sek69 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 For all the love NXT gets, the debut of Adam Rose and pending debut of Bo Dallas made me wonder if NXT is really preparing guys for the main roster. In terms of in-ring they seem to be doing a solid job, but it seems like they do a better job of creating gimmicks to get over with the NXT crowd instead of the WWE one. With the notable exception of the Wyatts, everyone so far called up with their NXT gimmick seems to have not gotten over in the big leagues. WWE already seems to see Adam Rose as a flop after only 2 weeks, and as great as the promos have been for Bo Dallas, I see him being the next guy to get a start-and-stop push before being condemned to midcard hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Shield were also NXT gimmicks, weren't they? In the case of Rose I think that WWE is showing why they react too quickly sometimes. Maybe the Rose character will flop, but giving him two weeks and declaring him a flop, that's terribly reactionary. A character needs to be given a small amount of time to grow, develop, and connect with the audience, not everyone will form a connection right away. I don't see Bo's current gimmick being tailored to the NXT crowds, but it is built around the reactions he was getting in nXT and that could be a problem. WWE was smart to take a Bo character who was struggling and go with what the reactions were telling them. The reason he may struggle in WWE proper is because they are playing the character as if he's already familiar to the WWE crowds as a failed babyface. He's not, so while I believe the character should be a good character anyway, they are cutting out an important chunk of his backstory and I can see that hurting him. We'll see what the future holds for people coming up from NXT, but with the Wyatt's and Shield firmly entrenched in the main event picture I'd say it's recently been a very large success character wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingOkra Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 NXT does their job to get the wrestler ready for the main stage but letting a wrestler get lost in the directionless midcard is the WWE's fault. While there will always be wrestlers or gimmicks who do not make it on the main stage, creative needs to have some idea where the character is headed and how to book him or her towards their goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 The Shield was a WWE gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Emma is dying a slow death in front of wwe crowds. I feel bad for her. And Rose is already in the doghouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 NXT is not the whole issue, it's debuting guys with lame gimmicks. Honestly think of where you can go with Adam Rose's gimmick in 6 months. No matter what he does in the ring he is set up for failure, same with Emma, same with Rusev etc etc. One issue they will have with NXT is simply debuting guys on television before they are ready. Guys are exposed and a poor performance 6 months into their career can set bad impressions of them for ever. Look how many guys who are in WWE that have improved still carry the stigma of being only bottom card or mid card guys. NXT has a lot of upside to it, but many of those guys still need a ton of seasoning off tv before they are ready. With both the Sheild and Wyatts they were protected and thrown on top right away. Luckfully for the Sheild they had high level indy experience between the two of them so they are okay, and Reigns in the package was given time on the road to develop. The Wyatts have been carefully protected but we have seen what happens with gimmicks that are not protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 The weekly television crush is a killer. Guys trading wins. Them hotshotting through things. They just have to fill content and it's hard to make anything matter in that scenario. It's not just the NXT guys who are flops now but people like Del Rio or even Sheamus. Everyone that's not Daniel Bryan or the Shield basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 I think some of it is that there's an obvious disconnect between the guys booking the main shows and the guys booking NXT. Emma's gimmick in NXT had a natural progression into what she is now but they just threw her onto Raw as a ditzy girl who dances funny and has bubbles in her entrance and assumed that would do. Saddling her with Santino in shitty comedy doesn't help but it seems like they aren't even taking the time to bridge the gap between NXT and the main shows with regards to treating their gimmicks right. You just have to look at how lazy the Paige debut was to see that the care that goes into NXT just isn't there on the main shows, possibly due to Vince's crazy reactionary tendencies, the rewrites or just plain incompetence. Xavier Woods was promoted and just put with the free black guy they had on the roster. Maybe some of it is a factor of them not letting guys talk unless they're in the main angles but I think if these characters and gimmicks can get over in NXT, they could on the main shows if they gave them time to get their gimmicks over and took the time to put any effort at all into their programs. Maybe they don't have the faith in them to cut decent promos but that's not possible with the awful writing they have anyway. Langston is a naturally witty, smooth guy and I don't think he's ever said a word on the main roster and it's no wonder that any initial interest fans have in them soon diminishes. I worry for Bo Dallas because if they don't let him speak with his silly motivational stuff, that's literally the entire gimmick harpooned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Dallas is already problematic since he only works as a heel after having been pushed as a face for months (years?) in order to end up with the "Rocky Sucks" heat that they were then able to run the delusional gimmick with. You start running with the delusional gimmick without the groundwork and it's going to float away into apathy-land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 NXT is not the whole issue, it's debuting guys with lame gimmicks. Honestly think of where you can go with Adam Rose's gimmick in 6 months. No matter what he does in the ring he is set up for failure, same with Emma, same with Rusev etc etc. EXACTLY. I came here pretty much to state the same thing, but yeah. You're dead on. The characters are lacking any sense of clear motivation or drive. There's just not much purpose to an Adam Rose without a backstory. Yes. He likes to party. Okay? Shouldn't he be introduced as a wrestler first & foremost? I mean, bring the guy in as a British-born (or whatever they're going for with the Aldous Snow impersonation) wrestler. Have him chalk up a few wins, and then have him gloating about his lifestyle or whatever. THEN you start running with vignettes, interviews, etc. where he's climbing aboard his "Express." Have Renee Young grow curious, follow him inside, and THAT is the moment you bring us into his world, so to speak. From there, start bringing the riot to ringside. Something to that effect. Even if you choose to go the route of running vignettes to setup his debut, the character still lacks any connection. There's no depth. There's no motivation. The best promos of the past have a guy declaring his purpose. What's the purpose of Adam Rose? To party? So why isn't he a rockstar? Why even bother showing up to compete? Make him a COMPETITOR that wants to achieve success & superstardom. Have him outright & openly STATE that he wants fame and fortune. To do that? He has to WIN MATCHES. And there ya go. All that's needed. Something so simple, and yet they completely skip over the concept. Dallas is already problematic since he only works as a heel after having been pushed as a face for months (years?) in order to end up with the "Rocky Sucks" heat that they were then able to run the delusional gimmick with. You start running with the delusional gimmick without the groundwork and it's going to float away into apathy-land. You're right on this one also. They haven't set the stage for ANY of these acts, unfortunately. Rather than resetting the table for any of these characters, they rush right into what they were already doing on NXT. Well - not everyone that tunes into RAW follows NXT - and so there's a disconnect. There's a missing link in the chain, and they aren't even bothering to catch people up to speed. So the natural, organic reaction that Bo gets from Full Sail won't be what he gets on the road. Not at this rate. And it's not his fault. They never reset for him to get there. Same thing with Emma, who I really enjoyed the heck out of in NXT. The character just doesn't carry the same charm or appeal on the main shows. Again, it goes back to them leaping right from square one to the finish line. Fans missed out on everything that got us to the ultimate destination, and that's honestly sometimes the best part. There was no Emma coming out looking awkward and out of her skin BEFORE she started doing the dance movements, as a way to just be doing something. And so people don't get it. Can't blame 'em either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingOkra Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 Will there be an easier transition with acts called up after the Network launch and NXT being made available in more households? Adam Rose does not count as he was essentially hot shotted to the main roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't know. I think it's still beneficial for them to at least run some video packages or vignettes to help intro these new characters. They're essentially unseen and should be treated as such. Even just a quick reel of footage would do the trick. For instance, if they brought in Bo and showed his brief history in NXT - with the crowd rejecting him as the vanilla babyface - and then his slight transformation? Done deal. Same thing with Emma and her increasing signs of awkwardness. Even if you're not going to take the TV time to retell her story, you could do it through short, spliced video packages with footage from NXT. Actually show the evolution of these characters. Allow fans of the main shows to SEE the progression for themselves. Educate them, and let them invest naturally. It'll garner a different reaction than just throwing these characters out there and expecting people to connect the dots as they go along. Big E is a guy that would've found immense benefit from that treatment back when he debuted. They brought him out cold as Dolph's manager, and sure. That was a decent spot at the time, considering Dolph's own placement on the roster back then. But it was NOTHING compared to the awesome path he was carving through NXT at the time as their unstoppable babyface. I understand why he couldn't exactly do the 5 count gimmick in WWE, since there's only so many guys you could feed him. Plus they were running Ryback with the undefeated streak at that exact same time. However, I see it differently. I think they ABSOLUTELY should have introduced Big E. the way he was on NXT. You don't deliberately diminish one monster to favor the other. You build up both simultaneously, and then you have 'em collide. Epic clash of the bulls, and fans likely would've eaten it up as your usual powerhouse kind of collision. But yeah. It's funny. For so many years, WWE wanted to pretend that outside promotions and territories didn't exist. And so guys would be brought in as clean slates. Now they suddenly expect everyone to be automatically up to speed & invested in EVERYTHING that comes out of NXT. But they're not necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Adam Rose has been on TV for two weeks, period. I'd give a guy a bit more time before screaming "Flop" at him. Just stop having Cole dance and say how cool he is, cause THAT'S the kiss of death. And Rusev is being booked properly. He's been working his way up the roster. And I think Bo can get his deal over because it's based on getting booed. As long as he can get the crowd to boo him, his gimmick is golden. It doesn't matter why they're booing, either. Just so long as people boo and shit on him then he's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Unfortunately, NXT is not a very good environment to tell what's going to get over to a mainstream audience - they're a very easily pleased crowd just happy to be part of something they perceive to be important. Shield was a WWE creation. Bray Wyatt was a Bray Wyatt creation and the WWE have pushed him way harder than the failed examples given, even at first when Bray was a bit cold during the Kane feud. I think the Adam Rose gimmick, upon first impression, sucks. He's going to have to work hard to bring some depth to it, especially as a babyface. Bo Dallas has a bit more of a luxury in that I don't think there needs to be much focus on his NXT past at all for people to understand it - they did this kind of thing before with Kurt Angle, and as long as Bo can pull it off (inspirational talk bullshit and then whiny Michael Jackson voice asking if they're Boo-ing or Bo-ing) in a live environment, the gimmick has far more legs than Rose. Rusev is in the Umaga spot, and in Umaga's case, it took a good few months before people looked past the outdated gimmick and looked at the worker in his own context, hopefully that'll come for Rusev as he gets put in there with guys like Langston and Ziggler. Emma was doomed the second she was paired with Santino, and that awful segment debuting the dance to a dumbstruck Raw crowd was brutal viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightingOkra Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 The Bo Dallas gimmick should be easy. Have him act like a face then take heel shortcuts to win. One problem I see is fans cheering Bo because he is more interesting than the bland babyfaces in the midcard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Johnny Sorrow's absolutely right about Michael Cole shilling for the Adam Rose gimmick. It's terrible TV. Any time Cole jumps on a bandwagon and openly announces how "cool" it is, it instantly becomes uncool. Right then & there. And yet Cole doesn't realize the damage he does by desperately latching onto stuff like that. He just wants to seem in on it. Cole is the Michael Scott of WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 We don't know if Cole doesn't realize the damage he does. He very well might realize it's dumb but the orders could be that he's supposed to dance and latch onto it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 They want Cole to do exactly what Cole is doing. Why? Because they're paranoid and very, very troubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I know we all like to attribute the overproduced nature of the shows to Vince and his desire to micro-manage everything. However, NXT is Trips' baby, and in most ways it has the same overproduced and micro managed style as the main programs. I had always hoped that stuff like the announcers parroting someone in their ear would go away with Vince, but I think it will only stay the same with Trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Well the problem is that the only person in the WWE that I think mainstream would consider a "cool" person is Renee Young and she isn't going to replace Cole or Lawler for awhile if ever. Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler comes off like "hey look my dad thinks this is cool. I don't know if I should like it" I think NXT is good at creating stars if you are booking for the long haul and not for immediately satisfaction. People like Tyler Breeze, Emma and Bo Dallas was about 6 month to year slow burn into what they are now. Only Sami Zayn was one of those guys who was over immediately because they knew who he was. The WWE doesn't have that same mentality and if you aren't over in 2 or 3 weeks then it is kind of over for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 In some ways, Bo's lucky that he's leaving NXT when he is. I think if he was there another two months, he'd be a total babyface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I know we all like to attribute the overproduced nature of the shows to Vince and his desire to micro-manage everything. However, NXT is Trips' baby, and in most ways it has the same overproduced and micro managed style as the main programs. I had always hoped that stuff like the announcers parroting someone in their ear would go away with Vince, but I think it will only stay the same with Trips. NXT has that same overproduced feel but it is somewhat more loose than the regular TV shows. Like for example, a couple weeks ago they had Bayley and Sasha Banks doing promos directly to the camera which in WWE is a no no. Little things like that make me think that Triple H will not be as rigid as Vince and Kevin Dunn when it comes to producing shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholzerman Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 NXT seems to be better booked than WWE anyway, so that's definitely a factor in the disconnect between the two worlds. NXT Emma was a nuanced, self-absorbed yet naive character who couldn't help but be lovable in her airheadedness. WWE Emma is "wrestler's girlfriend #2982" biting off Santino's gimmicked finisher. Any wonder why the latter might not play as well in front of any audience, let alone one that's as expansive as the WWE's is compared to Full Sail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Wasn't NXT booked solely by Dusty Rhodes? Is it still the same way? Being booked/written by one person would explain why its booked better than WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholzerman Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Wasn't NXT booked solely by Dusty Rhodes? Is it still the same way? Being booked/written by one person would explain why its booked better than WWE. Even if Dusty had/still has the book, I can't imagine NXT running with no agents or subordinates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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