2013 Observer Awards Discussion

[W2BTD]

Just curious: does NXT have a chance in hell of winning?

It looked like a lock in the first half of the year, but it really dropped off in quality to the point that I don't even bother watching most weeks. First half of the year I would scour the internet looking for it and eat it for breakfast.

 

So for the millionth year in a row i'm voting Dragon Gate Infinity by defaut, even though I hate hate hate the three hour full show format. I loved the old one hour version.

 

I watch all WWE programming, Impact, whatever lucha my DVR picks up at any given time (mostly the CMLL b-show on Time Warner Deportes), Championship Wrestling from Hollywood, Traditional Championship Wrestling, and occasionally PRIME Wrestling out of Ohio (depending who is on it in a given week, as sometimes it's too shitty to watch) regularly. I end up zoning out or fast forwarding most of it.

 

WWE Main Event is another show that was great for the first haf of the year, but has tailed off in quality lately. Gone are the 20+ minute "workrate" matches that used to open the show every week with the roster workhorses. It would probably still be my #2, with NXT third, but I don't remember if Best TV Show is a one vote category or three.

[RyanClingman]

I may have missed out on a few things, but year on year it becomes more difficult for me to decide on the Best TV show award. There was a time where I used to vote for ROH TV, and last year I voted for iMPACT due to that run of quality shows (in hindsight I think that many people, including myself, greatly overvalued that run), but this year I can’t point to any promotion that really produced compelling television. I watched NXT on and off, and have been following the show when I haven’t been watching it, and it doesn’t strike me as a show that could win the award. I look at ROH TV, and while it has been good from what I have seen, I haven’t been watching the show as much as I probably should, and that is in many ways due to an emotional disconnect that I have with the product. I can’t really vote for SmackDown, as for most of the year it was pretty lackluster, and RAW has its obvious flaws. I haven’t been following Dragon Gate at all, and Mainevent was a show that I simply didn’t have time for. As crazy as it sounds I may be leaving that spot blank.

[RyanClingman]

Just curious: does NXT have a chance in hell of winning?

but I don't remember if Best TV Show is a one vote category or three.

 

I believe it is a three vote category.

[Dylan Waco]

Bumping this because voting is open now and since they don't take Dec. into account, the "year" they cover is complete. Would love to hear other peoples thoughts, particularly on the major awards if they have them.

[Grimmas]

Well does Roman Reigns have most improved locked up or what?

 

What are the candidates for top rookie, because I have no clue.

[Matt D]

I think Rollins has come a really long way this year but I doubt the WON audience base will have thought he had that far to come in the first place.

[Dylan Waco]

Reigns and Rollins will be 1 and 2 on my most improved list.

 

I think Rookie of The Year is an obsolete category, but I will vote for Andrew Everett

[Matt D]

Goldust has to be PWI Comeback of the Year, no? Just saying. He should get a Bill Apter given plaque.

 

Seriously, though, I'd be surprised if anyone other than Cesaro gets Underrated, though Ziggler and even Bryan might be in the running given the audience base.

 

EDIT: Impact really won Best TV Show last year?

[Dylan Waco]

Cesaro is clearly the most underrated.

 

I think Impact won best show and worst show last year. Basically the people voting for WWE shows split the vote.

[Coffey]

I think Bryan being Bryan plus his monster push this year makes him a strong favourite for WOTY. He'd have to get absolutely slaughtered by booking in the next couple months to fumble from here.

Heh. Still think Bryan wins though cause he doesn't have a lot of competition this year. I don't think Okada or Tanahashi are really up there this year. Punk fell off. John Cena missed some time. If you could vote for The Shield as one unit, maybe!

 

I agree with Goldust for Comeback (does that category exist?) & Reigns for Rookie although I like Summer Rae too, she has no chance of even getting a vote.

 

My MOTY might be the Cena/Punk RAW match from after Elimination Chamber. I did like Shibata/Ishii from the G1 Climax show too. There's quite a few Shield matches.

 

Best Promotion: WWE

Best TV Show: NXT

Tag Team: Reigns/Rollins

Feud of the Year: Rhodes Brothers Vs. Authority/Shield

Most Improved: Bo Dallas

Best Interviews: Gotta be Heyman or Zeb, I reckon

[Matt D]

I have no real good sense of who the WON audience would think is overrated. Orton? Bully Ray? How's Magnus generally seen? Big Show is probably fresh on people's minds even if that's blatantly ridiculous. Actually, with the way Cena shrugged off all the arm work over the last few months I could see people voting that way even if it'd be a little silly.

[Dylan Waco]

I think Bryan being Bryan plus his monster push this year makes him a strong favourite for WOTY. He'd have to get absolutely slaughtered by booking in the next couple months to fumble from here.

Heh. Still think Bryan wins though cause he doesn't have a lot of competition this year. I don't think Okada or Tanahashi are really up there this year. Punk fell off. John Cena missed some time. If you could vote for The Shield as one unit, maybe!

 

I agree with Goldust for Comeback & Reigns for Rookie although I like Summer Rae too, she has no chance of even getting a vote.

 

Reigns isn't eligible for rookie.

 

What might hurt Okada and Tanahashi is the fact that NJPW folks could split the vote. I contend that Okada is a much better candidate than Tanahashi, but I have been told I'm crazy for thinking that by people who are bigger NJPW fans than I am.

 

At this point I am likely to vote WOTY Cena, Okada.....no clue who is third. I actually don't see anyone with a super compelling case. I'm not a fan of Tanahashi, but I acknowledge that he would be a reasonable pick, though nothing he did in the last year really makes me feel like he's a super strong candidate. I am a fan of Bryan, but if we look at returns he arguably had a less impressive year than Mark Henry's 2011, and I was told I was "stretching" for a favorite of mine when I touted him as a strong candidate that year. Punk was unwatchable for much of the year, stuck in one of the least interesting feuds involving good talents I can remember. Orton is better as a heel, but he's still not someone I want to watch, and he does nothing for business at all (not even as a merch seller). I wouldn't vote for part timers for this award, and I don't think Lesnar or HHH deserve it anyway, with The Rock being so horrible in the ring I can't really see voting for him either. The rest of Japan is in trouble, except for Dragon Gate and I can't imagine anyone from that fed being a strong candidate. Super indies are on their ass relative to other years, and I don't see someone to throw a bone to there. There is no one near what Aries was doing as a worker/act in TNA last year, so I can't see tossing a "breakout year" vote to anybody there. Last year I had Casas in my top three, and I think Casas and Rush have had really strong in ring years this year in Mexico, but CMLL isn't really drawing worth a shit.

 

I agree with the notion that The Shield as a unit would be worth some sort of vote but that's not possible. For that reason I am tempted to vote them 1,2,3 in that category, even though that is completely absurd. As it stands I can't see having 2 NJPW guys in my top three (especially when I don't think much of either guy as a worker), nor am I high on giving Bryan the benefit of the doubt, like every other "smart" fan on earth. Given that I might just vote Goldust third since there is no "comeback" category, and the guy works harder than anyone else in the company.

[Jmare007]

I think Bryan being Bryan plus his monster push this year makes him a strong favourite for WOTY. He'd have to get absolutely slaughtered by booking in the next couple months to fumble from here.

Heh. Still think Bryan wins though cause he doesn't have a lot of competition this year. I don't think Okada or Tanahashi are really up there this year. Punk fell off. John Cena missed some time. If you could vote for The Shield as one unit, maybe!

 

I agree with Goldust for Comeback & Reigns for Rookie although I like Summer Rae too, she has no chance of even getting a vote.

 

Reigns isn't eligible for rookie.

 

What might hurt Okada and Tanahashi is the fact that NJPW folks could split the vote. I contend that Okada is a much better candidate than Tanahashi, but I have been told I'm crazy for thinking that by people who are bigger NJPW fans than I am.

 

At this point I am likely to vote WOTY Cena, Okada.....no clue who is third. I actually don't see anyone with a super compelling case. I'm not a fan of Tanahashi, but I acknowledge that he would be a reasonable pick, though nothing he did in the last year really makes me feel like he's a super strong candidate. I am a fan of Bryan, but if we look at returns he arguably had a less impressive year than Mark Henry's 2011, and I was told I was "stretching" for a favorite of mine when I touted him as a strong candidate that year. Punk was unwatchable for much of the year, stuck in one of the least interesting feuds involving good talents I can remember. Orton is better as a heel, but he's still not someone I want to watch, and he does nothing for business at all (not even as a merch seller). I wouldn't vote for part timers for this award, and I don't think Lesnar or HHH deserve it anyway, with The Rock being so horrible in the ring I can't really see voting for him either. The rest of Japan is in trouble, except for Dragon Gate and I can't imagine anyone from that fed being a strong candidate. Super indies are on their ass relative to other years, and I don't see someone to throw a bone to there. There is no one near what Aries was doing as a worker/act in TNA last year, so I can't see tossing a "breakout year" vote to anybody there. Last year I had Casas in my top three, and I think Casas and Rush have had really strong in ring years this year in Mexico, but CMLL isn't really drawing worth a shit.

 

I agree with the notion that The Shield as a unit would be worth some sort of vote but that's not possible. For that reason I am tempted to vote them 1,2,3 in that category, even though that is completely absurd. As it stands I can't see having 2 NJPW guys in my top three (especially when I don't think much of either guy as a worker), nor am I high on giving Bryan the benefit of the doubt, like every other "smart" fan on earth. Given that I might just vote Goldust third since there is no "comeback" category, and the guy works harder than anyone else in the company.

 

Although I don't agree with some of your arguments for not voting for some people, I get why you wouldn't vote for them (Tana, Bryan, Casas) but then you say you would vote for Goldust??

 

I've loved what he has done this year but I don't see how Goldust escapes from the arguments that made you not vote for other people.

[Dylan Waco]

Goldust is undeserving and would be a pure "I like this guy vote" in a weak year

[Jimmy Redman]

I think Bryan being Bryan plus his monster push this year makes him a strong favourite for WOTY. He'd have to get absolutely slaughtered by booking in the next couple months to fumble from here.

Heh. Still think Bryan wins though cause he doesn't have a lot of competition this year. I don't think Okada or Tanahashi are really up there this year. Punk fell off. John Cena missed some time. If you could vote for The Shield as one unit, maybe!

 

Oops.

 

For the people who feel like they can't vote for Bryan now because they killed his main event run, in the HOF thread the argument was made many times that comparing a potential candidate to "the worst guy in" wasn't really the right way to go about things, and I agree in that context, but at the same time, look at Chris Jericho winning WOTY for 2008 and 2009. Where is the drawing power? He main evented Raw for a couple months in 2008 (less than 3 months of the voting period actually), and may have drawn one number (No Mercy, which also had a Jeff Hardy title shot). And in 2009 he was upper midcard working the Legends angle and then IC and Tag Title feuds on Smackdown all year. I don't think you can make a single argument for him drawing in 2009. In both years, people voted for him because of his work, because he was cutting great promos and having great matches while feeling like a big star on the show. I'm sure there are other examples too. What the hell did Kurt Angle draw whenever he won it? Did Flair not win a WOTY after WCW started to tank business-wise?

 

I realise the suggestion of willfully ignoring drawing power is getting away from the spirit of the award since it's part of the criteria, but what happens when you have no viable candidate who ticks all of the boxes? Lately the trend seems to be going toward throwing out everything else and just judging by drawing power, by floating guys like Rock as candidates (which to me is absurd). I mean, especially in this day and age where it is harder and harder to both find drawcards, and ascertain whether someone is a draw or not, the emphasis on drawing power over performance seems limiting. They're supposed to be equal parts of the criteria.

 

To me, in 2013, Bryan is a completely viable candidate. He's been one of the best workers of matches this year, at bare minimum. He's also done a lot of great work out of the ring, between the comedy and then being anti-Authority Bryan. He got himself so ridiculously over they were basically forced to push someone they didn't want to push (with the obvious result, of course), and for a long time has been the most over guy on the roster. He main evented Summerslam, beat Cena clean, and has been a main event guy since then. He sort of has everything EXCEPT drawing power, which in this case is probably the thing he has the least control over.

 

I'll have him somewhere in my three for sure.

 

I wouldn't be arguing this if we had evidence of top guys being really strong drawcards all over the place and business was better. But we don't. We're left with what we have, Tana, Okada, and then a bunch of people who either draw and don't work, or work and don't draw. In that situation I have zero qualms about going for work over drawing.

[Dylan Waco]

I could be wrong, but I believe Jericho/Michaels feud was credited with doing better than average business at the time. No clue if that is true or not, or even if it's something that I made up in my head, but I could swear that was part of the argument for him. In any case he shouldn't have won, but I tend to think a lot of the WON Wrestler of the Year winners have been bad.

 

One thing I will say is that I'm not sure that drawing power and performance are supposed to be equal parts of the criteria. In my eyes there is already an award for best in ring worker (Bryan falls outside of my top three there too at the moment, though he's very close). The Thesz/Flair Award doesn't discount working ability (or promos/character/whatever), but it's an award that I have always seen as being more about who the biggest stars are. In wrestling the biggest stars are generally defined by drawing power. I agree that it is tougher now to ascertain who is and isn't a draw than it was in the past but there are still indicators. I think this year clearly showed that Cena is the biggest full time star in wrestling so he will be number one. I don't even like Okada as a worker, so if I was weighing that much at all he plummets out of any consideration, but as a star I think he's clearly coming into his own. As the guy who has carried the title of the second promotion in the world, main evented strong shows against a variety of opponents (Tanahashi, Kojima, Ibushi, et), and has headlined probably at least half of the biggest drawing shows of the year in Japan for a promotion on the uptick, he is a guy I have no problem with as two (in fact if Cena had been out longer I would have voted him number one). I don't think Bryan is a bad pick at three in a weak year. Looking at work as a sort of tiebreaker for this award, or more importantly something that can help you, but not really hurt you in my eyes (see Okada) it's a plus for him. But there is nothing that compels me to vote for him and I find that bothersome as this is an award where I feel like the argument should be so strong that it's hard to argue against inclusion.

[W2BTD]

Okada should win all of the awards that Tanahashi is going to win.

 

And keep in mind I love Tanahashi.

[Dylan Waco]

Just sent this to Dave

 

LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD

 

1. John Cena

2. Kazuchika Okada

3. Daniel Bryan

 

MMA MOST VALUABLE FIGHTER:

1. Georges St. Pierre

2. Anderson Silva

3. Nick Diaz

 

MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER:

1. Antonio Cesaro

2. Negro Casas

3. Rush

 

BEST BOX OFFICE DRAW -

1. Floyd Mayweather

2. John Cena

3. Georges St. Pierre

 

FEUD OF THE YEAR –

1. Rush v. Negro Casas

2. Antonio Cesaro v. Sami Zayn

3. The Shield v. The Rhodes Brothers

 

TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR –

1. Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins

2. The Rhodes Brothers

3. Los Traumas

 

MOST IMPROVED –

1. Roman Reigns

2. Seth Rollins

3. Antonio Cesaro

 

BEST ON INTERVIEWS –

1. Mark Henry

2. John Cena

3. Zeb Colter

 

MOST CHARISMATIC –

1. Daniel Bryan

2. John Cena

3. Negro Casas

 

BEST TECHNICAL WRESTLER –

1. Blue Panther

2. Timothy Thatcher

3. Virus

 

BRUISER BRODY MEMORIAL AWARD –

1. Rush

2. Negro Casas

3. LA Park

 

BEST FLYING WRESTLER –

1. Aerostar

2. Andrew Everett

3. Shockercito

 

MOST OVERRATED-

1. HHH

2. Paul Heyman

3. American Wolves

 

 

MOST UNDERRATED –

1. Antonio Cesaro

2. Tomohiro Ishii

3. Luke Gallows

 

PROMOTION OF THE YEAR –

1. WWE

2. NJPW

3. CMLL

 

BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW –

1. NXT

2. WWE Main Event

3. CMLL

 

MOST OUTSTANDING FIGHTER:

1. Johnny Hendricks

2. Jon Jones

3. Robbie Lawler

 

PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR –

1. Charles Lucero vs. Rey Hechicero - Monterrey 8/4

2. William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno, NXT 3/21

3. Antonio Cesaro vs. William Regal, NXT 11/21

 

MMA MATCH OF THE YEAR –

1. Gilbert Melendez vs. Diego Sanchez – UFC 166

2. Michael Chandler vs. Eddie Alvarez - Bellator 106

3. Georges St. Pierre vs. Johnny Hendricks - UFC 167

 

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR –

1. Andrew Everett

2. Ryotsu Shimizu

3. Charlotte Flair

 

BEST NON-WRESTLER PERFORMER –

1. Zeb Colter

2. Stephanie McMahon

3. Bruce Tharpe

 

BEST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER –

1. William Regal

2. Jim Ross

3. Michael Cole

 

WORST TELEVISION ANNOUNCER –

1. Nick Nitrus (SAW)

2 Taz

3. Mike Tenay

 

BEST MAJOR SHOW –

1. WWE Summerslam 2013

2. WWE TLC 2012

3. NJPW G1 Climax Day Four

 

"CATEGORY B" AWARDS. PICK ONE IN EACH CATEGORY. WINNER CHOSEN ON THE BASIS OF FIRST PLACE VOTES.

WORST MAJOR SHOW OF THE YEAR – TNA Hardcore Justice

BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER – Antonio Cesaro's toss/euro uppercut combo

DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC – Nigel McGuinness withholding his Hepatitis status from fans and friends, marketing his documentary around that big reveal, and making blood in wrestling a major issue while ignoring any mention of the likely cause of the bicep injury that was the actual reason he never achieved his "dream."

WORST TELEVISION SHOW – TNA Impact

WORST MATCH OF THE YEAR – Eddie Edwards v. Jay Lethal, PWG All Star Weekend Night One (3/23)

WORST FEUD OF THE YEAR – HHH v. Brock Lesnar

WORST PROMOTION - TNA

BEST BOOKER – Dusty Rhodes (whoever books NXT)

PROMOTER OF THE YEAR – Vince McMahon

BEST GIMMICK – The Shield

WORST GIMMICK – Aces and Eights

BEST WRESTLING BOOK – Mad Dogs, Midgets and Screwjobs

BEST PRO WRESTLING DVD – Barbed Wire City DVD

[Cox]

What made you change your mind about Bryan at #3?

[Dylan Waco]

There was really no one better for that spot. I thought about leaving it blank, but that would have been obnoxious even by my standards.

[Log]

I'm curious about your pick of Cena over GSP for box office draw.

 

Not saying it's wrong or anything, just wondering about the rationale behind it.

[Dylan Waco]

In general I don't like mixed awards. I voted Mayweather up top for two reasons 1. If you are going to have mixed awards based essentially on who and what Dave covers, then the guy who is the hottest ticket should win and 2. A vote for Mayweather is a vote against mixed awards, because it's effectively a vote against MMA. I put Cena over St. Pierre, because even though St. Pierre drew bigger in two single outings, I think the first show had as much to do with Diaz being Diaz as it did with Georges and the Hendricks fight - while a good number for this year - was a big disappointment in the grand scheme of things. Cena had some really disappointing stuff too, but I think this year really illustrated that he was the biggest draw in wrestling given his ability to pop Raw, SD and even ppv for his comeback, plus the Mania number was huge and someone deserves credit for that. If GSP had done two shows with over 750k buys I would have rated him above Cena fwiw.

[Grimmas]

Here is my votes:

 

"CATEGORY A" AWARDS

 

1. LOU THESZ/RIC FLAIR AWARD:

i) John Cena

ii) Kazuchika Okada

iii) Daniel Bryan

 

3. MOST OUTSTANDING WRESTLER:

i) Antonio Cesaro

ii) Daniel Bryan

iii) Negro Casas

 

6. FEUD OF THE YEAR:

i) The Rhodes Family vs. The Shield & Authority

ii) Rush vs. Negro Casas

iii) Super Porky vs. Rey Escorpion

 

7. TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR:

i) The Shield

ii) Killer Elite Squad

iii) The Rhodes Brothers

 

8. MOST IMPROVED:

i) Roman Reigns

ii) Seth Rollins

iii) Cody Rhodes

 

9. BEST ON INTERVIEWS:

i) Mark Henry

ii) Zeb Colter

iii) Paul Heyman

 

10. MOST CHARISMATIC:

i) Negro Casas

ii) Daniel Bryan

iii) Shinsuke Nakamura

 

11. BEST TECHNICAL WRESTLER:

i) Antonio Cesaro

ii) James Mason

iii) Blue Panther

 

12. BRUISER BRODY MEMORIAL AWARD:

i) LA Park

ii) Katsuyori Shibata

iii) Kevin Steen

 

13. BEST FLYING WRESTLER:

i) ACH

ii) Mascara Dorada

iii) Adrian Neville

 

14. MOST OVERRATED:

i) Triple H

ii) Davey Richards

iii) Randy Orton

 

15. MOST UNDERRATED:

i) Antonio Cesaro

ii) Sami Zayn

iii) Chris Hero

 

16. PROMOTION OF THE YEAR:

i) NJPW

ii) WWE

iii) CMLL

 

17. BEST WEEKLY TV SHOW:

i) CMLL TV

ii) NXT

iii) Main Event

 

18. PRO WRESTLING MATCH OF THE YEAR:

i) CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, 8/18

ii) Dr. Wagner Jr. vs. LA Park, 5/11

iii) Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Kota Ibushi, 8/4

21. BEST NON-WRESTLER PERFORMER:

i) Maria Kanellis

ii) Zeb Colter

iii) Paul Heyman

 

24. BEST MAJOR SHOW:

i) SummerSlam

ii) G1 Climax Day Four

iii) Money in the Bank

 

"CATEGORY B" AWARDS.

2. BEST WRESTLING MANEUVER: Antonio Cesaro's Giant Swing

3. MOST DISGUSTING PROMOTIONAL TACTIC: TNA's treatment of Jessy Sorenson

4. WORST TELEVISION SHOW: Impact Wrestling

8. BEST BOOKER: Jado & Gedo

9. PROMOTER OF THE YEAR: Takaaki Kidano

10. BEST GIMMICK: Wyatt Family

11. WORST GIMMICK: Aces and Eights

12. BEST WRESTLING BOOK: Mad Dogs, Midgets and Screwjobs

13. BEST PRO WRESTLING DVD: Barbed Wire City

[Dylan Waco]

Good stuff there Grimmas. MOTY was a brutally tough category this year, there were probably fifteen-twenty matches I wanted to include in three spots. I should have included Maria as a non-wrestler, total airball on my part

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I am a massive PWG mark, but that Edwards/Lethal match was indeed terrible.