Pat Patterson

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Timbo Slice]

Is there much of Patterson out there? Has a reputation as a good hand and supposedly his work with Ray Stevens is all-time worthy stuff. Did much of San Francisco ever make tape?

[JerryvonKramer]

Needs more attention, looking at people's lists he looks like he's being lost In the shuffle.

[Dylan Waco]

Is there enough meat for him to be anything more than a lower tier "I want to include him" pick? There are very few people I would even consider for this project on less than 4 years of footage (by that I mean a reasonable sample size from a 4 year period), does Pat have that? If not does he have 5-10 all time classics that could hurdle him onto the bottom tier of my ballot even without the extended run?

[JerryvonKramer]

He has stuff in San Francisco footage, and some smatterings in LA. Unfortunately, when my hard disk died, I lost that footage. But he looked fantastic in what I saw ... I uploaded one vs Lars Anderson and did my own commentary.

 

I think during 1979 we get enough of a picture of him to know that he was a phenomenal worker. Played to the cheap seats, expressive, great at bumping and stooging. He seems just like that in earlier footage. He was a great heel. But then vs Slaughter we see him as a great babyface, fired up, heart and spirit, blood and guts. And again in the SF footage you can see this. Patterson worked both face and heel there.

 

He could wrestle and he could brawl.

 

And unlike Ray Stevens, where the footage doesn't backup the rep, here it does. There is probably as much footage of Patterson on tape as there is of Jack Brisco. It's not a much as we'd like but enough to make a call, I think.

 

And he had cool hair.

[Dylan Waco]

Do you think 79 Paterson was one of the best years in wrestling history? Because to get in on one year on my list it would have to be a top ten all time year at worst

[JerryvonKramer]

I don't think so. If you go only on great matches or whatever, I don't think Patterson makes your list. He's probably going to be in my 80-100 "guys I really want to vote for" range.

 

He's going to be below guys who have more footage but who were likely inferior workers, but you can only infer so much from 8mm silent footage and clips. He was semi-retired during the Slaughter stuff, so that's all there is, and so there's a lot hanging on that 79, and while he's MVP for the year, it's not like a Rude in 92 year.

[Dylan Waco]

I'm not dismissing him out of hand, and I'm not a great match theorist, but if you are going in on so little footage/so few years of footage you need something big like some all time classics, or a great run of a couple of years. I agree that what we have of Paterson gives us a real glimpse at what he probably was like in his working prime in San Fran. But I don't vote on probablies. I wouldn't fault anyone for voting for him in the bottom tier, but not sure he has much of a chance with me given the depth or the field.

[JerryvonKramer]

I just came across this:

 

From Barnett's Australian WCW in 1968.

 

Here's the Lars Anderson match I did commentary on:

 

I need to see if I can obtain the lost footage again to see what else there is.

 

I'm not saying you should base a case on this stuff, but rather to point out that the 1979 isn't ALL there is and we do actually get a glimpse of him in his prime.

 

----

 

Dylan, for me the Alley Fight vs. Slaughter is an all-time classic (5-stars, and for me comparible to Magnum vs. Tully or Funks vs. Shiek/Abby '78). I love the way that entire feud plays out, but the MSG match is something else. He has good to very good matches with Ted DiBiase, Bob Backlund and Ken Patera. He is still good in 1980-81, but wrestling less frequently due to commentating.

 

I wouldn't fault anyone for not having him in their 100 though, I just can't in good conscious leave him out because I rate his work in the ring, his core skills, too much. He's a guy a lot of the current roster could learn a lot from in terms of performance -- everyone talks about him as a great mind for the business and as a finish man, but they could learn a thing or two from him about how to make things count in a match.

 

Some guys with more "modern sensibilities" might not like aspects of the "cartooniness" of some of his performance. But I'd expect guys with views like that to be lower on Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Jack Brisco, Rick Martel, Ricky Steamboat and others from that era who played to the cheap seats. I like "big" performance. Wrestling isn't theatre, it's pantomime. It's why I even have time for Mr. Perfect bumping.

[Wade Garrett]

I wish I could be more helpful in regards to Patterson and even Stevens. As I stated in my introduction to the board I cut my teeth on SF in the 60's but being I'm 56 I was very young at the time and memories only get ya so far. However both were very influential on me becoming a fan. I guess you could say they'd be picks based on nostalgia if they made my list. For a project like this though it's probably unfair.

 

Buddy Rogers, Pat Patterson, Ray Stevens, and Johnny Valentine all fall into this category I guess.

 

I must say some of ya guys are amazing in your dedication to analyzing matches at the level ya do! Where do ya find the time!?

[Dylan Waco]

If someone saw Pat in real time and regarded him as an all timer and top ten contender for something like this I would have no problem with it.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The set up match vs Slaughter that leads to the Alley fight is a fucking amazing performance from both guys. The match was intended to be a set up and they both play their roles in that performance style so fucking well. It's great when we look at the big blow off matches in programs , but the art of properly doing the set up match is just as important. And that one was fucking perfect.

[Timbo Slice]

Won't really be able to consider him until I see the Rio IC Title tourney footage.

[elliott]

I love the Slaughter matches and there's some good stuff with Backlund but he's always been someone I wanted to like more than I actually do. I'll keep trying. Throws a hell of a punch. Happy to take recommendations if people are passionate about anything. 

[Reel]

I would say vs Patera 4/21/80 is pretty great and the best of the non Slaughter/Backlund stuff we have. He has a good match with DiBiase in 79 I like too, and a TV match with Johnny Rodz that I think is worth checking out. 

I like Patterson, but I don't see him in the same light as a guy like Johnny Valentine, where we have a small amount of footage but the guy just seems transcendent. He's very good in the footage we have of his late career, and based on his reputation his prime stuff was probably incredible, but I don't get the same NO DOUBT feeling I do when I watch other limited footage guys.