some kind of time delay. It can't have been a huge delay though, as I recall staying up as a kid to watch Royal Rumble and I'm pretty sure it finished around 4AM which is standard time. I do remember there being some protests from kids groups that Royal Rumble 2000 was on terrestrial, what with Mae Young's tits and the brutal Triple-H/Cactus match.

[Dylan Waco]

I still think booking is a big issue, and I tend to think if the booking was better, a lot of the other problems would take care of themselves. PPV is down because match results don't feel important.

I think this is indisputably true and don't want to come across like I think it is irrelevant.

 

Having said that, it is obvious that the WWE is popular with kids - it is not really popular with adults anymore. This could be changed with booking and actually getting behind a real star. But I honestly believe the changes in the business AND the changes in the technology make it highly unlikely that we will ever see a boom of the sorts in previous times even if the booking was the best in the history of wrestling. At least not a boom that will be measurable in huge ppv buys/ratings.

[jdw]

I disagree with that. Who in 1992-94 thought we'd see a boom like 1986-87 again where two national promotions were reasonably strong? I didn't.

 

I don't have much faith in the current leadership in pro wrestling. But it's not like I had any in the leadership back in 1992-94.

 

John

[Dylan Waco]

Oh I think we might see another boom - but I think if we do it will coincide with a drastic change in the way wrestling is presented, marketed and distributed.

[NintendoLogic]

And as far as PPV numbers go, I still say a big part of them being down is because they cost too much. I pay it each month cause it's my "gift" to myself. But nearly 50 bucks a month is just too much in this economy for a lot of people I'd imagine.

I think the cost factor is overblown. A five-dollar increase alone doesn't cause a drop from 5 million buys in 2008 to 3.6 million in 2010.

 

Having said that, it is obvious that the WWE is popular with kids - it is not really popular with adults anymore.

Dave made a couple of posts on the F4W board a while back. In the first, he talked about two friends of his who are elementary school teachers. According to them, wrestling was huge a couple of years ago, but now no one cares anymore. In the second, he talked about Raw viewership. In 1999, when the product was at the peak of its raunchiness, 2.83 million kids watched every week. Today, that number is 940,000. So the WWE is as third as popular among kids now as it was when it was as kid-unfriendly as it's ever been.

[Gregor]

In 1999, when the product was at the peak of its raunchiness, 2.83 million kids watched every week. Today, that number is 940,000. So the WWE is as third as popular among kids now as it was when it was as kid-unfriendly as it's ever been.

I wouldn't really describe 1999 WWF as kid-unfriendly. It had breasts and lots of swearing. Kids want to see that kind of stuff. I feel like Vince Russo's sense of humor would appeal more to kids than it would to adults.1999 WWF was more parent-unfriendly than kid-unfriendly, and I don't know how many parents barred their kids from watching.

[El-P]

In 1999, when the product was at the peak of its raunchiness, 2.83 million kids watched every week. Today, that number is 940,000. So the WWE is as third as popular among kids now as it was when it was as kid-unfriendly as it's ever been.

I wouldn't really describe 1999 WWF as kid-unfriendly. It had breasts and lots of swearing. Kids want to see that kind of stuff. I feel like Vince Russo's sense of humor would appeal more to kids than it would to adults.1999 WWF was more parent-unfriendly than kid-unfriendly, and I don't know how many parents barred their kids from watching.

 

It was appealing to young teenagers and young immature adults, but I don't think an 8 years old would get a kick out of saying "suck it" while pointing to his crotch, or would want to see Debra's "puppies". Russo's booking was juvenile, but had nothing appealing to childhood, at least from my standpoint.

[jdw]

Oh I think we might see another boom - but I think if we do it will coincide with a drastic change in the way wrestling is presented, marketed and distributed.

I suspect it will only be something close to what we saw in the last boom: hot TV content, or what is the equiv of TV content at that point.

 

John

[Victator]

In 1999, when the product was at the peak of its raunchiness, 2.83 million kids watched every week. Today, that number is 940,000. So the WWE is as third as popular among kids now as it was when it was as kid-unfriendly as it's ever been.

I wouldn't really describe 1999 WWF as kid-unfriendly. It had breasts and lots of swearing. Kids want to see that kind of stuff. I feel like Vince Russo's sense of humor would appeal more to kids than it would to adults.1999 WWF was more parent-unfriendly than kid-unfriendly, and I don't know how many parents barred their kids from watching.

 

It was appealing to young teenagers and young immature adults, but I don't think an 8 years old would get a kick out of saying "suck it" while pointing to his crotch, or would want to see Debra's "puppies". Russo's booking was juvenile, but had nothing appealing to childhood, at least from my standpoint.

 

They love Steve Austin and the Undertaker.

[Johnny Sorrow]

In 1999, when the product was at the peak of its raunchiness, 2.83 million kids watched every week. Today, that number is 940,000. So the WWE is as third as popular among kids now as it was when it was as kid-unfriendly as it's ever been.

I wouldn't really describe 1999 WWF as kid-unfriendly. It had breasts and lots of swearing. Kids want to see that kind of stuff. I feel like Vince Russo's sense of humor would appeal more to kids than it would to adults.1999 WWF was more parent-unfriendly than kid-unfriendly, and I don't know how many parents barred their kids from watching.

 

It was appealing to young teenagers and young immature adults, but I don't think an 8 years old would get a kick out of saying "suck it" while pointing to his crotch, .

 

Well, while it may seem awful, during the last boom all the kids in my neighborhood were crotch chopping and yelling "Suck it" at each other while playing football and what all.

 

I think the cost factor is overblown. A five-dollar increase alone doesn't cause a drop from 5 million buys in 2008 to 3.6 million in 2010.

It does when the economy is in the shitter. And they were too expensive before the 5 dollar increase, imo.

[Bix]

At the beginning of 2008, there was also the addition of the HD PPVs, which are $10 more on some cable systems.

 

Also, the point isn't that $5 more a month isn't going to break the bank, it's that people have a point where they feel the shows are too expensive and going over $40 made a bad situation worse.

[KrisZ]

Yeah but they can get PPV's on illegal streams and the like which can hurt.

[NintendoLogic]

It's not that the economy and prices and illegal streaming aren't factors at all. But I think that the terrible booking is a bigger factor.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I look at it this way. It's way easier and more fun to say "it's the booking" because that's something we can argue/ discuss. When you factor in the realities of cost in a shitty economy..that's not stuff that's at all fun to talk about. I just don't see a parent telling their 12 year-old that Wrestling PPV's have to go bye bye for now because "the booking isn't good." I'm in no way saying that there isn't a portion of fans who don't pay for shows because they think the shows aren't worth it because of booking, but to be honest, it seems most of them either find those streams and twitter furiously about how "bad" everything is.. or don't even watch anymore, for a variety of reasons..the most popular one being "I grew out of it", but are still compelled to share their opinion on what they didn't see.

[Dylan Waco]

I look at it this way. It's way easier and more fun to say "it's the booking" because that's something we can argue/ discuss. When you factor in the realities of cost in a shitty economy..that's not stuff that's at all fun to talk about. I just don't see a parent telling their 12 year-old that Wrestling PPV's have to go bye bye for now because "the booking isn't good." I'm in no way saying that there isn't a portion of fans who don't pay for shows because they think the shows aren't worth it because of booking, but to be honest, it seems most of them either find those streams and twitter furiously about how "bad" everything is.. or don't even watch anymore, for a variety of reasons..the most popular one being "I grew out of it", but are still compelled to share their opinion on what they didn't see.

Totally agree with this.

[jdw]

I look at it this way. It's way easier and more fun to say "it's the booking" because that's something we can argue/ discuss. When you factor in the realities of cost in a shitty economy..that's not stuff that's at all fun to talk about. I just don't see a parent telling their 12 year-old that Wrestling PPV's have to go bye bye for now because "the booking isn't good." I'm in no way saying that there isn't a portion of fans who don't pay for shows because they think the shows aren't worth it because of booking, but to be honest, it seems most of them either find those streams and twitter furiously about how "bad" everything is.. or don't even watch anymore, for a variety of reasons..the most popular one being "I grew out of it", but are still compelled to share their opinion on what they didn't see.

Booking is just a catch-all for the fact that the product hasn't held the fan base in what fans think is worth watching. Fewer fans watch now than at the peak. Fewer buy PPVs. Fewer go to live shows.

 

Money? Only slightly.

 

They just aren't compelled to follow, watch and pay for it as much anymore.

 

In the end, it's _always_ the Product that drives that. It certainly hasn't been priced out relative to other forms of entertainment.

 

John

[NintendoLogic]

The problem with using the economy as an excuse is that there are too many examples of wrestling doing well despite bad economic numbers. In 1982, the US was in the middle of a severe recession. That year, 1.3 million people attended wrestling events in the state of Texas alone. By comparison, total attendance at all WWE events worldwide in 2011 was 1.98 million. In addition, puro did huge business during Japan's Lost Decade. Hell, Jim Londos was a monster draw during the Great Depression. It's true that a lousy economy would disproportionately impact the spending habits of children and the poor and uneducated. But it's not an accident or an act of God that those are the WWE's primary demographics. It's because the product so frequently insults the intelligence of the viewer that that every other demographic has been largely driven away. This isn't just speculation on my part, either. Look at the most recent TVN survey of sports fans. Not only is the percentage of fans who say they have no interest in wrestling higher than it's ever been, interest is down among every income and education bracket except for high school dropouts and those with family incomes of less than $20,000 a year.

[Jingus]

Ticket price inflation is also a factor. How much did it cost to attend those shows in the depressed eras you mentioned? I bet it's a hell of a lot less in today's dollars than the prices they're charging for PPVs. Plus, there wasn't nearly as much competition on the entertainment front. Drawing great houses or ratings is easier to do when there are only three or four TV stations on the air.

[Sean Liska]

There's a million things to look at when comparing WWE business to other eras. TV ratings are down for everything except for the NFL because of how many channels there are, internet, video games, etc. Attending a live event has never been more expensive - it can cost $90 to get a good lower deck seat for a PPV nowadays. PPV prices are crazy high, $55 is a major investment for 3 hours of entertainment. WWE gives away a lot more on TV than in other eras, hurting PPV business to a degree, but they make a killing off of TV rights and use the star-powered TV shows to tour in foreign countries where they charge a ton of money for tickets.

 

But the bottom line is still that the company makes a bunch of money, Vince is obscenely rich, and the main guys are all riding around on tour buses. So it's not really worth worrying about.