Marty Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Please tell me no one is going to defend that Raw. I was chatting with several people during the show - including a lot of people who have been much more favorable to me on the Mania build - and the consensus was that it was an unbelievably bad show. I guess the Triple Threat was better than expected, but my soul had been crushed by that point. I honestly can't imagine anyone thinking that show presented any sort of interesting build for Mania or even anything interesting to make someone keep watching. I can't believe I made it through the whole show and it was a total waste considering how much I have to watch. I didn't even make it through the whole show, technically. We get RAW 15 minutes late in Canada and when that triple threat match happened, I was much more interested in seeing if the Miami Heat could make it 23 in a row. The card for Mania doesn't actually look terrible and from a match quality standpoint it shouldn't be bad, but the build to it has been a chore to sit through. I'm actually not only expecting, but *hoping* that the World title match does open it, just because I have lower expectations for that match than any of the others. Get the least of the show over with first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 this has been the worst Mania build since probably WM 18. Last night's RAW was embarrassingly bad. They've been pretty damn good with the builds the last decade or so making this all the more disappointing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I am not a huge fan of the build so far but it has to be ahead of WM 27 in my eyes. Only one match had a good build on that PPV. Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't think the fundamentals of the build are particularly bad. There's nothing in the territory of Jericho running over HHH's dog. Heyman goaded HHH into putting his career on the line after his friends (HBK and Flair) both had their careers ended at Mania, Cena needs redemption against Rock, Taker is looking for revenge on Punk, Big Show is throwing aside face-heel alliances to try and stop the Shield, Ryback and Henry are jousting to see who's the baddest guy in the company, it's all pretty simple stuff. I think the 3-hr format is as responsible for sucking the life out of things as anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodySave Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 I think the biggest thing that bothers me about this year's Mania is there are actually a decent amount of midcard feuds that have been slowly simmering and building that could have to be brought to finality at this event....except now the participants have been scrambled just weeks before the event. The one that really stand out is The Shield vs Ryback feud. For months, since their debut, Ryback has been one of the main targets of the Shield. It's really amazing how quickly Ryback has fallen with live crowds in just a few months and I think you can directly point it to him not being in a properly organized feud since losing out against Punk. If I remember correctly, Shield was directly involved with Ryback losing his feud with Punk at a time when many people thought he could legitimately win the belt. Before the Rumble, all signs were pointing to Ryback even being involved with the title at Mania. Then, when that was clearly no longer the case, I figured "Well, they'll blow off the Shield vs Ryback feud in some fashion where Ryback is the first man to finally win against the Shield." Now.....he's taken out of the Mania 6-man tag (in which, inexplicably, Shield's recent conflict with Orton and Sheamus was more a focal point than Ryback) so that we can have Ryback vs. Mark Henry at Mania. Simply because they're two big monstrous dudes. Is that the gist of this feud? And the heel Big Show has been included in the 6-man tag as a babyface by virtue of The Shield inexplicably attacking him off the air after one of the TV shows. Also - now with The Shield seemingly suffering their first loss to random trio of Orton/Sheamus/Show, that loss won't elicit the emotional significance of Ryback & partners finally getting his revenge. As it stands, I think they're better off just having The Shield come out on top of this match. This is a weaker trio than the Sheamus/Ryback/Cena group they recently beat on PPV. Beyond that, you had Kane vs. Daniel Bryan teasing a breakup for WEEKS (which I actually like them as a team and see no reason to break them up right now, maybe in a couple months)....only to suddenly be back together. Oh, and they're defending the belts against Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston - have they EVER teamed in a TV match? Ziggler really should be involved with some sort of singles match on this card. I have no idea what they're doing with him right now. Then you have Barrett, Jericho, The Miz (who just had a nice triple threat match on RAW), Antonio Cesaro, among others. Cesaro and The Miz have had a nice feud...which seemingly ended just a couple weeks BEFORE Mania. Same with the conflict between Barrett & Sheamus. Barrett and Orton have also had a nice in-ring feud. If there wasn't now a dedicated PPV for it and Ziggler in possession of the case, this would have been a reasonable year to have a Money in the Bank match with Jericho, Ziggler, Miz, Barrett, Cesaro, someone else. All guys just a step below Heavyweight title tier clamoring for it. Hell, Ziggler can go into with the case he already has...if he wins, he now has a second backup case. Certainly has logic holes, but at least freshens up the gimmick. One interesting note: looking at recent matches - Cena vs. CM Punk, last night's triple threat, Del Rio vs Rhodes last night was good, the really good Ziggler vs. Miz match in the last two weeks - I really think there has been some excellent in-ring action on RAW leading to Mania this year. Much of it is getting lost in the shuffle due to many of us being underwhelmed with the Mania build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 According to Alvarez the Bellas/Layla/Tamina v Kaitlyn/Funkadactyles/Maria Menounous (!-have to protect that undefeated streak) will be added. Also, Cesaro v Kofi/Truth will be on the pre show. I assume Jericho v Fandango and Barrett/Miz will be added next week. that should fill out the card although I assume they might do something with Rhodes and Sandow (who obviously deserves to make the card) and Tensai and Brodus He also said Kofi is scheduled to turn heel soon. Makes sense as he's been in circles for months and months now oh and when did Layla turn heel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewar Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Layla has been showing jealously towards Kaitlyn lately because she has the belt. Layla stole a pin during a tag match on Smackdown last week. I don't think there should be a diva match on this card, the division is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't see a heel Kofi Kingston working at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't see a heel Kofi Kingston working at all. It can only work if they change everything about him including his dreads, his promos, his ring gear, his music, his horrible offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I don't see a heel Kofi Kingston working at all. It can only work if they change everything about him including his dreads, his promos, his ring gear, his music, his horrible offense. Haha yea pretty much that's exactly what I was thinking. There's nothing about him currently that seems like it would work as a heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 According to Alvarez the Bellas/Layla/Tamina v Kaitlyn/Funkadactyles/Maria Menounous (!-have to protect that undefeated streak) will be added. Also, Cesaro v Kofi/Truth will be on the pre show. I assume Jericho v Fandango and Barrett/Miz will be added next week. that should fill out the card although I assume they might do something with Rhodes and Sandow (who obviously deserves to make the card) and Tensai and Brodus He also said Kofi is scheduled to turn heel soon. Makes sense as he's been in circles for months and months now oh and when did Layla turn heel? Wasn't Fandango/Jericho made official on Raw? Can someone explain the Fandango gimmick to me, I have not seen video of him yet, nor do I really want to but I would like to know what his deal is. Also ugh an 8 diva tag match really? When will they give it up on that shit. Brodus/Albert vs. Cody/Sandow? Next. Barrett/Miz? Well it's a real match but it's kinda weird that Miz chased Cesaro & the US strap for months and then 2 weeks out he goes after Barrett & the IC strap. Seems to be a yearly booking rut with the midcard belts, having feuds they can't quite stretch into 'Mania itself. I'm cool with Kofi/Cesaro even with no build if it gets 10 minutes. So hypothetically that gives us: WWE Title: The Rock© vs. John Cena WHC: Alberto Del Rio© vs. Jack Swagger No Holds Barred: Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H The Undertaker vs. CM Punk The Shield vs. Big Show, Randall Keith Orton & Sheamus Tag Team Titles: Team Hell No© vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big Langston IC title: Wade Barrett vs. The Miz Fandango vs. Chris Jericho 8-Diva Tag Team match Brodus Clay & Tensai vs. The Rhodes Scholars Preshow match- US Title: Antonio Cesaro© vs. Kofi Kingston SO 11 matches? This will be like Wrestlemania 5 with 100 4 minute matches, only without Randy Savage, Arn Anderson & Tully to make me care. But I still have hopes that Taker/Punk suprise the hell out of me. Also that Lesnar's raw athleticism provides some WrestleMania Moments™. And I know Cena & Rock have a classic match down deep inside of them, just wish we had Pat Patterson to map one out for them. The rest just looks like a 3 hour Raw. Not a special one with a Jim Duggan match either, just a normal "2 weeks out from the Over the Limit ppv" kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Dylan seems to be getting his wish as according to PWI Punk will be taking some time off after Mania. In an ideal world he probably doesn't come back till the build to Summerslam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Dylan seems to be getting his wish as according to PWI Punk will be taking some time off after Mania. In an ideal world he probably doesn't come back till the build to Summerslam I don't get that line of thinking since every ppv is pretty much on the same level now outside of Mania. Plus the June ppv, titled "WWE Payback"(featuring Mel Gibson shooting people in search of his $15,000?) is in Chicago. It would give him over 2 months to heal up & build for that show.(Over the Limit has been moved the October to sit right up with HIAC that month, but thankfully there is only 12 shows this year) Now the tables are turned & I'd be totally cool with Punk main eventing that show over the WWE champ Cena. Ideally you'd have Punk get the biggest win of his career on Taker but that's not going to happen these days. Maybe he could get a win on The Rock for his "Payback"? Probably not. Punk/Cena part 12 in Chicago again would be alright, only if we get another Orndorff Piledriver. BUT the absolute best way to go would be on the post-Mania Raw to have Heyman call out Punk on his losing ways & have Brock take out Punk & build to the "Chi-Town Rumble 2013". It would draw some $. Atleast better the Cena/Big Show WWE title match or whatever they are running this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 So hypothetically that gives us: WWE Title: The Rock© vs. John Cena WHC: Alberto Del Rio© vs. Jack Swagger No Holds Barred: Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H The Undertaker vs. CM Punk The Shield vs. Big Show, Randall Keith Orton & Sheamus Tag Team Titles: Team Hell No© vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big Langston IC title: Wade Barrett vs. The Miz Fandango vs. Chris Jericho 8-Diva Tag Team match Brodus Clay & Tensai vs. The Rhodes Scholars Preshow match- US Title: Antonio Cesaro© vs. Kofi Kingston SO 11 matches? This will be like Wrestlemania 5 with 100 4 minute matches, only without Randy Savage, Arn Anderson & Tully to make me care. But I still have hopes that Taker/Punk suprise the hell out of me. Also that Lesnar's raw athleticism provides some WrestleMania Moments™. And I know Cena & Rock have a classic match down deep inside of them, just wish we had Pat Patterson to map one out for them. The rest just looks like a 3 hour Raw. Not a special one with a Jim Duggan match either, just a normal "2 weeks out from the Over the Limit ppv" kind. To be fair, everyone's perennial favorite, Wrestlemania 17 had 11 matches. That show had 4 matches under the 4 minute mark, counting the match from Heat. I'm not saying that this WrestleMania will be on that level, but I wouldn't discard it just by looking at the amount of matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I keep reading people suggest a "CM Punk gets turned on by Heyman & Lesnar" scenario and I just don't know if people realize how small CM Punk would look against Brock. Like "I really can not suspend my disbelief for this match" small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I keep reading people suggest a "CM Punk gets turned on by Heyman & Lesnar" scenario and I just don't know if people realize how small CM Punk would look against Brock. Like "I really can not suspend my disbelief for this match" small.In the sense that he's about the same size as Randy Couture...yeah, you're probably right. Who's the most normal-looking guy who Lesnar worked with during his original run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Jeff Hardy count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawmic Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Bix and I were talking about this the other day, with the amount of matches and the fact that every WrestleMania since 24 (except 26 but that had two 3 minute matches) has had a 1 minute match, what will be the 1 minute match this year? 24: Kane vs Chavo (11 seconds) 25: Rey vs JBL (21 seconds) 27: Corre 8-man tag (1 minute 34 seconds) 28: Bryan vs. Sheamus (18 seconds) I think the safe bet would be Henry vs. Ryback. I'd say the dark horse would be Del Rio beating Swagger in a minute because they think it'll help him and to punish Swagger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostka Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I say Team Hell No vs Ziggler/Big E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Bennett Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Bix and I were talking about this the other day, with the amount of matches and the fact that every WrestleMania since 24 (except 26 but that had two 3 minute matches) has had a 1 minute match, what will be the 1 minute match this year? The Rhodes Scholars, Bella Twins and Layla vs. Brodus Clay, Tensai, the Funkadactyls and Kaitlyn. I also suspect Antonio Cesaro is going to have the task of a triple threat with Kofi Kingston and Sin Cara, which will probably get about 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
med2089 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I don't see how it could be anything other than Jericho/Fandango, as the whole build for Fandango's debut has been him backing out of his debut. It makes the most sense for him to lose instantly, as if he knows that's going to happen, and that's why he's been ducking his matches this whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I agree that Jericho/Fandango seems like it makes the most sense to go under a minute. I just don't see the Fandango gimmick going anywhere. I can only hope the divas tag match will be as short as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I saw the Bellas vs Funkadactyls at NXT tonight and I can only hope the main match is under a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I keep reading people suggest a "CM Punk gets turned on by Heyman & Lesnar" scenario and I just don't know if people realize how small CM Punk would look against Brock. Like "I really can not suspend my disbelief for this match" small.In the sense that he's about the same size as Randy Couture...yeah, you're probably right. Who's the most normal-looking guy who Lesnar worked with during his original run? RVD maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 I keep reading people suggest a "CM Punk gets turned on by Heyman & Lesnar" scenario and I just don't know if people realize how small CM Punk would look against Brock. Like "I really can not suspend my disbelief for this match" small.In the sense that he's about the same size as Randy Couture...yeah, you're probably right. Who's the most normal-looking guy who Lesnar worked with during his original run? RVD maybe. There's the match against Spanky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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