80s Wrestling Party #2

[soup23]

Rewatched the Bock/Wahoo match again after the podcast. What a war.

 

Matches on Tuesday were really fun and had some great moments. I thought matches 1-5 tonight on end of show list were great matches and I did enjoy the Bockwinkle studio glimpse. Bock/Wahoo is an all timer.

[Matt D]

I look forward to listening and babbling here about it on Monday.

[goodhelmet]

We give you a shout out Matt but unintentionally.

[Matt D]

Starting now. As with last time. I will liveblog this right here, since no one demanded it. I can't wait to hear Parv/Johnny Sorrow interaction. Also, I hate calling him Parv when VON KRAMER is right there.

 

"We will help you get real perspective on Minneapolis in 1983, our british brother."

"Man, that looks like where Mad Dog cooks meth."

 

It's funny when Johnny takes over due to baby crying and phones ringer and the entire feel of the podcast shifts. It turns into a cable access show with a lot of tie-die.

 

As far as shout outs go, that was pretty weak. And now I feel like I need to post on that Who are you? PWO note to clear out my geographic background. Though I suppose there's not much difference between Boston and New Jersey when you're languishing in Texas.

 

Tim is a very soft-spoken gent.

[Matt D]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2011/07/12/18409521.html

 

More than you ever wanted to know about Steve O.

 

Buck vs Regal is 147 for me. Frigging Regal. Thanks Will. I can't wait til you guys have to suffer through that.

 

The long shine in the tag worked for me because they did it well, because the fip on Steve O was even longer, and mainly because it was on Patera and not Blackwell. I had that tag as the 8 on the disc, but that might have been a structure thing. I'll look at it again probably.

 

I remember Saito vs Hogan being a nice novelty, really energetic and a good performance by Saito as a chickenshit, but not much of a match. I have it at the very high end of my bottom 25. I'm glad that the set up was included though. Saito's one of the real stars of the first half of the set, I think. I can't get behind asshole Hogan the asshole like you can. It was superfluous at this point. I think if some of the things he did were switched around a bit, it would have worked better. He led with the leg drop and then kept doing other things aimlessly.

 

Let's see if you guys can convince me of the greatness of Bock vs Wahoo, because right now it's sitting at my tentative #45. I have Wahoo vs Hennig from 12/27/87 at #18, so it won't even be my #1 Wahoo match on the set.

 

It's definitely hard to keep the Tims apart. Tim Evans. Tim Livingston. Tim Cooke. Tim Noel. But Evans is easy to remember since he's the FCW guy.

 

"Are you in your 60s?"

 

There are some moments in the Bock vs Wahoo match I can get absolutely get behind. The Chair shots by Bock. The sleeper counter. Bock's bumping around and general desperation. The finish. I'm fine with all the offense being chops and punches.

 

It is absolutely spectacle. 100% It was a war. It's just not my thing. One guy beating on another in the most violent brutal way possible doesn't excite me. Bock's responses and reaction are the entirety of this match to me. And that I can get behind completely. It's enough to push it up into my top 50 and that is saying something, but it only gets so far. I'm not saying Wahoo doesn't bring something, because of course he does. It's just that what he brings isn't that interesting to me. A lot of it feels just like really gritty violence for the sake of violence. It's almost like watching a spotfest, except for instead of crazy moves (and a real master responding to them), you just get brutal stiff strikes.

 

Glad you guys had so much fun watching it though.

[Exposer]

Bock-Wahoo is my current #3. I'm only part way through disc 4 because I re-started a week and a half ago after only finishing through 2 discs and part of disc 3 in the summer. I thought it was awesome on second watch. It just didn't feel as novel the second time around. It wasn't as fresh and didn't feel quite as epic. I have the 3/13/83 6-Man and Blackwell-Mad Dog Algerian Death Match ahead of it. If I do some more re-watches once I complete my initial viewings maybe it'll squeeze in a bit higher but I still have a LOT to watch.

[Matt D]

I do have the tag match that followed at #7. First we get Johnny's Tie-Die History lesson. Then we get a lovely rendition of the song from the Muppet Movie.

 

Oh awesome. Parv just brings up the 60s Riddler. This is where I have to bring up that Repo Man was patterned after Goshin and completely independently, Borne watched Burgess Meredith to learn how to play Doink. Unfortunately, they never teamed.

 

I totally bought Murdoch in 91 when I was 10, btw. That was surprising to hear from Will.

 

I LOVE the splash transition to lead to the FIP in this match. He misses it So much (even in this match) so when he hits it, it is HUGE. Brian Blair is my personal Mike Rotundo. Guy bores the hell out of me. Also, I really think Brunzell is the find of the set, even more so than Blackwell, because a lot of people didn't have an opinion one way or the other of Blackwell, but everyone discounted Brunzell.

[Exposer]

That tag is awesome and has an out of this world FIP segment.

 

Brunzell certainly has been a find. I've become a big fan of his offense off the hot tag but he's real sharp in peril too.

 

His singles work is pretty damn good as well. I've enjoyed all three of his singles bouts so far with Bock, Adonis, and Jumbo.

[Matt D]

It'd be awesome if Johnny's dad really was Mad Dog Vachon. Johnny's impressions are going to get me fired for cracking up at work.

 

Those fish hooks are so awesome. Best offensive move on the set, even better than the JAM SLAM. Not better than Orton's crazy reverse Calf Branding though.

 

Will shitting on Johnny's Boston Crab story was just said. I wanted to hear stories regaled of him using the Stretch Plum to win bar fights or something.

 

"Johnny Sorrow: Bringing more Paul Lynde to the table." during the popeye impression was what finally broke me, btw.

 

I had these seven as

 

1. Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. High Flyers (11/24/83)

2. Crusher Blackwell vs. Mad Dog Vachon (Algerian Death Match) (5/22/83)

3. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Wahoo McDaniel (8/28/83)

4. Crusher Blackwell & Ken Patera vs. Dino Bravo & Steve O (8/28/83)

5. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Brad Rheingans (7/3/83)

6. Nick Bockwinkel vs. Mad Dog Vachon (11/24/83)

7. Hulk Hogan vs. Mr. Saito (8/28/83)

 

I need to rewatch the Bravo/Steve O match, at the least. Interestingly, a ton of people have that mid disc 2 as well.

[goodhelmet]

Ther eis nothing you could say that would convince me that the Steve O nd Rheingans matches are better than the Hogan-Saito match and Rheingans match. Also, if you don't like violence for the sake of violence, I dont know how you would get through Purrto Rico when that set is done.

[Matt D]

Almost everyone on the DVDVR board that have posted disc 2 rankings so far have the Steve O tag ranked above Hogan vs Saito, so it's not like it's a fringe view.

 

As for PR, if Tim Noel can make it through the AWA set, I imagine I could make it through the PR set and just send in a completely ridiculous ballot. To me, though, there's very little difference between violence for the sake of violence and crazy spots for the sake of crazy spots. That's not to say that's entirely what Bock vs Wahoo was, but it did seem to be a lot of what you guys were marking out for. And in the moment when watching that stuff, I get why someone might mark out for it too. I've been to ROH shows when I was younger where, when you see something crazy happening before your eyes, even in quick succession, it's only natural to go "Ohhhhh!" but when you go back and examine the match to see how it holds up relative to the other best matches of a promotion in a decade, well, for me, it was right around #40.

[soup23]

Im shocked that people would have that Steve O tag ranked favorably. I wouldnt call it offensive but it struck me as the typical decent tag match. I for instance didn't think it was even as good a match as something like MX vs. SST from Clash 6.

[Matt D]

Ok just did a quick count.

 

Out of 13 people who posted Disc 2 rankings on DVDVR only Parv and Will have the Steve O tag below the Hogan vs Saito match.

 

So again, not a fringe view and a pretty clear majority. Which isn't saying anything. It's just interesting.

 

And very few people have it ranked FAVORABLY. It's middle of the pack on almost every disc 2 ranking so far. It's just that almost everyone ranked Hogan vs Saito unfavorably.

 

Oh, and in case I didn't say it, it was another really fun show that I enjoyed.

[shoe]

I had the Steve O tag from disc 3 DFL on that disc. On the 2nd disc I have Hogan/Saito next to last. It is safe to say neither match did anything for me.

[Dylan Waco]

Ther eis nothing you could say that would convince me that the Steve O nd Rheingans matches are better than the Hogan-Saito match and Rheingans match. Also, if you don't like violence for the sake of violence, I dont know how you would get through Purrto Rico when that set is done.

I still haven't listened to this yet, but to me Saito v. Hogan is like the Kanemura v. Smothers of the ECW Set - I'm glad it's on there, it was novel and I liked what they did. But it wasn't a great match. Offhand I would guess it's the worst Saito match on the set and it's not the best Hogan singles match. I still haven't submitted a ballot, but it's it will definitely be in my bottom half and possibly my bottom third, which isn't a knock on the match, so much as it is that there is a lot of other stuff I really liked. I liked it better than Bock v. Rheingans, but thought The Sheiks v. Bravo/Steve O match was better.

[goodhelmet]

Listen to the show. I think we explained why we liked it.

[Matt D]

You liked it because Hogan was a force of destruction and his offense looked good.

 

That's what I got out of it, with a bit of Saito playing his role well.

[Dylan Waco]

Listen to the show. I think we explained why we liked it.

I will.

 

I would say ahead of time though that Saito v. Hogan is exactly the sort of match that will benefit dramatically from being watched party line style with dudes cutting jokes left and right. It's a fun match.

[goodhelmet]

That sounds bout right. With that said, I liked it when we were making the set too.

[JerryvonKramer]

Certainly watching it in that setting raised my estimation of the match, which is mentioned. I think other people are contagious though, Will and Johnny's enthusiasm for the Siato match rubbed off on me. Ditto for the Vachon vs. Bock match which I really enjoyed more with everyone marking out at the brutal spots. I think it might work the other way too though; the fact I am so down on that Brad Rhennigans match made it a talking point and basically everyone else was down on it too or had it lower than they might have otherwise. Everyone was down on Steve O, and lo and behold everyone had it bottom or bottom from one. It's not a herd mentality, it's just a natural part of watching something as a group.

 

It's a very different dynamic from watching matches on your own and posting independent thoughts on DVDR. I wouldn't watch the whole set that way, but I do think it makes you see some matches in a different light.

[goodhelmet]

Jerry, the difference is several of the matches I have seen in both settings. I went back and looked at my comments and they were consistent. I thought Adonis-Hogan was lame early on and though the same watching in the party. The matches I liked then, I liked now. I was trying to troll Chad on one of the matches he didn't like (forget which one) but then he changed his mind and it was over. It wasn't like one person was marking out over Steve O and the group shouted him down. Everyone thought that the face control segment was pretty lame and non-descript. Also, at random times during the matches, I try to get guys to speak up and give their thoughts. If they disagree with the "consensus" but don't want a confrontation, well WTF? The whole purpose is to engage in conversation. I can't help it if everyone agrees with me on air.

[JerryvonKramer]

My personal experience is that it's both 1. a lot easier to disagree online on a message board than it is talking to someone face to face or over skype and 2. people tend to be more open to being turned around on things in person. In the times Chad and I have had real differences of opinion, after we hear each other out, I usually find myself seeing where he's coming from.

 

Obviously in this case though, it's just that everyone is scared of the Big Texan.

[BrickHithouse]

If online arguments happened the same in real life, every conversation ever held would end in a fistfight.

[goodhelmet]

No fucking shit!!! However, I don't want the Wrestling Party to be a verbal fistfight but I do want people to speak their minds. If you are the only person on air who hates/loves a match then at worst, if you disagree and lay out your reasons, it can make for some compelling listens. Hopefully, when we get through future discs, more disagreements will pop up.

[soup23]

I think the second half of disc 2 had more disagreements for us than the first half. Tim said he would go thumbs in the middle for High Flyers vs. Blackwell/Patera. I would call it a thumbs up match but it was #4 on the matches we watched last night and I doubt it will be in my top 20 when I turn in a ballot.