Where the Big Boys Play #53

[JerryvonKramer]

 

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-b...ican-bash-1990/

 

Chad and Parv welcome fantasy booker extraordinaire Derek Cornett to review the Great American Bash 1990.

- [2:02] Derek's background as a fan

- [21:13] Observer and Torch roundup, including: talk of Hogan vs. Flair at Wrestlemania 7, Brutus Beefcake's boating accident, Wade Keller on Ole Anderson's booking, and an Eddie Gilbert interview.

- [47:57] Gordon Solie Wrestling News Network Update marathon, including Solie's lunch with "former world light heavyweight champion" Charlie Lay

- [1:01:13] Great American Bash 90 review, including the Fabulous Freebirds in some of the worst ring attire even seen in the squard circle, Arn's priceless facials taking on the fearsome El Gigante, some discussion of whether or not crowds can give "wrong" reactions during matches and about crowd dynamics in general, and is Sting's post-match promo good or just plain weird?

- [2:44:50] End of the show awards and 'Question for the Listeners'

 

The PWO-PTBN Podcast Network features great shows you can find right here at Place to Be Nation. By subscribing on iTunes or SoundCloud, you’ll have access to new episodes, bonus content, as well as a complete archive of: Where the Big Boys Play, Titans of Wrestling, Pro-Wrestling Super-Show, Good Will Wrestling, and Wrestling With the Past.

[shoe]

Listening and just an FYI. George Bush was a big fan and actually went to many shows at the SHC before he was President. The Sonia Live show was a show I believe on WGN out of Chicago.

[shoe]

Chad you mention that Furnas looked better on this show. Furnas and Dutch worked together in Continental so they have a history so that might be why.

[cheapshot]

Just finished #52, and POW #53 is available. Looking forward to it like always chaps.

[soup23]

Yeah the Torch said G HW Bush was a big fan overall and specifically for Flair.

[soup23]

Chad you mention that Furnas looked better on this show. Furnas and Dutch worked together in Continental so they have a history so that might be why.

Furnas run here feels pretty perplexing overall. He was 31 years old and had been in the business for around 4 years so it is not like he was some green rookie. I would be interested if there is any good Furnas singles matches from Continental or anywhere else previous to this run. I haven't seen the footage so I don't know but the his run in WCW really ended abruptly.

[cheapshot]

Chad you mention that Furnas looked better on this show. Furnas and Dutch worked together in Continental so they have a history so that might be why.

Furnas run here feels pretty perplexing overall. He was 31 years old and had been in the business for around 4 years so it is not like he was some green rookie. I would be interested if there is any good Furnas singles matches from Continental or anywhere else previous to this run. I haven't seen the footage so I don't know but the his run in WCW really ended abruptly.

 

Check out this:

- Doug Furnas vs. Detroit Demolition (Randy Culley) from early '88 in Continental

[shoe]

Chad you mention that Furnas looked better on this show. Furnas and Dutch worked together in Continental so they have a history so that might be why.

Furnas run here feels pretty perplexing overall. He was 31 years old and had been in the business for around 4 years so it is not like he was some green rookie. I would be interested if there is any good Furnas singles matches from Continental or anywhere else previous to this run. I haven't seen the footage so I don't know but the his run in WCW really ended abruptly.

 

Check out this:

- Doug Furnas vs. Detroit Demolition (Randy Culley) from early '88 in Continental

 

 

Aka Mr. X. Who is going to work Gigante.

[Dustys Pencil]

wow so fast

[soup23]

Our hope is around one a week, we will see how long it lasts

[bradhindsight]

First off Parv, EVIL Jim Herd was certainly within his authority to set up lumberjacks to keep the Horsemen at bay. I mean, Woman got suspended indefinitely for trying to hide a foreign object at Capital Combat. The Horsemen screwed up the ending of his last two PPVs. He still doesn't know if Ole was behind raising the cage (23 year cliff hanger) and I'm sure he's still investigating to this day. I love that he made a cameo when they handcuffed Ole. EVIL Jim is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

 

I never realized until re-watching Sting's promo with Gordon Sollie that the match was also No DQ. Sting obviously wanted this so the Horsemen couldn't turn it into a schmooze but at the same time, at any time the Steiners could have gotten in the ring and destroyed Flair. Little bit odd that Sting got ALL that from EVIL Jim Herd.

 

I don't know if Sting was overexposed but given their reliance on him as a big baby face, I don't think it was terrible that he was around. He was an integral part of the end of Wrestle War (friendship with Luger) and since the Horsemen injured him, he wasn't out of place in forming a face team and still staying in the spotlight. I think it would have been pretty odd for him to disappear for months only to return and win right away. Plus Lex couldn't carry the baby end of the promotion.

 

re: the lumberjacks I liked the continuity with the Steiners there as they were Team Sting from way back when he first got hurt. It was cool that they were part of the pay off. I liked the blow-off there being that they finally stymied the attempted interference (I'm not sure JYD moved - actually you can't see him on the ramp helping so he may not have made it in time, which is horrible) from the Horsemen.

 

El Gigante is such a jerk, he only gives Ole half a seat to sit on.

 

Thoughts on the actual match:

 

I don't have a problem with it being just 16 minutes because i'm sure there were limitations to Sting injury-wise, especially from a conditioning standpoint. Plus, they'd end up just repeating the same sequences like that Clash I match. I liked Chad's point about adding on 10 minutes of Flair working him over and that would have been ideal because, when watching this back, this match is essentially a Sting squash.

 

Sting is NEVER in danger. Flair gets work in on the knee (early too - which I liked) but never gets him in the Figure Four (until the end when he is rolled up and pinned). Sting doesn't sell anything for longer than five seconds and may be the worst seller on offense of all-time. His Scorpion Deathlock is atrocious in this match. Flair's only pin attempt is with his feet on the ropes at the very end (after he shoulders Sting in the gut from the apron) and Scott Steiner knocks them off immediately to break it up (they do briefly do the bridge out into a backslide so technically Ric got a 1 count there I guess also). That's it for Sting ever being in peril. I think if they layer that on a bit more to build sympathy for Sting and his comeback, this ends up considerably better.

 

I did like the celebration. Great call from Jim Ross and great eruption from the crowd. The Dudes with Attitude and Steiners celebrating is a nice touch.

 

Sting's promo at the end is almost like a shoot to those questioning if he should be champ and have the torch passed to him. Flair and the Horsemen injured him! He got his revenge with the stipulations he insisted on. This was pretty weak imo.

[The Chief]

I love your show guys, but this guest is really derailing things, sorry...

[King Solomon]

I love your show guys, but this guest is really derailing things, sorry...

 

because?

[The Chief]

I love your show guys, but this guest is really derailing things, sorry...

 

because?

 

Well, to me part of the appeal of this podcast is how analytical it is. I'm all for differing opinions, but implying Ricky Morton is terrible without really giving any reasons other than "I hate him" and turning everything into a WWF discussion really turned me off. I like how laid back and relaxed this podcast usually is, this was just different than what I'm used to. YMMV, I guess I'm just spoiled by some of the previous guests.

 

I did enjoy the rest of the show. We're getting into the period where I was finally able to catch WCW on a consistent basis, so this will be very fun for me to follow.

[King Solomon]

I love your show guys, but this guest is really derailing things, sorry...

 

because?

 

Well, to me part of the appeal of this podcast is how analytical it is. I'm all for differing opinions, but implying Ricky Morton is terrible without really giving any reasons other than "I hate him" and turning everything into a WWF discussion really turned me off. I like how laid back and relaxed this podcast usually is, this was just different than what I'm used to. YMMV, I guess I'm just spoiled by some of the previous guests.

 

I did enjoy the rest of the show. We're getting into the period where I was finally able to catch WCW on a consistent basis, so this will be very fun for me to follow.

 

 

Yeah I didn't get the Ricky Morton and RnR hate either but to each his own I guess. I enjoyed Derek regardless but he lost me a little with his love for El Gigante. So far I have enjoyed most of the guests on these pod casts.

[soup23]

I enjoy every guest except the one lined up for havoc

[shoe]

I enjoyed the guest. I didn't agree with most of his opinions. I did like that he looked at the show through a bookers eye. So it made the show feel different.

[King Solomon]

I enjoy every guest except the one lined up for havoc

 

lol!! I'm ready!!

[Dustys Pencil]

Sonya Live was a CNN talk show...I'm dying to find this segment now

 

Great point by the guest bringing up the lack of gimmicks in WCW at this time as opposed to the WWF

 

I kind of like mixing matches in that have no context.(re: the Race/Rich match) it makes it feel more like a sport...i remember really liking that match(Tommy Rich was a favorite in Continental)

 

Parv going way harsh on Gorgeous Jimmy but yes he was completely unmotivated by this point and they looked like two middle aged stockbrokers that were dressing up for halloween as a cover band

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that The Wrestling Bear was a better worker than El Gigante

 

The Southern Boys were such a mid card tag team in comparison to the Fantastics and the RnR it was hard for me to take that match with the same level as I would any other MX classic

 

Love the discussion on pops versus actual drawing ability. Sid being the best example

 

And yes going to house shows in the early 90s...before the shows started people we chanting HOOOO throughout the entire building...Hacksaw was super over but not a super draw

 

Gotta agree with Derek on Sting/Flair. This was huge for me at 12 and I still got excited watching it now. As a Mid South fan it was cool seeing Rick Steiner be there to congratulate him.

 

I'll disagree this felt bigger than Savage winning at Mania 4 Savage beat Dibiase in crappy tournament. This felt way bigger at the time.

 

I think the Sting promo was 10 years ahead of its time. Had that promo been cut in the late 90s or early 2000s people would recognize it as him saying that this was the beginning of a new era

 

Parv you're a WWF mark but I hate(and I do mean hate) to agree with you in that the Warrior win was bigger because A. the two had never wrestled and B. Hogan hadn't lost a match in so long that it made it bigger...The Sting win was still huge at the time though

 

Listened to this over two days but this was fun and a great listen guys thanks

[soup23]

Sonya Live was a CNN talk show...I'm dying to find this segment now

 

The Southern Boys were such a mid card tag team in comparison to the Fantastics and the RnR it was hard for me to take that match with the same level as I would any other MX classic

 

Listened to this over two days but this was fun and a great listen guys thanks

Just looked Sonya up on google, gotta love early 90's cable talk shows.

 

Interesting take on the Southern Boys tag. I am always intrigued by people that place a good emphasis on positioning on the card and the placement of the combatants. It is not something I usually implore but I fully admit that my top end matches in history are all main events so it is a viewpoint I can see.

 

Always love your thoughts on the episodes, makes any time commitment doing the show worthwhile.

[soup23]

I don't have a problem with it being just 16 minutes because i'm sure there were limitations to Sting injury-wise, especially from a conditioning standpoint. Plus, they'd end up just repeating the same sequences like that Clash I match. I liked Chad's point about adding on 10 minutes of Flair working him over and that would have been ideal because, when watching this back, this match is essentially a Sting squash.

 

Sting is NEVER in danger. Flair gets work in on the knee (early too - which I liked) but never gets him in the Figure Four (until the end when he is rolled up and pinned). Sting doesn't sell anything for longer than five seconds and may be the worst seller on offense of all-time. His Scorpion Deathlock is atrocious in this match. Flair's only pin attempt is with his feet on the ropes at the very end (after he shoulders Sting in the gut from the apron) and Scott Steiner knocks them off immediately to break it up (they do briefly do the bridge out into a backslide so technically Ric got a 1 count there I guess also). That's it for Sting ever being in peril. I think if they layer that on a bit more to build sympathy for Sting and his comeback, this ends up considerably better.

 

I did like the celebration. Great call from Jim Ross and great eruption from the crowd. The Dudes with Attitude and Steiners celebrating is a nice touch.

 

Sting's promo at the end is almost like a shoot to those questioning if he should be champ and have the torch passed to him. Flair and the Horsemen injured him! He got his revenge with the stipulations he insisted on. This was pretty weak imo.

Great analysis of the main event, I do wonder how banged up Sting was here and they feel sort of handcuffed in that something had to give after the Luger non-finishes. Thanks for the comments as always Brad.

[Mr. Lacelle]

I think placement on the card really counts with regards to believability of near falls. For instance, as good as Brad Armstrong was, no one was buying his pin attempts on Austin in 94 for example. The great thing about the midnights was they stooged enough that you could buy a lower ranked team beating them but were over enough to justify going over super teams like the Roadies or The Steiners.

[BrickHithouse]

Ran across this passage in Stan Hansen's book The Last Outlaw, pages 79-80:

 

I would also like to mention a great character named Charlie Laye. Charlie was an old-timer who "ran" the front desk in the wrestling office and set up rides for everybody. He had been doing that for the Florida office for almost two decades. Charlie didn't waste words. When I called the office in Florida, Charlie would answer the phone. I would say something like "This is Stan Hansen. I need a ride to Miami tonight." In his slow, monotone voice, he would say "Four o'clock.... with Paul and Bob", and he would hang up. That was it. Nothing more, nothing less. He was often imitated by the boys. No matter how much of a hurry somebody was in, or how urgent their need was to talk to somebody, he was so slow in both actions: tone and voice. It irritated some people because he never got in a hurry. Twenty years later, I really got to know him well when we were both living in Mississippi, where he had grown up years before.

Well, then. That's not exactly scintillating info, but it's a little bit about Charlie Lay(e).

[JerryvonKramer]

It's at times like these where I just love this place. Awesome info Brick. Also, the Florida connection explains why him and Solie are such big buddies.

[Evil Jim Herd]

I voted for Parv through our 1-900 WCW Hotline. If only I could have hired him in 1990. I love his ideas about gigantic wrestlers. I'm going to use El Gigante the same way.