tofu_chipmunk Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 My good buddy Dave Musgrave shows his work on Kensuke Sasaki: http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-sto...he-hall-of-fame It's a nice bio sans analysis. I know there's a summary, but when you point to "five domes" and don't look at them with any thought (Choshu retirement for starters), then it really isn't analysis. Sasaki will eventually get in. His "success" is a list of stuff, and it's easier to grasp a list of titles and cards that it looks like he drew on than it is to wade into the depth. John I know you don't care for lists, but who in the WON HOF has gotten in that you don't think should be there? At first glance, I imagine it would be unlikely to exclude Sasaki from a hall of fame that includes Chono & Hase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I didn't vote for Hase, and was pretty strong at the time in saying that I didn't think he warranted going in. For the life of me I don't recall whether I voted for Chono. The other guys who got in that year (Angle, Taker, Sakuraba and Backlund) ate up more of my focus and those discussions stick more in my mind. I would rate Chono higher than Sasaki all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've said this before, but they have appeared on the largest number of ballots I've seen. Easily. They also benefit from a fairly weak modern performers field I had them as my #10, then flip it for someone I thought might fall off. :/ I did have several on there that you advocated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I keep getting the feeling that this is the year for R&R. Man I hope so. Each year I get more and more bitter when they don't make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickHithouse Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 shoe should receive a ballot. Waco, too. Someone should give Dave their addresses or whatever the process is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I vote Waco or Phil . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 shoe should receive a ballot. Waco, too. Someone should give Dave their addresses or whatever the process is. The onus is upon them to either find and e-mail apocryphal roller derby information to Dave, or else prove the outstanding pro wrestling build and payoff on Days of our Lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookeighana Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Most recent WON 11/4/13 noted: * Six inductees this year * First is Henri Deglane (bio included) * "Will likely have one more induction next year" from the pre-1950 era (then "most likely all inductees will be those voted on from the days after wrestling made it on television") Speculation on the other five people? I feel bullish on Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) but I'm pretty surprised there are four others besides them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think it was pretty obvious based on last years returns that there would be another large class this year. The Deglane bio is good stuff. I was pretty positive he was going in this year based on conversation I have had off the board and I think he is a very strong pick. What interests me now is the fact that Dave seems pretty solid in arguing that the pre-tv era is just about closed off from further inductees. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I think that there is new research being done all the time, so I wouldn't bank on the notion that there will be no more overlooked historical figures after next year. I will say that it does raise an interesting question of who this last guy will be. Yohe has been beating the drum for Orville Brown for a few years, but I think he's a decidedly weaker candidate than any of the last few "veteran committee" inductions. Someone like Hornbaker might be high on Benjamin Roller, but others (including Yohe) are unconvinced. Paul Pons is another name that recently came up, but that would seem like an odd "last inductee" from that "category" to me. On the other five I think you have a slew of reasonable candidates. Dr. Wagner Sr. is a stone cold lock - he is going in. I suspect at least one other Luchadore will go in too, but I'm tentative to speculate on who that might be. Hopefully Villano III or Caras (I lean toward thinking it will be V3). I think this it he year for Colon, and if he doesn't go in this year, I think you could make the case that the category he is in might be HURTING him. Sasaki I think is almost certainly going in this year. For the last slot I think Torres is probably the most likely guy, because he seems to have taken over as the new Hans Schmidt type of candidate who has strong historian backing. Having said that he was not on a few ballots I thought he would be on, so I'm not as certain now as I would have been a few months back. Rock N Roll's and Tanahashi I think are also likely to be the fifth inductee, though I'm inclined to think Tanahashi will end up waiting a year longer based on little things Dave has said on audio shows. Ivan Koloff and Jackie Pallo I expect to be close, but not quite, though I would rate them as the next most likely to get in. I don't think anyone from non-performers gets in. I think limiting the number of people that can be voted for in that category is a good idea, but I also think it means we will see a shutout this year and it will be much harder to get in from that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 It seems likely that I will ridicule Dave's statement for decades to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 It seems likely that I will ridicule Dave's statement for decades to come. Keep us posted as the decision develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think it was pretty obvious based on last years returns that there would be another large class this year. The Deglane bio is good stuff. I was pretty positive he was going in this year based on conversation I have had off the board and I think he is a very strong pick. What interests me now is the fact that Dave seems pretty solid in arguing that the pre-tv era is just about closed off from further inductees. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I think that there is new research being done all the time, so I wouldn't bank on the notion that there will be no more overlooked historical figures after next year. I will say that it does raise an interesting question of who this last guy will be. Yohe has been beating the drum for Orville Brown for a few years, but I think he's a decidedly weaker candidate than any of the last few "veteran committee" inductions. Someone like Hornbaker might be high on Benjamin Roller, but others (including Yohe) are unconvinced. Paul Pons is another name that recently came up, but that would seem like an odd "last inductee" from that "category" to me. I mentioned Fabiani in the other thread. If he's not in this year (and I doubt he is since I don't think bio work was done on him), than he's in next year. Agree on the new research point, which I talked about in the other thread. On the other 5... I'm pretty surprised there are 5 going in. My guess is that it's spread around the different regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I thought Fabiani went in a couple years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu_chipmunk Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I thought Fabiani went in a couple years ago? The most recent inductions for U.S. promoters have been Paul Bowser, Roy Shire, and Tom Packs. Fabiani isn't in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Then Fabiani is definitely the last guy Dave is talking about. For some reason I thought he went in a couple of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Nope. He's someone that we started talking about last year I think. I know that's when I mentioned him to Dave, along with the Matsunaga's. Someone jumped Dave with Deglane, who I confess to being less high on than those who back him going in. So Fabiani is likely next year, and one hopes Dave has somone working on a bio info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Deglane has been in the works for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Deglane has been in the works for a couple of years. That I know, as has Brown and a number of other people. Only saying that the vibe I got when mentioning Fabiani last year was (i) yeah obviously should be in + (ii) next year i.e. 2013. I may be misreading what was said in the conversation, but... it was pretty direct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Most recent WON 11/4/13 noted: * Six inductees this year * First is Henri Deglane (bio included) * "Will likely have one more induction next year" from the pre-1950 era (then "most likely all inductees will be those voted on from the days after wrestling made it on television") Speculation on the other five people? I feel bullish on Rock & Roll Express (Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson) but I'm pretty surprised there are four others besides them! I expect Enrique Torres to be a lock and I think Carlos Colon is getting in. To be honest I think no modern (votes too spread) or Japanese performers are getting in this year. Sasaki will be hurt by Tanahashi voters. I imagine at least one non-performer is getting in, perhaps two. Mexico... I don't know. I look forward to the bios in future issues. Deglane's bio kind of bored me when it was "he beat this guy then another guy beat him then he won the rematch etc. etc." but the BiteGate story was fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I'll be shocked if Dr. Wagner Sr. didnt get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I'd be shocked if Colon didn't get in this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I don't consider myself an expert and I admit to not being super familiar with a lot of people on the ballot, but I've thought for years that Colon should be in. Some people downplay the importance of Puerto Rico as a territory, but the fact is, it's been a successful territory for a long time, and Colon has been the biggest star for a long time. I consider him an icon. You can't talk about wrestling in Puerto Rico without talking about Carlos Colon. From what I've seen and heard from Dave he's always downplayed him as a candidate, downplays the significance of Puerto Rico, brings up that when brought to New York he "didn't matter" or whatever, but I think that's a specious argument. He wasn't put in a position to matter there. They also brought in Japanese and Mexican legends who "didn't matter", WWWF at the time brought foreign guys in as a promotional favor, so they could get coverage in their home countries or whatever. And there's lots of guys in the HOF who's claim to fame is in one country or territory, being a globetrotter or someone who worked all over can help a candidacy, but it's not the be all end all. I also think Dave has been against him as a candidate because of the Brody deal, and it's reasonable to hold that against him, but I don't think it changes his status when it comes to a HOF, for better or worse. Dave's opinions on candidates have a lot of influence, which is why I think it's taken so long for Colon to get support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Probability of error a 100% here but going by comments/reactions Dave made past few days: AJ Styles got far less votes than the even low end projections. Tanahashi made it. What seems to be the biggest "gotcha moment" was Dave's reaction to Dan Lovranski's sprung on question on the LAW radio show about whether Dick Murdoch finally made it in. Seems like it is Dick's year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Probability of error a 100% here but going by comments/reactions Dave made past few days: AJ Styles got far less votes than the even low end projections. Tanahashi made it. What seems to be the biggest "gotcha moment" was Dave's reaction to Dan Lovranski's sprung on question on the LAW radio show about whether Dick Murdoch finally made it in. Seems like it is Dick's year. I noted that Dave completely brushed of AJ to Bryan on the latest Radio show. AJ will be off the ballot I'd guess. I want to see *IF* Tanahashi makes it (which to be fair, if you look at Mookie's recent analysis of NJ iPPV he isn't attributed as the main draw) I want to see Karl Stern's meltdown. Dick should of made it in 1996. Much like Colon and Big Daddy but that's a debate for another time, that to be fair, has already been done to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I would be fairly shocked if Murdoch made it in this year, though being in the category he is in is a help. What did Dave say that tipped the hand on Tanahashi? I think his getting in at this point is not good, but given his reputation as a worker in WON circles it's a waste arguing over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.