Loss Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Punk/Lawler was really good, with an angle that felt very Jim Crockett Promotions to close things out. The crowd ruined it, although they did pop for the Cena run-in. I think the problem is that they train their audience to view WWE as light-hearted comedy where the good guys always win and the bad guys are always emasculated. Then, when they try to do an actual wrestling angle, it doesn't get the response it deserves. It's hard to do stuff like this on top when the whole mood of the show swings in so many directions. There's no real overall coherence in whatever emotion it is they want people to feel when watching the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 The crowd died after the Trips segment plus Punk is still someone they want to cheer and Lawler isn't big in Green Bay. He never got a big pop tonight at all throughout the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 I think it's worth discussing why it is they still want to cheer Punk. I don't think Punk's performance is the issue. I think it's a systemic flaw. Wrestlers who are pushed hard and win more than they lose tend to get over as babyfaces more in the modern setting because people react to stars. It makes me wonder if it's possible to create a strong heel at that level anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Well I think the angle tonight was the one that cemented his turn because he was teetering for weeks but this attack should do the job. There is one problem though RAW is in Chicago next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Mark Henry didn't seem to have too much trouble getting over as a heel last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 We all (deservedly so) get on WWE for their bad comedy but man those anger management bits were terrific. Sad to see Lawler get very little reaction tonight. He was great. That's been his problem for almost 20 years in the company. He's just not over in certain markets and the younger fans don't seem to realize how awesome he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 The Anger stuff was strong with Scorpio Sky being great as Harold and cameos from GQ Money from XPW and Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Haven't watched the whole show yet. I will, and I'm sure it was well done. I guess my point is that it seems like there should be a consistency in tone throughout the show, especially if they're planning to do a serious angle on top. I guess there are two schools of thought. One is that the serious angles stand out more if the undercard isn't filled with them too. The opposing school of thought would be that it's harder to sell people on serious angles because the show is filled with bad comedy so much of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 - 8/27 Raw: Kane's anger management monologue. "I grew up locked in a basement, suffering severe psychological and emotional scarring when my brother set my parents on fire. From there, I shifted around among a series of mental institutions until I was grown, at which point I buried my brother alive---twice. Since then, I've set a couple of people on fire and abducted various co-workers. Oh, and I once electrocuted a man's testicles. Years ago, I had a girlfriend named Katie, but uh... let's just say, that didn't turn out so well. My real father is a guy named Paul Bearer, who I recently trapped in a meat locker. I've been married, divorced, broke up my ex-wife's wedding and Tombstoned the priest. And for reasons never quite explained, I have an unhealthy obsession with torturing Pete Rose." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Kane's anger management speech was similar in tone and how it was shot to George Costanza's pitch for the apartment on the Seinfeld episode where he was competing with his tragic story against the survivor of a shipwreck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Does no one else see a conflict between CM Punk beating Jerry Lawler to a pulp while forcing him to admit that he's the best in the world, and Vicki Guerrero not understanding that Miss Piggy is a fictional puppet and getting in an argument with her? It's wrestling, and they can go either way in their presentation. I just wish they'd pick one voice and stick to it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 I don't think silly comedy in the undercard is a big deal as long as it's clearly segregated from the main event. I'd say one of the things that hurt Kurt Angle's drawing power was him constantly bouncing back and forth between harmless goofball and vicious killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Does no one else see a conflict between CM Punk beating Jerry Lawler to a pulp while forcing him to admit that he's the best in the world, and Vicki Guerrero not understanding that Miss Piggy is a fictional puppet and getting in an argument with her? It's wrestling, and they can go either way in their presentation. I just wish they'd pick one voice and stick to it all the time. It's just the way it's always been. On WM 8 you had the Nasty Boys, the Mountie, and Repo Man in an 8 man tag RIGHT before the fairly emotionally charged Macho vs Flair match and it worked. It all worked. Vince takes the circus approach. Here's the clown. If you don't like that, the lion tamer is next, and if you don't like that, here come the acrobats, and hey, let's finish with a bit of Shakespeare just to hammer it all home. I find Jimmy Valiant vs Paul Jones (ESPECIALLY When he started doing the military stuff) as outlandish as anything WWE generally does. But that works on the same show as Arn and Ole vs Buzz Sawyer and Dick Slater. It's wrestling. When Punk was clubbering Lawler's face over and over and over at the end, it worked, everything else before it be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 All this time I thought Ryback would kill someone with that clothesline he does, but he almost Droz'd poor Swagger with that backdrop tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 edit: wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Punk/Lawler was really good, with an angle that felt very Jim Crockett Promotions to close things out. Also that times a billion. It seemed to really hammer the point how important it is to have an announcer who can put over what we're witnessing. It's cliche to mention how badly they need JR, but even a David Crockett type losing his shit at the horrors taking place in the ring would have sold this as a dastardly act. Instead we have interchangeable clones too afraid of losing their jobs to stand out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Kind of interesting useless trivia. Since the Hogan II reign (Mania IV to Mania IV), the longest WWE & World Title reigns: 380 Cena III 358 Diesel 293 Warrior He's going to pass Warrior. Survivor Series would take him past Diesel. If he makes it to Rumble and The Rock without dropping it, that's 434 days. Longest since Hogan I... longest in 25 years. Gotta think they'll do a quick turn around someplace between now and the Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 All this time I thought Ryback would kill someone with that clothesline he does, but he almost Droz'd poor Swagger with that backdrop tonight. More like he almost Sabu'd him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Kane recapping his entire WWE career in the most matter-of-factly way possible was one of the best things they've done in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 anyone else notice than Natty looked a bit thicker in the mid section area last night (by wrestling standards) after having an absolutely shredded stomach at the July 4th SD almost 2 months ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Man, that Cena/ Miz match was fucking fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 The match was fine, but it just reminded me how much better they're booking Cesaro as the US champ and he's involved in an angle with a guy using a cobra puppet as a euphemism for his dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 So I guess I'm the only person alive who got that Cole was doing his best "Dr. Bob Hartley" when commentating with Kane tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Does no one else see a conflict between CM Punk beating Jerry Lawler to a pulp while forcing him to admit that he's the best in the world, and Vicki Guerrero not understanding that Miss Piggy is a fictional puppet and getting in an argument with her? It's wrestling, and they can go either way in their presentation. I just wish they'd pick one voice and stick to it all the time.That'd be the same Jerry Lawler who would fight Frankenstein Monsters one week and Dutch Mantell the next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'm not sure it truly was "the next week", and I'm not sure the stuff on the WM8 undercard was really "Hahaha, wrestling is so fake", but if it was, that's not really any better just because it happened a long time ago. Anyway, there are flaws in WWE's presentation that make it hard for fans to emotionally invest in serious angles. I don't see how anyone can dispute that point. Tonight is proof of that, but there are plenty of other examples. I'm just trying to have a conversation about what in their presentation makes stuff like this not have great heat. I don't think you can blame it all on the death of kayfabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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