Who's Better, Who's Best: Ranking Wrestlers

[Coffey]

I think I have done this here before with mild success. I'll give three wrestler names, you put them in order from best to worst. The exercise is supposed to make you think about what you value from a wrestler more with the idea being that the names are similar in some fashion so as the make the decisions tougher. Different fans are entertained by different things, even from just an in-ring perspective. What else influences your enjoyment of someone? Their character work? Does their outside-the-ring activities alter your perception of their work any?

 

Group A: Road Warrior Animal, Rick Steiner, Demolition Smash

Group B: Terry Gordy, Bam Bam Bigelow, John Tenta

Group C: Yoshihiro Tajiri, 2 Cold Scorpio, Sabu

Group D: Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels

[Loss]

That probably warrants a thread.

[Coffey]

I thought I'd already made a thread for it in the past & I tried searching for topics I had created but didn't see it. My memory isn't as good as it used to be, maybe I just made posts in a big thread & didn't make a thread for it then. I can't remember. I'm getting old.

[Goodear]

Group A:

 

Demolition Smash - I will probably be the odd person out here as Demolition opinions seem to be mixed. However, I feel as though Darsow has a bit more range than the other two as his ability to take on other characters was much more pronounced. I feel as though the transformation from Krusher to Smash to Repoman to Blacktop Bully was more striking than the slower changes Rick made throughout the years. Smash was clearly the highlight of his career and I would put Ax over anyone else from any of the three teams presented in a heartbeat but I take Smash in this.

Rick Steiner - The most explosive of the three and really fun in tag team squashes but time has taken the rose off the Steiner Brothers as not being able to get over narratives other than being bad asses that suplex anything that moves. I'm less familiar with his Varsity Club stuff and the fall out there but there was a time where Rick

Road Warrior Animal - Probably underrated in the grand scheme of things but I would still take the other two on the list over him. A lot of his strikes were very loose in my estimation (especially his elbow to the top of the head) and his bumping was pretty wooden. I don't think he ever evolved himself in any way which is understandable when you are so groundbreaking but still it will hurt him here.

 

 

Group B:

I'm going to not rank Gordy since I've seen way less of him than the other two and while his reputation would indicate that he would probably top the other two, I don't feel comfortable ranking him based off 10-15 matches as opposed to the probably hundred for the other two.

Bam Bam Bigelow I would take over Tenta by a small amount. I appreciate he has a bit more athleticism than Tenta although I question his use of those athletic talents in terms of going to high impact flying stuff without a proper amount of set up. That being said, I think Bigelow has a better match-by-match output with more opponents.

John Tenta One of the best elbow drops this side of Greg Valentine, I think from a long view he does better than from a great match standpoint. But I'm not sure you can argue that he didn't do what he did with pretty good execution.

 

Group C:

Yoshihiro Tajiri I think of Tajiri as an all time great wrestler with great character and overall work. While the other two have their strong points, I think Tajiri rolls over both pretty easily.

2 Cold Scorpio Scorpio could be a bit of a stall machine between spots in ECW. Obviously a very innovative guy in terms of air born offense, I don't think he has the promo work to match Tajiri which sounds insane and all but what are you going to do?

Sabu In terms of structure, I can't stand Sabu as he uses three punches to set up big huge complicated spots. He doesn't chain stuff well together.

 

Group D:

Eddie Guerrero Another high level worker who could do everything I ask out guys.

Chris Benoit Not the character Eddie was with a more high impact offense.

Shawn Michaels - I'm totally not a Shawn guy. Lots of athletic stuff and bumping but his offense was typically far weaker than I look for in a main event guy.

[Lee Casebolt]

Why not.

 

GROUP A

 

Rick Steiner: Largely because I'm a huge mark for a strong amateur background. Steiner has the most explosive and diverse offensive repertoire of the group by a fairly wide margin. As the Steiner Brothers became The Steiner Brothers! he became a little one-note, but this is a pretty one-note group, so it's hard to hold that against him.

 

Demolition Smash: Smash was my favorite part of Demolition as a kid. There is probably no rational reason for this. The least of the group as an athlete, but I find him a more credible brawler than Animal, and at least comparable as a seller/bumper.

 

Road Warrior Animal: Has some great athletic spots, but his high-end offense (thinking here mainly of his flying shoulderblock) rarely looks like it has impact. The Road Warrior act either limits what he can show or covers for limited skills.

 

GROUP B

 

Terry Gordy: Had the most opportunities to work long, high end matches, and mostly took advantage of them. Great brawler, and could wrestle enough to be in the ring with Williams and the Steiners and not look out of place when the other three were putting on the amateur exhibition phase of the match.

 

Bam Bam Bigelow: It says something about his career that his two standout performances in my mind are his last man standing run at the end of the first Survivor Series (a much better match than it gets credit for, IMO) and working Lawrence Taylor at Wrestlemania. Had all the tools as an athlete, had a look and some charisma, but it never really came through into any strong runs.

 

John Tenta: I feel like he would rank higher if he'd been better presented during his career, but aside from the short run as Earthquake vs Hogan, he really never had a program he could shine in.

 

GROUP C

 

Yoshihiro Tajiri: I'm not sure he's an all-time great, but he's way above the other two in this group. Can do it all physically and an outstanding character worker, as well.

 

2 Cold Scorpio: Scorpio's hit-or-miss for me. When he's in with a better all around worker (Benoit) he can produce some top notch stuff. On his own, he's a little spot-spot-spot.

 

Sabu: HATE. The only guy on this list I legit can not stand. The constantly blown spots I could forgive. The insistence on repeating them, sometimes three times or more, I can't. Really great character, has a legit aura to him, but he's pure FF material for me.

 

GROUP D

 

Chris Benoit: This is completely unfair. Benoit was my favorite wrestler from '93 until I quit watching in '03. Objectively, I look back now and see how much of the Benoit act contributed to his final days, and I'd just as soon never see anyone else wrestle the way he did. Subjectively... look, the matches were really, really good, ok?

 

Eddie Guerrero: I never developed the emotional attachment to Eddie I did to Benoit, though I can see the argument that he was better in a number of ways.

 

Shawn Michaels: I was a Bret Hart guy which, at a certain point in time, meant you had to be an anti-Shawn guy. Really like the early AWA-to-IC title run portion of his career, really hate the World title run to first retirement portion, hot and cold on everything since then. Along with Mick Foley, deserves more credit (or blame) than he gets for creating the modern WWE Main Event style.

[Coffey]

Loss, I think you're right: it would be better as its own thread. Wanna move the replies to a new thread?

[goodhelmet]

Because this needs its own thread.

[Coffey]

The last week, with my friend John, I've watched all of December 1995 of WCW & January of 1996 WCW. The shows, (Nitros, Saturday Night, Starrcade [sans NJPW wrestlers] & Clash of the Champions) are pretty much all the same guys having interchangeable matches: Luger, Hogan, Savage, Flair, Sting mixed in with some Arn Anderson, Kevin Sullivan & The Giant shenanigans. Hogan is wrecking everyone, Savage & Flair are trading the world title, now it's Dungeon of Doom & IV Horseman stuff.

 

Anyway, every show pretty much has had a Lex Luger match. And they've not really been all that bad, truthfully. The Torture Rack looks visually impressive & is sold as a big deal. I also remember Lex having a pretty good '88 or '89 when he was managed by Harley Race & using the Piledriver.

 

So, anyway, easy question; complex answer: Lex Luger or Triple H?

 

I honestly think it's pretty close but would like to hear arguments for either man.

[Matt D]

I think Lex is better and the reason is because he saw it as a job. Lex was there to go in, to get paid, to have some fun, and to go home. In 95% of comparisons ever, that would probably be a hindrance to him, but you never got the feeling that he was trying to have a classic or homage something or that he needed to get this much in or whatever. He wasn't a worker, he was an employee, and the guy did his job. He had a lot of athleticism to fall back on. He was generally protected in booking. He had enthusiasm when he was a young babyface and a natural sort of confidence that came through as arrogance for his three or four big heel runs (even his later stuff). He could follow direction. Depending on where he was physically, he could keep up with the guys in the ring with him. He generally connected with fans. Honestly, what I really would want to go back and look at is some more of his 94-early 95 when Raw was in REALLY small venues, because Luger was much more of an arena sort of guy.

 

Triple H on the other hand is king of having 2/3rds of a good match. I think the strongest parts of his career are before 1999 and this year, basically, though I'd have to revisit his smackdown babyface year too. He wrestled almost every match like he had something to prove and in doing so, the only thing he ever really managed to prove was that he needed a road agent to chop seven minutes off of almost everyone one of his big matches. He generally had credible looking, logical offense and would bump big when called upon, but his matches were always full of too many twists and turns, especially in the finishing stretch that it all became somewhere between tedious and desensitizing. In the search for memorable moments, it all somehow becomes a mishmash of forgettableness.

 

I think Hunter understands wrestling better, but in this case, that actually hurts him, because Lex was far more willing to just go out there and do his job.

[El-P]

We had this discussion before, somewhere else on this board. Lex >> Hunter (I know, I'm lazy).

[Zenjo]

Group A:

Rick Steiner - The Steiners were a great tag team, flaws and all. He was the lesser part of it but still comfortably top of group A.

Demolition Smash - For about a month the Repo Man was my favourite wrestler so I have to give him some love.

Road Warrior Animal - The Road Warriors were a pair of overated stiffs who only looked good in squashes.

 

Group B:

Terry Gordy - Easily better in the ring than the other two guys here. Not that he was ever close to top 5 in the world Mick.

John Tenta - A good character wrestler who always tried his hardest to make something out of whatever crazy gimmick he got saddled with.

Bam Bam Bigelow - His movement and bumping just look wrong and really bug me.

 

Group C:

2 Cold Scorpio - A guy who could've had more success but never caught a lucky break. Inconsistent in the ring and dependent on good opposition.

Yoshihiro Tajiri - He's okay in short TV bouts where he can cycle through his signature spots. Anything beyond that I've found him fundamentally lacking. Adding his own sounds effects for kicks is pretty annoying too.

Sabu - Absolutely terrible. Has lots of matches on the Yearbooks and most people seem to hate on them.

 

Group D:

Chris Benoit - Used to be the greatest wrestler ever to me. Whilst I've greatly expanded my horizons since that time I'd still rate him very highly.

Eddie Guerrero - I'm not as crazy about him as some people, but he was excellent both in the ring and on the mic.

Shawn Michaels - I'd only have to think about him vs Gordy from the other 3 groups, but nowhere near the two guys listed above.

[Goodear]

I think Luger could be more inconsistent than Hunter and had more down periods but had higher highs with his run in the late eighties and early nineties being particularly good. He certainly had some bad habits like shouting with every blow, but I think his good points outweigh his negatives. I really think he could have carried the NWA/WCW ball at some point if he wasn't always holding down the fort for Sting to come in with a bigger story line victory.

[Coffey]

Funny you mention the shouting, Goodear, as that stood out to me last night as well. The flailing, yelling & like slapping his own head, holding his eye whenever he takes a shot.

 

The more of a wrestler I watch, the more the little things start to irk me. The spaghetti legs selling of Terry Funk, the twitching of D-Von, Bret Hart never closing his mouth when he wrestles, you can't help but start to pick up on things after awhile.

[claw64]

The first two groups were easy to rank. The last two groups were not.

 

Group A:
Rick Steiner
Demolition Smash
Road Warrior Animal

Group B:
Terry Gordy
Bam Bam Bigelow
John Tenta

Group C:
2 Cold Scorpio
Sabu
Yoshihiro Tajiri

Group D:
Shawn Michaels
Chris Benoit
Eddie Guerrero

[W2BTD]

A

Rick Steiner - Not crazy about any of these guys, but Steiner is the best athlete and i'll take Steiner Brother matches over Demolition or the Roadies. I hated post Steiners Rick with a passion.

 

Smash

 

Animal

 

B

Bam Bam Bigelow - Easiest #1 choice in any of the groups. He laps the other two. All time great big man.

 

Terry Gordy - Best stuff is in All Japan while working with all time greats. Pretty average in the U.S., I think his World Class stuff is overrated (not bad, just overrated).

 

Earthquake - Does nothing for me. Bored me to tears as a 12 year old, bores me to tears now.

 

C

2 Cold Scorpio - This group is so hard. I could really put them in any order and be happy about it.

 

Sabu - Sabu is unique, there is nobody else like him, and I think people who pick on the botches or repeating spots or wacky match structure are missing the point of what he was. Sabu might be my favorite wrestler to ever watch live. You couldn't take your eyes off of him. There was a real sense of danger in a Sabu match, both for his opponent and for himself. You held your breath at every dive. The botches are part of the charm. You either get it, or you don't. I get it.

 

Tajiri - Love Tajiri, particularly his ECW stuff.

 

D

Eddie Guerrero - Best all around from the start to finish of his career.

 

Shawn Michaels - Connected with crowds better than Benoit, sold & bumped his ass off, great in the big match.

 

Chris Benoit - Overrated. I like him just fine, but to me he was always overrated. Love his intensity.