Black Terry

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Jetlag]

This blog post says more about Terry than I ever could

http://segundacaida.blogspot.de/search?q=Black+Terry

 

Long, excellent career with plenty of classics and hidden gems sprinkled throughout. Pretty great run for a guy who pops up only sporadically, and when he was showing up more regularily thanks to his kid from 2009-2011 he was delivering high quality stuff sometimes twice a day. Great brawler and technical worker, who has that "it" in him to produce epic moments similiar to other lucha greats like Sangre Chicana.

[ohtani's jacket]

At the peak of Black Terry Jr footage, I thought he was a top ten luchador all-time on tape. He's been a bit out of sight out of mind of late, but what the great brawlers in lucha history and one of the great character workers. It gets to the point where it sounds like a broken record, but I'd desperately like to have footage of him from his younger days. I can't imagine he was anything less than sensational from the mid 80s through to the early 90s.

[goodhelmet]

Black Terry/Negro Navarro vs. Trauma I & Trauma II (LUCHA POP 8/27/11)

 

Who is the father of the Traumas in this match? Is it Terry or Navarro?

[ohtani's jacket]

Navarro is their father.

[Dylan Waco]

Terry in 2010 is probably the best individual year I've seen out of anyone in recent memory. He had some great stuff in the years right before that that made tape and some great stuff in the couple years after, but has dried up some in the last eighteen months or so. Still a guy with a year as great as Terry's 2010 will make my ballot somewhere

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Terry is in the maybe pile for me. His biggest attribute is his longevity, as you look at him working now and you look at him working in the early 90s, and there's really no difference. Nearly always looked the best guy in the maestros matches I saw. Willing to take big bumps. Great brawling, can hang on the mat, though sometimes I thought he gave too much on the mat. I'm not as high on some of the high end stuff as others seem to be, and there are a lot of gaps in his career which is a problem for me.

[Dylan Waco]

I've been thinking about him a lot over the last few weeks because on the surface he seems like he should be less of a sure thing than the other lucha candidates I have declared myself absolutely in favor of (unrelated to this post, but Pirata Morgan can definitely be added to that list). He is a guy who theoretically has a long run of great matches, but so little of it is captured on tape that there is no way we can be sure. He's never worked in front of the brightest spotlights. Many of his best matches have dropped off of YouTube in their complete, and while they are still available via Black Terry Jr., it's unlikely that many of them will ever be seen by a large number of people again.

 

And yet this is a guy who I absolutely do feel has to be on my list, and it's largely because of a run that started when he was well into his 50's. Because the truth is that just has Chris Hamrick made me an indie wrestling fan, Terry is really the guy who made me a lucha fan.

 

I first started getting into lucha toward the end of 06 as YouTube started to explode in popularity, but it really wasn't until 08 that I became a semi-regular viewer. This semi-regular viewing would sustain itself for a few weeks at a time, then filter out, and I'd come back to watch a handful of highly touted matches every now and again. Then toward the end of 2009 it came to my attention that IWRG was being taped by Black Terry Jr. and uploaded to YouTube in full. And while I immediately fell in love with people like Los Traumas, Freelance, Chico Che, Dr. Cerebro, Negro Navarro, and others, it was looking forward to seeing what sort of genius performance Black Terry was going to make that hooked me. I went from being a casual viewer, to a regular viewer who would watch the shows with his kid almost overnight.

 

Below is a list of matches thrown together at WKO from Terry's 2010, which was his best year and really the high point of the IWRG run as a whole. Aside from the volume (26 matches, all of which got a lot of time), the other thing that is really notable is that there is not a singles match on this list at all. This is remarkable when you consider that Terry absolutely jumped out from the pack this year and distinguished himself as both the best wrestler in the promotion and in the world (in a tough year to claim that mantle). Even considering the much smaller number of singles matches in Mexico relative to the U.S., Japan, Canada, PR, or the UK, it's simply amazing to think that a guy had such a brilliant year without ever having a singles stand out performance. Even great trios workers like Virus are remembered and stand out for their singles matches, with most trios or tag performances barely remembered. Not with Terry.

 

Another thing worth considering is that there is a lot of variety on this list and in Terry's run in general (going from memory I'd argue 08-12 was his "peak" run in terms of combining decent amount of footage with high end performance, but I'd want to go back and look over some lists to be sure of that). He is a brilliant matworking maestro, but he's also an excellent brawler. On the list below you have great matches v. up and comers and vets, matches that run all over the arena and see guys getting beaten with buckets of beer and cacti....and matches that are worked hold for hold. Blood feuds and calculated games of uber competitive showmanship.

 

With Hamrick the great matches don't really exist on tape, at least not in meaningfully large number. But with Terry - the guy who is most responsible for making me a lucha fan forever - there is a list this deep for one year, and many other high end bouts that can be pointed to in the years before and after. No offense to Fuerza Guerrera or LA Park. I might end up voting for both. But I can't rate them over Terry.

 

w/ Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro vs. Pantera, Suicida, & Zatura (IWRG, 1/7)
w/ Dr. Cerebro vs. Gringo Loco & El Hijo del Diablo (IWRG, 1/24)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Negro Navarro vs. Solar I, Suicida, & Zatura (IWRG, 1/28)
w/ Gringo Loco, Avisman, Bombero Infernal, Dr. Cerebro, Trauma I, Trauma II & El Hijo del Pantera vs. El Hijo del Signo, Heros, Maldito Jr., Samot, Alan Extreme, Guizmo, Imperial, & Dinamic Black (IWRG, 2/4)
w/ Dr. Cerebro vs. Gringo Loco & El Hijo del Diablo (IWRG, 2/7)
w/ Sangre Chicana & Negro Navarro vs. Olimpico, Solar I, & Rocky Santana (AULL, 2/13)
w/ Shu el Guerrero vs. Negro Navarro & El Signo (???, 2/14)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & El Hijo del Signo vs. Pantera, Zatura, El Hijo del Pantera (IWRG, 2/18)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Trauma I vs. Pantera, Zatura, El Hijo del Pantera (IWRG, 2/18)
w/ Negro Navarro & El Signo vs. Los Cadetes Espacios (Monterrey, 3/2)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Chico Che vs. Gringos VIP (IWRG, 3/7)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & El Hijo del Signo vs. Negro Navarro, Trauma II, & Barba Roja (IWRG, 3/11)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Chico Che vs. Gringos VIP (IWRG, 3/14)
w/ Negro Navarro & Villano IV vs. Blue Panther, Ultimo Dragon, & Olimpico (UWE, 4/24)
w/ Cerebro Negro vs. Los Traumas (IWRG, 4/29)
w/ Negro Navarro vs. Ultraman & Solar I (Arena Neza, 5/1)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro vs. Gringos VIP (IWRG, 6/5)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro vs. La Ola Maldita (IWRG, 6/24)
w/ Solar I vs. Fuerza Guerrera & Negro Navarro (Tlahuac, 7/7)
w/ Solar I vs. Rocky Santana & Negro Navarro (NWA Mexico, 7/23)
w/ Negro Navarro vs. Solar I & Mano Negra (???, 9/12)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro vs. La Ola Maldita (IWRG, 10/17)
w/ Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro vs. Angel Mortal, Espectro, & Gallego (IWRG, 11/14)
w/ Shu el Guerrero vs. Dos Caras & Negro Navarro (Centro de Desarrollo Social AA, 11/20)
w/ Negro Navarro vs. Solar I & El Hijo del Black Shadow (Gimnasio Juan de la Barrera, 12/18)

[Matt D]

When there's a question of how devoted any of us are in this project, "spending money on Black Terry matches" is just about where I draw the line. I think he's probably not going to make my list due to lack of expertise, even though I think he should probably be there.

 

That said, if anyone was going to make the list almost solely on reviews of people I trust, it'd be him.

[Phil Schneider]

There are some of the great 2009 stuff still online

 

 

Segunda Caida review here

 

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/07/black-terry-aint-got-no-ills-black_05.html

[Phil Schneider]

 

 

 

 

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-name-is-black-terry-i-hate-you-one.html

[Matt D]

Alright, alright. I had an annoyingly crappy hair match from 2012 to write up for Friday and then tournament lucha next week, so I'll just scrap that and travel back over the ground you tread six years ago to hotshot Black Terry onto my list instead.

[Poneglyph]

I saw Black Terry live twice. The first time was at a Chilanga Mask show in Guadalajara where he tagged with some local guy against the Traumas. I already loved Terry, but I wasn't fully able to explain why. I knew he was brilliant both in technical matches and violent brawls, that he had great punches, that he was charismatic but I couldn't explain what made him so special until I experienced it live.

 

The match started with both teams trading holds, with each one being more violent than the other. You got the sense that each time one of the Traumas tried to submit him, it was an affront to Terry's honor and you perfectly understood why he would apply the next one a little bit stronger, so Trauma II would learn a lesson. When the first punch happened, it was as if nothing else could have happened. The violence had reached a point that it was inevitable. They had to punch each other, they had to brawl all around ringside.

 

After that, Chilanga Mask booked two matches between Black Terry and Hechicero. Both followed the same pattern - they started trading holds and ended brawling with their legs trapped between the chairs of the arena in the first and with Terry throwing Hechicero a box full of bottles in the second. And both those extremely violent moments felt like the only logical things that could happen after the escalation of violence in each match.

 

In my opinion, that is Terry's greatest strenght. Not only is he great trading holds or throwing punches, he manages to put all of his character in any one of those things to the point where they feel like the only possible thing in that moment. That's something kind of amazing to watch.

[ohtani's jacket]

When there's a question of how devoted any of us are in this project, "spending money on Black Terry matches" is just about where I draw the line. I think he's probably not going to make my list due to lack of expertise, even though I think he should probably be there.

 

That said, if anyone was going to make the list almost solely on reviews of people I trust, it'd be him.

 

I can't keep track of lucha comings and goings anymore, but before the period where we were getting semi-weekly IWRG stuff, footage would pop up of amazing Terry carry jobs against guys like Multifacetico. Terry was a great character wrestler and an excellent brawler. I like him on the mat against smaller guys, but in general I thought his technical stuff was weaker than his brawling and he was guilty of "your turn/my turn" on the mat when it came to releasing holds. He was a great trios worker in the period people are talking about and a tremendous bleeder too. Everything I've seen from his younger days suggests he was better when he was older. He wasn't a major player in his younger days and I can't imagine he got too many opportunities to shine unless his singles matches were outstanding, which I have my doubts over.

[pantherwagner]

There's not a giant pile of young Black Terry around but he was one of those very underrated guys back then with smart fans (same could be said about Jose Luis Feliciano). Steve Sims saw Terry/Feliciano several times on non televised matches during his early 90s Mexico trips and he called them the most underrated tag team (not trio) in Mexico... but I'm not sure he'd have made anyone's top 25 or maybe even top 50 Mexican wrestlers of the year back then. When he was Guerrero Maya was considered a very capable journeyman that would never get out of the tercera at Arena Mexico. Can't remember anybody ever claiming he was misused or underpushed. His non wrestling business were doing pretty well so he was completely gone for a decade or maybe more.

 

That's partly why his comeback was so amazing on so many levels. He came out of nowhere and he was incredible.

 

Negro Navarro to an extent had a similar story. Post UWA death he'd pop up randomly at some shows for AAA or perhaps ENESMA, OCESA or PROMELL or GWAS or whatever the flavour of the month new hotshot promotion was, and he'd look like a guy on the card. Historically he was considered to be the 3rd best worker in the Misioneros team (obviously talking about the Signo/Texano version, not the Black Power version) then he showed up on IWRG and we were all wondering how could have we missed him being such an amazing legendary superworker.

 

That being said both men's "old man career" is so great that you could throw away anything their did in their 20s and 30s and you could put them on your top half of the list and I'd not disagree with it at all. I also acknowledge this is a grand statement for Navarro because we'd probably think differently if we had hours and hours of Misioneros matches from their prime.

[KB8]

Terry was my 65 in 2016 and for now I'm pretty happy with that, but like about 200 other lucha candidates there's always the chance someone will discover a treasure trove of footage and he'll shoot up the list 64 places. We have very little of his "physical prime" years, or even the years when he was in his 40s...or a chunk of his 50s. Most of what we have is when he was at or around 60. It's just that, hey, this old guy here who's tougher than shoe leather and 58 years old is the best wrestler on the fucking planet. So that's pretty cool, right? That 2010 run was incredible and some of the most fun I've ever had following a wrestling promotion in real time. Every week some new footage shot by his own kid would show up on YouTube and it would range from fun to spectacular. I love him working holds and he's a brilliant maestro, but it's rabid old man brawling Terry that's truly life-affirming and he has some of the best lucha bar fights of the last decade-plus to his name. And he's even built on his case from 2016 with the Barbaro Cavernario, Demus and especially the Wotan matches. I'll do the match recs because I've done them for everyone else so far, but for Terry you should just go to the Segunda Caida Complete & Accurate.

 

BLACK TERRY YOU SHOULD WATCH:

v Multifacetico (IWRG, 4/17/08)

w/Dr. Cerebro & Cerebro Negro v Trauma I, Trauma II & Ultraman Jr. (IWRG, 10/29/09)

w/Chico Che & Dr. Cerebro v Avisman, El Hijo del Diablo & Gringo Loco (IWRG, 3/7/10)

v Chico Che (IWRG, 1/22/12)

v Wotan (Chilanga Mask, 8/21/16)

[ohtani's jacket]

It was such a long time ago that we were watching the Terry stuff. Did he do much after the Wotan match? I feel like his candidacy needs a shot in the arm. The same with Navarro. 

[KB8]

He has the seedy brawl with Demus from 2017 that would definitely add to his case, but I haven't watched much Terry in recent years either, tbh. It's such a shame that the 2009-2011 stuff might never see the light of day again (unless Jr. is still selling stuff). 

[Rah]

10 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

It was such a long time ago that we were watching the Terry stuff. Did he do much after the Wotan match? I feel like his candidacy needs a shot in the arm. The same with Navarro. 

I've yet to watch them but there seems to be a few possible hits:

vs Virus
vs Panther
vs Rush
vs Cerebro
some tags with Navarro/Panther/Lucero as well as the usual Trauma stuff

Some I have no idea how they'd be:
Terry/Skayde vs Penta/Fenix
vs Erick Ortiz
vs the other older (past their prime) guys Solar/Super Astro etc

Those are just the ones I've got queued to watch. I'm sure there are more I'm missing.

[Phil Schneider]

He is also 68 years old,  I mean even if he hasn't had great matches in the latter half of his 60s, I don't think we can hold that against him. He was having Match of the Decade contenders in the early part of his 60s.

[smoldoink]

He currently has the runaway MOTY against Ricky Marvin (4/25/21) 

[Phil Schneider]

I just watched that to try to find a 2020s Terry classic, and it was incredible. His performance in that match was as good as the stuff a decade ago, and Marvin was great too. It's on IWTV if folks have that, and pretty much a must see.

[Phil Schneider]

Pretty crazy that I was arguing something along the lines of "How can we expect a 68 year old man to still put on incredible performances" and then I watch a 68 year old man put on an incredible performance. What a fucking legend

[Phil Schneider]

Terry vs. Mr. Condor from earlier this month is legitimately one of the greatest brawls I have ever seen. It will probably end up the SC 2021 MOTY (And I have fucking loved some 2021 Matches), Terry is 69 years old and had two legit MOTY's this year with the Condor match and the Marvin match. At this point I would have a hard time keeping him out of the top 20

[Rah]

5 hours ago, Phil Schneider said:

Terry vs. Mr. Condor from earlier this month is legitimately one of the greatest brawls I have ever seen. It will probably end up the SC 2021 MOTY (And I have fucking loved some 2021 Matches), Terry is 69 years old and had two legit MOTY's this year with the Condor match and the Marvin match. At this point I would have a hard time keeping him out of the top 20

Do you mean the Zona 23 match? Also check out the Demus main event, if you haven't.

The fact Terry, at 69, is working violent deathmatches in car graveyards is the best. I'm not sure it's good for his health (of course, it isn't) but it's producing great stuff. I think there was a threeway with Pirata, Terry and Romano Garcia, too. Pirata is a shell of his former self but he's willing to gush blood and take a beating. That's all that's needed in these, really. 

 

Is Mr Condor someone we should keep an eye on? Such a weird trajectory (in online discourse): lost his mask to a very green Rey and just pops up now, again.