Billy Robinson

[GOTNW]

Why do you dislike shoot style Parv?

[JerryvonKramer]

I haven't really seen enough of it to really have a developed opinion but the few matches I did watch (all from 1990) bored me to tears.

 

PeteF3 actually does a good job of summing up what I don't like about the style and he's a guy who is also into 70s mat classics and stuff from World of Sport.

 

Hah--I liked the first UWF match and found this to be everything I hate about the style. Circle each other, trade holds, get up, circle each other some more. Every so often unleash a shoot kick to keep people's attention. That's a gross oversimplification of course and there was stuff to like here, but it felt like trawling through a sea of nothing much happening. I didn't get a sense that either man was ever in danger outside of some work over the cross armbreaker towards the beginning and Maeda trying to escape the anklelocks at the very end. Yeah, I get that building parity was the point but there are ways to show parity outside of getting up and resetting 38 times.

Remember what I said about liking my wrestling big? The UWF stuff has a lot of parity. Like every match is Bob Backlund vs Bob Backlund and the fuckers don't want to give anything each other.

 

In something like Inoki vs Robinson, they still sold big for each other even if there is palpable struggle at all times. There are still discernable heat sequences and you don't get this stop, start reset thing PeteF is describing here. Robinson will run the ropes, throw big bombs, jaw at his opponent and do several other things that generally make me feel like I'm watching pro wrestling, whereas I recall the UWF stuff from 1990 not resembling the pro wrestling I recognise and love.

 

I may get round to watching more shoot style, it's not a big priority, but I might. But generally I don't think liking 70s stuff necessarily means you'd dig shoot style (or vice versa).

 

This is actually the second time someone has asked me this, believe the first was re: Dory, who obviously also "belongs" to this 70s mat style. And he's another guy PeteF is high on, funny enough.

 

Inoki is generally a bit too shoot-y for my tastes though and I find him ridiculously boring a lot of the time. I went into the

Robinson match as I go into all Inoki matches expecting to hate it. I really really hated Inoki's Backlund matches.

 

See here for his 69 match vs. Dory: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27872-learning-to-love-dory/?p=5629119

 

Dull for long stretches. I think it is actually a knock on Dory that he couldn't get something more compelling out Inoki, but I've seen people give that match much higher than I have.

 

vs. Jack Brisco, see here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19164-jack-brisco/?p=5637405

 

I saw Inoki have a ****1/2 star match against Jack, and it was DESPITE Inoki, that rating is testament to Brisco's selling abilities. If you read my comments there, you'll see I acknowledge that I'm not big on shoot-yness. I also have a Stan Hansen match vs. Inoki on a high rating DESPITE Inoki.

 

I've also reviewed an Inoki match vs. Destroyer (yet to be published in Microscope) that like the Dory match I gave *** to and bored me to tears for stretches.

 

This one vs. Robinson was the best I've seen him because he wasn't really sitting in the holds, and the Indian deathlocks look like they could legit break someone's ankle. But to me it is a huge feather in Robinson's cap that he could make an Inoki match so interesting.

[GOTNW]

I don't get how someone can think 40 minutes of Jumbo on the mat is "classic" and think 1990 UWF is boring but hey, to each their own. Check out Fujinami and Fujiwara's pro-style work if you want something similar to Billy. And there's plenty of "big" shoot style, especially in UWFi.

[JerryvonKramer]

If you read the reviews, Jumbo doesn't spend 40 mins on the mat vs. Robinson, they are more like bomb throwing contests or "long" sprints.

[JAC]

Parv:

 

There's a great match between Tsuruta and Robinson from 7/17/76 that's worth checking out. The falls are JIP, but there's about 35 or 40 minutes that are shown, so it's about as complete as the Funk v. Brisco match you reviewed on Good Will Wrestling. I couldn't find a YouTube link, but it made a Jumbo Tsuruta commercial tape and aired on TV, so it's out there. If you liked the 1977 matches, you should like this one equally well. A complete version of the 1976 match would be a holy grail for me.

 

I agree with your sentiments on the Robinson matches you reviewed. I've seen them all in the past and am planning on rewatching them soon. I really like the Jumbo matches, as both guys have a lot of high impact suplexes that they can pull out for high spots down the stretch. I love those dead-weight suplexes that were in style during that era. Both guys work at a fine clip, so the matches strike me as being more accessible to viewers more used to modern wrestling.

 

The Baba match is probably my favourite Baba singles match. I've had a hard time getting into Baba because of his awkward look and style, but this match really drew me in.

 

Robinson is such a fun guy to watch. I wish he could have had a run with the NWA Title in the mid- to late-70's. He could have done some interesting work as a touring champion.

[GOTNW]

 

If you read the reviews, Jumbo doesn't spend 40 mins on the mat vs. Robinson, they are more like bomb throwing contests or "long" sprints.

The Jumbo/Billy matches were classic in my estimation and not the subject of my point.

[JerryvonKramer]

Well can you recall a time I've said I love Jumbo on the mat for 40 minutes? I don't think matwork is Jumbo's strongest suit.

[GOTNW]

It may not have been exactly 40 minutes (though it sure felt that way) but the Flair/Jumbo hour long 1983 match is filled with dry matwork. But is that something we really need to go back to?

[JerryvonKramer]

Had a feeling you'd bring that match up and I think -- ironically given that I don't think matwork is Flair's strong suit either -- the matwork in that match is probably right up there with the very best that either guy has ever done.

[Dylan Waco]

Watched the Jumbo matches because I said they would, but my god was it tedious. I just cannot get into the idea of watching that guy for that long. I enjoyed the first match, and thought the roles were clearly defined, with falls that built well from one to the other. Robinson almost comes across as surviving due to the young kids mistake and singular reliance on a bulldog which I liked. I thought it was a real good match, with all the quality staples of Robinson (fun escapes, cool leverage/struggle spots, those awesome escalating bumps), and sense of controlled chaos that is hard to hit on effectively. Definitely a mach I'd recommend to others.

 

The second match never grabbed me. I realize they were carrying over some of the stuff from the first match and working stuff off of it, but it almost felt like it was stuff they felt obligated to go to, rather than some grand psychological plan. I HATED big chunks of the Jumbo in control stuff early. Just meandering stuff at times where I guess it was supposed to have a king of the mountain feel, but instead it made everything seem awkward. I liked the matwork in theory, but it paled in comparison to a lot of the grappling I've watched this week so it didn't stand out as much as it probably should have. In no way would I argue that it was bad despite the shit finish, but I can't imagine watching it again.

[elliott]

I ranked Billy Robinson 52nd in 2016 and I feel great about that. His best matches are amazing. He's always interesting to watch regardless of opponent. Really he's one of those guys where the weirder he opponent the more excited I am to watch the match. I'd always like to see more. A specific request if anyone's got one one off the top of their head, is there a great Robinson brawl?

[Matt D]

15 minutes ago, elliott said:

A specific request if anyone's got one one off the top of their head, is there a great Robinson brawl?

 

[elliott]

I shouldve just looked for a Robinson vs Abby match to begin with.

[elliott]

Update:

Watched the Abdullah match and it is fucking gooood and exactly the sort of thing I wanted to see from Robinson. I feel like I've never seen him in a truly vulnerable position before. When he's trading holds or selling a submission he might be in peril or whatever, but I've never felt like he was in danger. Robinson is too talented and too at home in a grappling sort of match that even when he's locked in a hold and selling his ass off, I'm still waiting for him to figure a way out of it. When you're in there against Abdullah you're inherently in danger.  Getting bombed with headbutts by a monster is not Billy Robinson in his element. I really enjoyed Abby's dominating Robinson through the first part of the match. Abby was his typical awesome 70s self. Robinson's selling is terrific. I LOVE the transition to Robinson's comeback. Ordinarily if you get to close to Billy Robinson, you're playing into his game. If he can grab you, he can control you. YOu can't do that with Abby. Get to close to Abby and he's gonna headbutt, chop, bite, stab you or whatever. Getting to close to Billy Robinson might lose you a wrestling match. Getting to close to Abdullah gets you maimed. So the transition plays this up. Billy might be getting overwhelmed by Abdullah but he's still a master of close combat. So he manages to find Abby's rhythm and start blocking headbutts and kicks. But he he needs to create distance too. So he uses rope runs to get away from Abby while also gaining momentum for his strikes. He needs to stick and move but his sticks need to STICK. Robinson's comeback is just the sort of thing you want to see. Lots of great looking shots for revenge on the dangerous monster. Its a 70s AJPW match with Abby so you know how it'll end. But the crowd brawling is still really exciting. All around really good stuff. If you're looking for Billy Robinson in  a brawl, this is it.