Tim Cooke Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 After a second viewing in two days, I have found another lost match. February 22 1987 Rock n Roll Express v Manny Fernandez/Rick Rude (Worldwide) This match should suck. First off, the WTBS Tag Title Switch was pretty mediocre (live crowds > studio crowds for the most part). Second, Rude is 100x better than he was three years prior in Memphis but he is still green. And Manny has never been a favorite of mine. Third, Gibson plays the face in peril. But hot damn if this didn't come together so well. The first half is all RnR with double teams and heel stooging, even with useless Paul Jones becoming somewhat useful. He isn't Cornette but who is. Since Rude/Fernandez "stole" the win on WTBS, the RnR are out for their titles and revenge so they work on the arm of whichever heel is in the ring. And this isn't the Andersons using mid 50's arm bars to 'work' the arm. This has Morton and Gibson working everything around arm drags into arm bars but never staying in an arm bar for more than a few seconds. Morton brings the Backlund spot of wrenching the arm out of the socket on Rude. Even though he is really only good at punches, forearms, scoop slam, an out of no where top rope knee drop half way across the ring [Eaton must have shown him that] and decent bumping, Rude brings the great facials when Morton is wrenching his arm, making the crowd roar that their heroes are making these dirtbags pay. Gibson adds in his 'tag in, jump over top rope and drop knee on to 'whatever body part is being worked on." That may be the single greatest spot in the history of tag team wrestling. You can do it on ANY body part, it looks good, it pops the crowd, and it is generally great. Destroyer would do his great handstand kneedrop numerous times throughout matches but this is a great take on tag team wrestling. I used to think the Fantastics killed the RnR because they brought flash and more highspots. The more RnR I watch, the more it shows I was wrong. Another cool spot if Morton throwing Manny out of the ring, Manny coming right back in, repeat on the other side, Manny gets on ring apron and goes for sunset flip. You see this a lot today in tag team wrestling with heels who wrestle with face spots. So I am thinking "crap, a reason not to like this." And Morton blocks and buries punches to to Manny. A really nice take on a heel revenge spot that is spoiled by the quicker faces. Comml happens and we come back and Gibson is in peril, with Manny using nerve holds to keep him down. In addition to the Rick Mysterio Rude and his flying knee, Manny brings a clotheslines that is devastating. As I went through all of my 1986 NWA TV, I was wondering when the unreal heat started to fade out in wrestling. Stuff like the screams when the heels would double team cheat behind the refs back. I had some pre-conceived notion that is was in 1987 but clearly not at this point. Manny drawing Morton in and then double teaming Gibson while the ref is with Morton got a lot of screams and heat. The finish is a Dusty fustercluck, but I was entertained since they worked it that the faces had *2* clear finishes on Manny Fernandez and if they get a NO-DQ match or something where the ref doesn't get bumped, they will regain their titles. ----------------------------------------------- Savage v Lawler (Loser Leaves Town 1985) - only had the final 5 minutes of this on DVD and I hope a more complete version is out there. They do nothing but throw punches and it gets a hot, hot, hot reaction. Savage in Memphis is so much better than Savage in WWF. Loss or anyone want to point me to more Lanny Poffo matches as well? Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 (live crowds > studio crowds for the most part) Agreed except I remember watching some solid studio matches while converting all of that NWA tv. I know Garvin-Windham were involved in a really long nice match (with the Andersons?) and I enjoyed Tully and Arn's TV title defenses when they would like hell to get to the ten minute mark to retain the belt. I used to think the Fantastics killed the RnR because they brought flash and more highspots. The more RnR I watch, the more it shows I was wrong. I think part of this is because the Fans were working such high-end matches in All Japan long after the RNRs ceased to be relavent. However, in the mid-80s, you can def. make the argument that the RNRs were just as high end as Fans. Also, I have not seen the Fans matches from the Mid South house shows which you said were disappointing. Comml happens and we come back and Gibson is in peril, with Manny using nerve holds to keep him down. In addition to the Rick Mysterio Rude and his flying knee, Manny brings a clotheslines that is devastating. I think that is my biggest problem with many heels of the 80s... their choice of restholds. I hate, hate, hate the friggin nerve hold (if it is the same one I am thinking about). I would rather see the full nelson or bear hug (even though those were probably cliche long before I started watching). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Loss or anyone want to point me to more Lanny Poffo matches as well? What work of Poffo's have you seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Just the two matches with Savage v RnR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 His stuff as the Genius is interesting but the gimmick usually takes priority over the wrestling. His tag work with Mr. Perfect in 89/90 was decent though I'm unsure of how many times they teamed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I used to dismiss Lanny Poffo as someone who was only around thanks to family ties, but his Mid-South work made me think he might be another guy the WWF dropped the ball on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I always thought he was more suited to being a manager. Good talker and charisma but totally unbelievable in the land of giants that the WWF was in the 80s and early 90s. I think had he entered wrestling in the 90s he would've turned out a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I think Poffo would have had a better chance performance-wise in the NWA, but he probably wouldn't have had the longevity he enjoyed in the WWF. It's actually quite remarkable he managed to stay with the company for so long without being a roided up giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 It's actually quite remarkable he managed to stay with the company for so long without being a roided up giant. Most likely because his brother was a top guy in the company for nearly a decade. If Lanny was on his own he wouldn't have lasted into the 90s. From his run with Hennig, you knew Vince liked his charisma and character but there was no way he would push someone that size as a serious threat. With that being said he did get a countout win over Hogan on SNME and went over Hercules, Tito Santana, Jim Neidhart, etc. on the house show circuit for a time in 1990. So Vince did have somewhat of a soft spot for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 This is depressing. A post who's main focus was the RNR turns into a main discussion on Lanny Poffo's WWF career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Lanny Poffo is one of my favorite eternal curtain jerkers. He had a match with Adrian Adonis on 12/29/85 in Toronto I think that was shot for TV. I got rid of the tape because the VQ wasn't hot, but I think I know where I can replace it. It only goes about five minutes, but it's better than at least half of the matches that made the 80s set at DVDVR. I think it's a good, if abbreviated, example of what both guys are capable of. Also, did you ever get the Memphis DVDs Will converted from my VHS tape? It was a 12/84-03/85 TV comp with tons of Lawler/Savage/Poffo/Fabs on it. One of the matches was Eddie Gilbert & Lanny Poffo against the Fabs. Shown in full from Mid South Coliseum. Not worth going out of your way to hunt down, but it's another good showing from Poffo. I'm thinking he also had one or more TV matches against Ted DiBiase in 1987-1988 WWF that were pretty good, but don't quote me on that. From the 01/90 SNME, watch Hennig and Poffo take on Hogan and Warrior. It's a surprisingly good match, carried almost entirely by the heel side, unsurprisingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Campbell Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 It's not that depressing Will, Tim *did* ask in his initial post about Lanny Poffo matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Sure he did but he wrote several paragraphs on the RNR vs. RNR match and asked one Lanny Poffo question. No one commented on the RNR but everyone jumped in on Poffo. That depresses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Agreed except I remember watching some solid studio matches while converting all of that NWA tv. I know Garvin-Windham were involved in a really long nice match (with the Andersons?) The match you're thinking of is the US tag title tournament final against the MX. I think part of this is because the Fans were working such high-end matches in All Japan long after the RNRs ceased to be relavent. Were they? The RNR were still having great matches as late as 1995 in SMW. That's about the same timetable as the Fantastics. I think reasonable comparisons can be made. I think the difference comes in the fact that the Fans were able to adapt in more environments, but they didn't have the staying power Morton and Gibson had in the US. I don't know if I'd say the RNRs were better than the Fans in the 90s, but it's definitely a point worth looking into. The loser leaves town SMW cage match from '94 against the Bodies holds its own against all but a very tiny handful of matches. I'm *really* wanting to see some of their 2004-2005 indy matches, meaning the current MX/Rock & Rolls feud that's being booked to headline in indies everywhere. Morton has really stayed good with age, but I'm not sure about Gibson. I haven't seen a worthwhile Bobby Eaton match in over 10 years, but it's been equally long since he was put in a position to have a good match, so who knows? However, in the mid-80s, you can def. make the argument that the RNRs were just as high end as Fans. Also, I have not seen the Fans matches from the Mid South house shows which you said were disappointing. I've not watched any of the Fans matches, but RNRs/DWBs *SUCKED*, or at least the one match I watched did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 While we're in this thread, Tim, you mentioned a while back that you're almost afraid to go back and watch some other stuff you hold in high regard because the Memphis footage you've been watching has done such a number on you. Would you care to go more in depth on that sometime soon? I think that would be a great read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Tm, found another RNR vs. RNR match on the 12/14 WWW show. This was non-title and in front of a big crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 MX v RnR? RnR v Manny/Rude? Is this from the package you just got from Ginnetty? Now I am doubly excited. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 RnR v Manny/Rude. They keep referring to themselves as R N R (Ragin' N Ravishin'). It ends in a DQ and sets up the title change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Lanny Poffo used to wrestle in World Grand Prix but I can't really remember that far back. My father and a worker I used to work with are fans of him and know him from there. It'd be interesting to see his work from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 More NWA goodness coming your way... Koloff & Murdoch vs. Garvin & Windham. 3-14-87 When I walked into the room, I was worried that Petrov would have been on the apron but it was a pleasant surprise to see Murdoch in all his evil splendor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Just watched that match last week. Liked it but it was just a good studio TV match....not that that's a bad thing. I'm really having some severe trouble in re-watching Japanese stuff to answer the question Loss posed. Don't know what it is but hopefully just a phase. I know the matches are good but I am just not feeling them where as the Savage/Poffo v RnR Express matches from Memphis are making me totally flip out. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 How do you have that match? Also, I think it probably is just a phase. I don't know how long you were watching All Japan matches but after seeing them for so long, it can get mind numbing. After recording about 42 hours of NWA straight for a week, I didn't want to look at it again. Same thing for me and Memphis. You have the privilege of just kicking back and watching it at your discretion. When I transferred the last batch of Memphis, I was happy it was done... esp. since I couldn't just fast forward through horrible, horrible JD Costello interviews. With that said, I loved Dutch's interview about chewing tobaccy with Dundee and how hurt he was when Dundee betrayed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted October 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 It's on Barnett's NWA comps. Volume 4 I think. The Dutch/Dundee/Landel break up angle is so awesome. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 DUH! Ok, well, you will have a better copy soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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