Ditch Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Misawa & Ogawa vs Saito & Inoue, NOAH September 10th 2004 Background: Saito spent several years as Akiyama's right-hand man only to be cast out during the summer. He ended up forming a midcard stable named Dark Agents. He and Inoue earned this tag title shot by beating former champions Kobashi and Honda. That match was decent but did nothing to suggest what we'd get at Nippon Budokan. Why I think it's underrated: It lacks the stiffness and bombs of, say, the Kobashi vs Taue match that followed it. Masao Inoue's athletic ability, execution, and moveset are not exactly impressive. Yet the story it tells of a life-long jobber trying to make good and beat the odds is very compelling. Things like layout, structure, timing and selling are what make this work. I've typically seen two reactions to it. Either people love it, or they're turned off by Inoue. I've seen more of the former than the latter, so this is well worth checking out. What it deserves: Top 50. Misawa, Ogawa and Saito all play their roles very well while giving the spotlight to Inoue's career performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Pre-Split 2000 All JapanToshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi - AJPW 01/17/00Kawada's big return match falls flat even though he goes onto have 4 ****+ matches in his last truly great year of his career. This felt like their routine good match. They are laying in all their shots and everything looks good, but there is no sense of electricity. They are just going through the motions. Most wrestlers wish that their matches looked like this when they were going through the motions, but still can't be but a little disappointed by what I believe is the last ever Kawada/Kobashi singles match. Kawada levels Kobashi as soon as the bell rings with a big boot to say I'm back, bitch. Kawada plays king of the mountain at the beginning using his feet to keep the fiery Kobashi at bay. In a popular All Japan transition spot, Kobashi wins a suplex battle and takes over with short running knee lifts. Kawada answers in kind with one of his favorite transition spots, the sudden spinning heel kick. Kawada is focusing on the face of Kobashi with all these running big boots. I liked their apron sequence the best where Kawada hits a true axe kick, but Kobashi does the All Japan no-sell and clobbers him with a BURNING LARIAT! At this point, we get that classic Kawada selling that just makes his match as Kobashi begins to unload his offense. Kobashi really wants to hit his moonsault and Kawada really does not want to be hit by it. So Kobashi slaps on a sleeper to drain Kawada's energy, which is pretty effective psychology. Kobashi hits his powerbomb, but cant manage the half-nelson suplex, which Kawada hits an enziguiri out of. Kawada gets his own powerbomb, but when he goes to the well again Kobashi-rana counters albeit very botched. I am surprised Kobashi would do a Misawa spot and not only that fuck it up. Kawada adds a wrinkle with an armbar takedown -> cross armbreaker, which Kobashi sold well while in the hold, but does not have much significance. Kobashi All Japan no sells a back drop driver and wins a double lariat battle. He throws Kawada with a Tiger suplex and the jacknife powerbomb only gets two. Kobashi goes to hit his lariat, but Kawada can't even stand up on his own so Kobashi stands him up just to knock him down with BURNING LARIAT! I feel like the finish is like a metaphor for the like the system, man, you know. It is the best hits of Kawada/Kobashi, but it did not feel like any spots until the very quick finish had any sort of consequence. It was just a fun exhibition of moves. Stuff like the Kobashi sleeper or the Kawada cross-armbreaker really could have added interesting new dynamics to their match. As it stood, it is just par for the course. ***1/2----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All Japan Triple Crown Champion Vader vs Toshiaki Kawada - All Japan 2/17/00 Man, six years ago, I thought this match was the shit. Now, it felt like it was being wrestled in slow motion and surprisingly light. Kawada's strike looked so chumpy especially whenever he tried to imitate the Vader punches. Vader's offense and selling are still top notch, but his movement thus his bumping has gone to shit. It is too bad that this match did not happen in 1993/4 as this could have been an all-time classic. Kawada evades Vader early on, which frustrates Vader, who tries to corner him, but ends up taking several boots to the face and being suplexed. A Vader eye poke transitions the match into the favor of the Mastodon. I love when a bully resorts to such cheating. Vader hits his body attack and a headbutt on the floor. Much like Kobashi's moonsault, Kawada does his best to avoid Vader's Vaderbomb, but eventually he has to take it, but kicks out. Kawada mounts a comeback with kicks and Vader sells the stretch plum better than anyone has since 1992 with his great verbal selling. The Vader body attack restores his advantage and he pours on his offense with a powerbomb and back drop driver. Kawada blocks the chokeslam. Vader swings a wild bear paw that finds his mark that finally puts Kawada on jelly legs and Vader murders him with a clothesline to successfully defend his titles. It is a perfectly fine match but there is not anything really that special about it. Kawada is trying to fight from underneath against the Mastodon, but Vader proves to be too much to handle. Will Kobashi be able to wrest the titles for from The Man They Call Vader? ***1/4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All Japan Triple Crown Champion Vader vs Kenta Kobashi - Budokan 02/24/00 I would hazard a guess that this Vader's last great match and it actually surprised me how good it was. It had been six years since I seen it last and had no recollection of it, but this was really well-executed. This is puroresu version of a most excellent Black Sabbath dirge, slow and heavy as fuck. Kobashi's ribs are taped up and Vader eats him alive. The match focuses on the two things Vader has left his offense and selling. At the beginning during Kobashi's shine, I was worried this match would go the way of the Kawada match with Vader trying to bump for Kobashi and just not having the agility anymore. I know that Vader helps everyone when he gets suplexed, but it looks even more obvious in these matches. Kobashi starts to chop as he would Akiyama or Kawada, but instead of the usual macho pissing contest, Vader just creams him with a clothesline. Lets Go Vader. From there, Vader zeroes in on the ribs dropping all his weight on them and just doing everything he can to injure them further: hanging Kobashi out to dry on the railing or ripping off the tape. Kobashi would get a hope spot like a flying shoulderblock and Vader would just immediately fall with all his weight on Kobashi's ribs to stymie him. The crowd finally gets into after three Vaderbombs, which starts up the ""Ko-Bash-I" chants. Where was the Vader whistle and customary trash talk? Vader hit a huge short arm clothesline, but here comes Kobashi with the spin kick. Dont you just love when all of sudden the Japanese commentator will just scream "FLYING BODY ATTACK~!"? Kobashi hits a powerbomb off the top rope and a German suplex, but you can't hold Vader down yet. Vader starts swinging those bear paws and just throws Kobashi all over the place with three German suplexes. Double clothesline and Vader is still first to his feet and hits a monster chokeslam and then another. The straps are down and all that gut is hanging out. It must have been an 18+ only show at Budokan that night. It is all for naught as Kobashi hits a Burning Lariat for two and then a moonsault for two. In a finish I absolutely loved, Kobashi bounces off the Vader body attack, rebounds and takes Vader's head off with a BURNING LARIAT~! to win the championships to a huge pop. Given Vader's limitations at the time, they have the best match possible with Kobashi taking a shit ton of punishment from the Mastodon. I loved all the moments where Kobashi would hit a move and Vader just kept on coming back. It felt so different from the usual All Japan fare at the time where you had a really established underdog in Kobashi because of the size disadvantage working hard underneath. This is Vader in his fucking element too. Give him a popular babyface that can sell and has great fire and he can't have a bad match. It doesn't matter that he put on a ton of weight and can't move, David vs Goliath is Vader's game and no one does it better. I heard one critique of this match was that Kobashi did not get enough offense and it was just an extended squash (on puroresu.tv). I am going to be a dick about this comment and say this guy needs to watch more American wrestling because two momentum shifts in a match is a perfect number to have an all-time classic. This match actually had four because Kobashi had a false comeback. The story of the match was Kobashi outlasting the monster you have to take Vader to proverbial twelveth round that's Sting learned at Starrcade '92. By letting Vader punch himself out, Kobashi had effectively already weakened Vader. In addition, his ribs were fucked so he was looking to hit a big bomb and get the fuck out of there. That's why he went for a cover after each big bomb because he was trying to shorten the match once his ribs were attacked. Plus, the fact Vader basically kicked Kobashi's ass demonstrates how much of a warrior Kobashi is for surviving that onslaught. In reality, that is the central question in most Vader matches, "Can the opponent survive the onslaught?" It was a excellent execution of that story. ***3/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Finish up 2000 All Japan and I will be ready to move onto 2003-2004 (I cheated a bit and already watched 3/1/03 since the 11th anniversary was this past Saturday. Spoiler: Just as fucking amazing as I remembered). Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi - Champions Carnival 4/11/00 The point of interest in this bout is how Misawa works on top for most of the match. For a wrestler with as much offense as Misawa, you would expect him to work on top more often, but I have seen mostly work from underneath. Though I have found the wrestler who works underneath in Japan most likely wins thus since he won a lot it may have necessitated him working underneath. Reinforcing that conjecture is of course, Kobashi did win over arch-nemesis, Misawa in this bout. I thought Misawa was going through the motions in this match, which let's be honest is better than 95% wrestlers ever, but at the same time a pity. He has so much offense that the match is never boring, but he just is not wrestling with a panache. It is harder to discern with stoic Misawa if he is trying, but I feel like he was just there. He opened the match with a great array of aerial attacks that found their mark on Kobashi. In a HOLY SHIT~! transition spot, Kobashi hotshots Misawa off the apron onto the railing. He just lays in a beating on the outside to Misawa. Kobashi was definitely the more fired up of the two for this match, but that makes sense as he is younger and still hungry. Misawa starts coming back with a flying head scissors to counter the Kobashi powerbomb. It was nice to see struggle over a suplex on the apron as some of the match felt like they would use a facelock reset to move onto the next spot. Kobashi's selling and histrionics are the highlight in this match as he begin to take Misawa's best offense. Misawa may be peaking too soon and could the Emerald of All Japan be peaking too early in this match? I like the sequence of Kobashi hitting the 3/4 nelson suplex to level the playing field as he does not just pop up and do it, but rather earns it. I am a total mark for powerbombs onto the top turnbuckle and Misawa takes a wicked one. Misawa counters the Burning Hammer and begins to use his elbows to set up his finish stretch. Kobashi blocks Emerald Flowsion and only the ropes can hold him up. Kobashi hits a sleeper suplex for two and immediately follows up with an Axe Bomber and a Burning Lariat to get the duke. It is 2000 All Japan. You get a ton of high-end offense with a couple head drops with some Kobashi Fighting Spirit. It is good, but there is really nothing here to separate it from the pack. Misawa seemed uninspired even though it was refreshing to see him work on top. The only spot that really stood out to me was the Hotshot onto the Railing, which needs to be cribbed. It should have been a late transition spot for more impact in the match. This is a match that blends into All Japan portfolio, but still an entertaining watch. ***1/2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - Champions Carnival '00 What struck me the most about this match was how they were still able to manage to add something to their matches even though they had been wrestling big time singles matches since 1992. This encounter would be their final encounter in All Japan and I believe their last singles match until they drew 52,000 to the Dome under the NOAH banner in 2005. This match felt a lot like Flair/Steamboat Spring Stampede '94 in that the wrestling is still great, but it just does not grab you as much as it did when it was fresh. Both matches feature enough new stuff and just plain fundamentally awesome wrestling that neither can be written off, but they pale in comparison to their past glory. Misawa and Kawada depart from their classic long build matches (even previous Carnival matches went 30 minuet Broadway) to deliver their version of a tight sprint. There is a sense of urgency that is not as present in their previous encounters to finish this match early. It stems from the fact that after wrestling each other for over a decade that they knew each other's moves so they only way to beat one another is to hit the move before the opponent knew what hit them. Kawada won the early slugfest with a back drop driver and from there on out just kept kicking Misawa in the face anytime he tried to string together a combination of offense. Misawa is able to finally get on offense because he quickly hits a Tiger Driver. I can't remember the last time Misawa quickly hit a Tiger Driver there is usually a lot of struggle before he can hit one. Same goes for his follow-up German it was explosive. Misawa crashed and burned on the frogsplash attempt. Kawada capitalizes with a quick powerbomb, but when he tries again, he can't. It is the element of surprise that is all they have. So once Misawa has time to prepare for the powerbomb he can block it or Kawada can evade the frogsplash. Misawa's roaring elbow after the stretch plum and Kawada's consequent sell are why this match-up is one of the greatest in history. Kawada regains the advantage when he catches Misawa with a kick as he is coming down. He just unloads with everything in his strike arsenal and cant get the pin with a brainbuster. The teased the Ganso Bomb, but Misawa headscissors out, but Kawada eventually hits the powerbomb and still can't pin Misawa. Misawa's back elbow has Kawada like Oh My God. The Tiger Driver only gets two. It devolves into an elbow versus boot match and Misawa wins that with a nice elbow combination. Misawa finally hits Emerald Flowsion on Kawada to win their last contest in All Japan. The urgency of this encounter makes an interesting addition to their canon. **** ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mitsuharu Misawa vs Vader - NOAH 12/23/00 This bout is not on the ballot to be voted on, but I thought since I had watched every other combination of these four in 2000 that I might as well watch this one. I thought this was surprisingly good given Vader's condition at the time. Yes, Kobashi proved you could still have a great match with Vader, but I thought that was a lightning in the bottle moment. They worked a smart match with Vader as the methodical monster and Misawa works on trying to deprive him of the use of his arm. Vader's verbal selling during the arm work really make the match and you really believe that Misawa can topple the monster by going back to the arm repeatedly. They begin with Vader casually flipping off Misawa. After a couple lock-ups, Vader spits at Misawa so Misawa flips him off!!! I marked out for that. Vader chucks Misawa across the ring in a German suplex. I love Vader. Vader just destroys Misawa in the corner. Misawa is able to evade one of his splashes and he grabs an arm applying an armbreaker, but Vader hammer punches out of it. Vader throws Misawa around again like a ragdoll and Misawa presses with the cross armbreaker. Vader throws a wild bear paw and knocks Misawa out. Vader always has a puncher's chance. Vader sells his arm like crazy really putting over the drama of the match since he can't make the cover after a Vaderbomb and has to do his Vadersault from the middle rope. The Vadersault from the middle rope was crazy because of the acceleration of the rotation was even more impressive. Misawa capitalzes on the injury with elbows to arm as Vader just yelps in pain. Misawa elbows Vader in the back of the head hard and then floors him with a elbow to pick up the victory. I thought this was a very strong outing from both with each playing their roles effectively. Vader is established as a monster. Misawa's gameplan is take out a limb and survive the onslaught. Once, he has him wounded he uses his trusty elbow to win. It was a great layout with excellent offense and selling from Vader. ***1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Jado & Gedo vs Kanemoto & Wataru Inoue, New Japan March 4th 2005 Background: Wataru Inoue, who struggled to progress from the 'young lion' phase of his career without becoming a jobber, is given an opportunity to go for the junior tag titles in the main event at Korakuen Hall. This is a rematch from the previous July, when Jado and Gedo narrowly retained. Why I think it's underrated: Jado and Gedo have this weird on/off switch with the quality of their wrestling. Either it's lazy choking and filler, or high-end Southern-style heel aggression. This features "good" Jado and Gedo. More importantly, this is given extra time because it's the main event, and they use that time to build a big-match structure. Kanemoto is effective as the Big Man On Campus, and Inoue is effective in the Ricky Morton role. Top it off with a hot crowd and you get something memorable. What it deserves: Top 100, and maybe even top 50. I really think this is something any wrestling fan can appreciate, and with Inoue having retired this is almost certainly his best match in the New Japan ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan4L Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Kawada vs. Muto and Muraham vs. Tanaka both totally held up for me upon watching them this past weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Kawada vs. Muto and Muraham vs. Tanaka both totally held up for me upon watching them this past weekend. Definitely. I had both at ****1/4 and in the top 10 through 2002. Projecting out (this is with the rest of decade performing as well as 2000-2002, which is unlikely), you are looking at least Top 40 for both matches if not Top 25 from my rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Keep in mind that the 'western puro fans' world is very different from Japan. NOAH got more attention in the west than NJ from 2002-2006, but NJ was the #1 company during that span and typically by a wide amount. Sorry, just saw this post, but that's pretty surprising for me since the narrative I've always heard was NOAH was drawing huge during those years while Inoki was nearly running NJ out of business by pushing MMA stars no one wanted to see. Why else did the Yuke's sale happen with Inoki getting exiled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 NJ was #1 but they were spending several times more than NOAH, between a bigger roster, higher salaries, bigger venues, and far more expensive outsiders for major events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 Threads have been created for all of the matches on the spreadsheet. There are other threads in those folders as well, but the matches listed on the spreadsheet are distinguished by the tag BOJ 2000s. Here is a link to all the matches: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/tags/forums/BOJ%2B2000s/ I included YouTube/Daily Motion links where they were included, but did not include download links in the threads, so the spreadsheet will still be needed for the project. I plan on eventually moving any comments on the matches to the relevant threads, but to speed things up, anyone who has posted in the main thread we have at PWO is encouraged to re-post their thoughts in the new threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 16, 2014 Report Share Posted March 16, 2014 While I haven't seen the match for myself, I've heard Yoshida vs Fujii from 5/03 get huge praise. I was curious if there was a reason it wasn't listed here. Was it just not something nominated, or is it something people aren't as high on anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan4L Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Threads have been created for all of the matches on the spreadsheet. There are other threads in those folders as well, but the matches listed on the spreadsheet are distinguished by the tag BOJ 2000s. Here is a link to all the matches: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/tags/forums/BOJ%2B2000s/ I included YouTube/Daily Motion links where they were included, but did not include download links in the threads, so the spreadsheet will still be needed for the project. I plan on eventually moving any comments on the matches to the relevant threads, but to speed things up, anyone who has posted in the main thread we have at PWO is encouraged to re-post their thoughts in the new threads. this is awesome! thank you man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 So no Bob Sapp matches made the nominations for shame! More seriously, I thought Fujita came off really good in that Tanahashi match. Yeah, his offense is a little bare bones, but I love a good knee lift and all his offense really suited his character much moreso than a Kurt Angle. So how come no more nominated matches from him and why no more praise? Did I just happen to watch his career performance and the rest is shit. Is it because during the Inoki regime he was stuck with shitty opponents? He seemed really different and someone who fit Inoki's vision really well while still being able to execute a great pro wrestling match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 He was focused on MMA and didn't wrestle much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 That makes sense. Whats the deal with Tenzan & Kojima vs Barton & Steele? Looks like a shitty match on paper, but ranked 3rd in 2001. Is worth time to watch it? I have never seen Jungle Jim Steele and he might be my favorite wrestler out of the four (fine Kojima is not that bad, but annoying). Do they really put on career performances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I give the case for it in its thread on the subforum. Short answer: not a MOTDC but real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted May 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 Would an extension to year's end be something that many of y'all would be interested in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Crackers Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'd prefer some sort of extension but I could probably have it done by August if I rushed a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan4L Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 August is closing in mighty quick. An extension to October maybe would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I think I could get it done, especially by going nuts in August like I intend to, but a bit more time wouldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Deadline moved to December 31st! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thank God! http://i.imgur.com/NH0zEjj.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I cant believe Meltzer rated the 2004 KENTAFuji/Misawa&Ogawa tag at only 3.5 stars. Not only did I love the match, but from what I gathered about Meltzer it seemed up his alley. KENTAFuji has not been as bad as I expected, but I am watching the cream of the crop of their matches. To me at least KENTA >>>> Marufuji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan4L Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Fine with this extension but I wouldn't like it to go on into 2015 - that'd be too far away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 -That tag got raves from puro followers at the time. I had no idea Meltzer had it so low (by his standards). -Definitely no more extensions. I'm not Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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