Ranking The WrestleManias - The Top 10

[JaymeFuture]

This week we are doing the final part in our series of podcasts debating the rankings for all 30 WrestleManias in order, from worst to first in blocks of ten, and would like to get some feedback to read on the shows.

I've written an article on what I feel are the Top 10 (if you're interested in the rationale behind the rankings you can read the article here: http://steelchair.co.uk/ranking-the-wrestlemanias-the-top-10), and want to hear what agreements or disagreements people have with it, what you would rank higher or lower, and most importantly, why.

For those who don't want to read the whole article, the Top 10 as I have them are:

#10 - WrestleMania 30 (2014)
#9 - WrestleMania 28 (2012)
#8 - WrestleMania 20 (2004)
#7 - WrestleMania 23 (2007)
#6 - WrestleMania 21 (2005)
#5 - WrestleMania 19 (2003)
#4 - WrestleMania 14 (1998)
#3 - WrestleMania 10 (1994)
#2 - WrestleMania 3 (1987)
#1 - WrestleMania 17 (2001)

We'll be debating the order on the shows and reading your responses and crediting you accordingly, so what do you think?

 

The podcast debating the list and discussing your feedback and thoughts is now available at the following link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/er62xj/SCGRadio33-RankingtheWrestleManias-TheTop10.mp3

[Grimmas]

This week we are doing the final part in our series of podcasts debating the rankings for all 30 WrestleManias in order, from worst to first in blocks of ten, and would like to get some feedback to read on the shows.

 

I've written an article on what I feel are the Top 10 (if you're interested in the rationale behind the rankings you can read the article here: http://steelchair.co.uk/ranking-the-wrestlemanias-the-top-10), and want to hear what agreements or disagreements people have with it, what you would rank higher or lower, and most importantly, why.

 

For those who don't want to read the whole article, the Top 10 as I have them are:

 

#10 - WrestleMania 30 (2014)

#9 - WrestleMania 28 (2012)

#8 - WrestleMania 20 (2004)

#7 - WrestleMania 23 (2007)

#6 - WrestleMania 21 (2005)

#5 - WrestleMania 19 (2003)

#4 - WrestleMania 14 (1998)

#3 - WrestleMania 10 (1994)

#2 - WrestleMania 3 (1987)

#1 - WrestleMania 17 (2001)

 

We'll be debating the order on the shows and reading your responses and crediting you accordingly, so what do you think?

14 and 21 aren't top 10 material. They are good shows, but nothing too spectacular. 28 I don't even remember at this moment, so that doesn't seem like an all-time show. Looked it up and Punk-Jericho and Rock-Cena are alright to great moments and the rest of the show was either awful or just there. How is that better than 7?

[BigBadMick]

I'm a 17 at no1 and 19 at no2 guy.

 

Possibly 30 at 3, then 23 as my top 4.

[Sidebottom]

24 needs to be in this.

 

Edge / Undertaker was blinding.

Big Show / Mayweather was great fun.

Ric Flair / Michaels was memorable for the emotion.

The ladder match was a good stunt show.

 

The arena looked amazing, the music themes that year... it just felt like a great Wrestlemania.

[Dylan Waco]

21 and 28 standout to me as the "odd" picks here.

 

21 is a tough one because a lot of it hinges on how highly you view Angle v. Shawn. I have no use for the match at all (don't hate it, but I don't think it's particularly good either), so I don't think much of the show. I will grant that it has some significance in the sense that it was the first time that Taker's streak felt like a big deal, and the first MITB match was on the show. But as a top-to-bottom card I just can't see it as a top ten Mania. Not a bad show necessarily, but there are shows in the previous tier - particularly WM 7 - which I think are easily better.

 

28 I think is actually a pretty bad show in a lot of ways. You've got the Bryan 18-second squash, Kane and Orton paired together, a poor video game match between Rock and Cena headlining the show, Punk wasted in a stupid match with Jericho that had a terrible build, and then that awful HITC match. I understand that there are people who enjoy that match, but I've never really understood why. I thought the Mania 27 match was a vastly better match, as it lacked the absolutely abysmal, overacting of Shawn Michaels as ref (which would be universally panned if it was literally any other wrestler in the history of wrestling) and had more believable near falls. To me that was the match that showed Taker had lost his Mania magic. I've used this line before but the match was basically worked as an old gay couple trying to make a tough decision about whether or not to put down their terminally ill dog, which might work for community theatre, but not a big time wrestling event. I thought 28 was weak at the time and I think it looks even worse in the rear view. I'd say it's easily worse than the much maligned 27, it's just that it has a main even that feels and looks like a bigger deal on paper. I could see a strong, strong case for this as a bottom five Mania. Could maybe see a case for it as a middle of the pack show if you are into Shawn and HHH's moral debate on euthanasia. No idea how it gets into a top ten.

 

On 3 I get why you would have it number two, and I enjoy the show as a whole more than a lot of people too, but if we are talking about pure in ring aesthetics I don't know if it even makes the top half. That said I agree that it almost has to make the top tier just based on its significance (both the significance the company places on it, and the actual significance of it relative to the landscape of the time). I think more than any other show it illustrates the challenges of a list like this where you are trying to balance a multitude of factors in making your assessment. If you weigh business, significance, et. heavily it's almost impossible to leave it out of the top five, and a very strong argument could made that it has to be number one. If you weight the "artistic" end heavily it's a middle-of-the-pack show.

 

I agree that 24 and 7 should both be in the top ten.

 

14 feels really high to me too, but I'm not prepared to bury that choice at the moment. 10 is an interesting pick that I think is tough because you have the high highs and then not much else.

 

This might sound strange but I think 23 might be my number one and would be no worse than top three for me. Two legitimately great matches in Michaels/Cena and Taker/Batista, some solid and different stuff on the undercard with MVP/Benoit, a good MITB match and the ECW eight-man tag, and the pageantry of the Trump/McMahon feud playing out in a better than expected match. The show did massive business and the atmosphere for it was great. In some ways I think that show is the Mania they have tried to replicate every year since, with varying degrees of success. In terms of being a "complete" show I think it is better than virtually every other Mania barring perhaps 17 and 19, but those shows ended in big downer moments (The Austin turn, and the Brock botch on the finish).

[funkdoc]

re: WM10, i think there's a bit more to it than just the two famous matches. really nice feel-good moment with bret getting his revenge on yokozuna from the previous year, and i also think savage-crush is quite the fun little midcard brawl. that show would probably make my top 10, fwiw

[Dylan Waco]

I actually forgot about Savage v. Crush which I did like the last time I watched it. I also like the feel good moment of Bret winning, and honestly the Yoko match is not bad.

[benjaminkicks]

My rankings:

 

#10 - Mania 8 (1992) I think on paper this card is not that great, but something about this show makes it very watchable for me. I don't really like a lot from late 80's/early 90's WWF, but this is my favorite of the first 9 Manias for reasons I can't fully pin down. It is a shame that Flair/Savage didn't get to headline though.

 

#9 - Mania 30 (2014) Not the deepest card, but still a very satisfying show

 

#8 - Mania 20 (2004) I remember this show being really long, but looking at the card now there's nothing really bad on it. John Cena's first Mania moment is cool, Christian/Jericho is great, the cruiserweight open and Rock & Foley vs. Evolution are both a lot of fun, Lesnar/Goldberg is shit but the crowd makes it interesting, the return of the Deadman is great spectacle, and the main event is great.

 

#7 - Mania 24 (2008) Really solid stuff throughout. Flair/HBK is a great "Mania moment", Mayweather/Big Show is way better than it had any right to be, and both world title matches are great (especially Taker/Edge).

 

#6 - Mania 26 (2010) I liked the build to this show, and I think it's very solid throughout, besides Bret/Vince (which is terrible). I think I prefer this HBK/Taker match over their Mania 25 match, and Cena/Batista is awesome and really underrated in my eyes.

 

#5 - Mania 10 (1994) I've seen people call this a two match show, and while I think there's valid reasoning behind that, I think the whole card is pretty watchable. Those two matches of course, are Bret/Owen and HBK/Razor, and they're both great, but there's nothing that's really bad here, and the moment of Bret going over Yokozuna is really feelgood stuff.

 

#4 - Mania 23 (2007) Everything here besides Kane/Khali is at least solid. The Money in the Bank is good, the battle of the billionaires is goofy fun, and both world title matches are great.

 

#3 - Mania 21 (2005) I probably rate this one higher than most, but I think it's a great show. Rey/Eddie is a good opener, the first Money in the Bank is probably my favorite Mania spotfest, Taker/Orton is great and an underrated Streak match, I like HBK/Angle, and despite my more smarky qualities as a wrestling fan, I'm a big Batista mark, so seeing him go over Triple H and ending the show celebrating with the belt is great.

 

#2 - Mania 17 (2001) No need to explain this one.

 

#1 - Mania 19 (2003) Aside from the Undertaker handicap match and the women's pillow fight, it's a great show top to bottom. I admit to being a little bias because I attended this live.

[BigBadMick]

I think the argument between 17 and 19 for one and two is really close. Could go with 19 on another day.

[Grimmas]

I think the argument between 17 and 19 for one and two is really close. Could go with 19 on another day.

19 is completely over-rated in my view. Brock-Angle is a good match, but not great. Michaels-Jericho is in the same boat. I like Austin-Rock and McMahon-Hogan a lot and the rest was alright I guess.

 

Off the top of my head I would take 17, 23, 7 and 30 over it easily and maybe some more.

[BigBadMick]

 

I think the argument between 17 and 19 for one and two is really close. Could go with 19 on another day.

19 is completely over-rated in my view. Brock-Angle is a good match, but not great. Michaels-Jericho is in the same boat. I like Austin-Rock and McMahon-Hogan a lot and the rest was alright I guess.

 

Off the top of my head I would take 17, 23, 7 and 30 over it easily and maybe some more.

 

Fair enough Steven but that's to be expected after hearing you trash Angle-Michaels at 21

 

For me, it's the uninterrupted run of 5 (or you could count the tag triple threat and say 6) good-to-great matches, with none of them suffering from time constraints that really make this baby soar.

[BigBadMick]

When big 'Mania matches are rematched to better effect in the following months that can hurt my opinion of the show.

2005 had better rematches of Cena-JBL and HHH-Batista,

2009 had better use of Steamboat, Jericho, Cena, Edge, HHH and Orton at Backlash,

2010 had better Mysterio-Punk and HHH-Sheamus matches,

2012 completely squandered Bryan-Sheamus but it was used effectively in April.

 

It's partly a consequence of having to give part-timers so much time and attention on the big show too. Suppose it makes sense to hold off a better rematch of full-timers for April and May.

[benjaminkicks]

When big 'Mania matches are rematched to better effect in the following months that can hurt my opinion of the show.

 

Same for me, a lot of times, but I think there's something to be said for creating what the WWE calls a "Mania moment". They tell us that Mania is a blockbuster, and all about the big moments, and even though that's partially propaganda from the WWE, I think there's some truth to it, and am willing to rank the Manias who successfully pull off those big moments higher.

 

The Triple H vs. Batista Hell in a Cell match from Vengeance 2005 is almost certainly a better match than their Mania 21 match (it's probably my favorite Cell match), but the Mania 21 match gets points in my book for culminating in an iconic moment. Batista at the end show, celebrating with the Big Gold Belt and getting showered by cheers and confetti is a moment that I will never forget. Moments like that are what WrestleMania was made for.

 

What I mean is, if it makes sense, that I look at WrestleMania kinda differently than pretty much every other wrestling show, because I think sometimes it can get away with lower in ring quality matches if it can naturally create those "big match feel WrestleMania moments" that the WWE loves to go on about. It's the same reason why I view Mania 30 as one of my favorites even though it had several match that weren't really up to snuff, because it made up for it by being totally iconic.

 

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I feel like this was kinda rambling.

[BigBadMick]

 

When big 'Mania matches are rematched to better effect in the following months that can hurt my opinion of the show.

 

Same for me, a lot of times, but I think there's something to be said for creating what the WWE calls a "Mania moment". They tell us that Mania is a blockbuster, and all about the big moments, and even though that's partially propaganda from the WWE, I think there's some truth to it, and am willing to rank the Manias who successfully pull off those big moments higher.

 

The Triple H vs. Batista Hell in a Cell match from Vengeance 2005 is almost certainly a better match than their Mania 21 match (it's probably my favorite Cell match), but the Mania 21 match gets points in my book for culminating in an iconic moment. Batista at the end show, celebrating with the Big Gold Belt and getting showered by cheers and confetti is a moment that I will never forget. Moments like that are what WrestleMania was made for.

 

What I mean is, if it makes sense, that I look at WrestleMania kinda differently than pretty much every other wrestling show, because I think sometimes it can get away with lower in ring quality matches if it can naturally create those "big match feel WrestleMania moments" that the WWE loves to go on about. It's the same reason why I view Mania 30 as one of my favorites even though it had several match that weren't really up to snuff, because it made up for it by being totally iconic.

 

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I feel like this was kinda rambling.

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

And, thinking about it, I probably shouldn't deduct points just because WM isn't always the highlight of a feud. It's impossible to hold that against recent events while also complaining that they don't build to anything outside of a stand alone moment.

[El-P]

Same for me, a lot of times, but I think there's something to be said for creating what the WWE calls a "Mania moment".

 

Like pretty much every part of modern WWE production, I hate the fact "Mania moment" has became pretty much a trademark, so everything at Mania has to become a "Mania Moment"™. Nothing feels organic anymore, and everything is totally self-conscious, to the point of having a self-conscious trademarked name attached to it. The vaunted "Mania Moments"™ became annoying as soon as they became "Mania Moments"™ and not just stuff that you'd remember because it was actually special.

[benjaminkicks]

 

Same for me, a lot of times, but I think there's something to be said for creating what the WWE calls a "Mania moment".

 

Like pretty much every part of modern WWE production, I hate the fact "Mania moment" has became pretty much a trademark, so everything at Mania has to become a "Mania Moment"™. Nothing feels organic anymore, and everything is totally self-conscious, to the point of having a self-conscious trademarked name attached to it. The vaunted "Mania Moments"™ became annoying as soon as they became "Mania Moments"™ and not just stuff that you'd remember because it was actually special.

 

 

I completely agree, and that's why when they inorganically try to create those kinds of moments all the time, it comes across as super shallow. Like when they ran Cena/Rock two years in a row, it was lame. Or how they're trying to push Triple H/Sting this year, when nobody cares at all.

 

But we can hate on the WWE all we want (and I very often do), but when they get those moments right, like with Daniel Bryan last year, it's some of my favorite stuff in wrestling.

[DMJ]

I had to go back and look at the previous post about the Middle 10 to see where my beloved WM22 sat. I still think that is a top 10 Mania and would feel totally comfortable putting it above WM28 and WM14, which I was surprised to see on this list. That one might need a rewatch from me becase I don't recall it too fondly. Were the HHH/Owen, Rock/Shamrock, and Kane/Taker matches better than I remember them? I know HBK/Austin is not a match either guy is particularly fond of (they've both gone on record saying they had much better matches on the house show circuit).

[ohtani's jacket]

Wrestlemania XIV was a critical and commercial success at the time it aired. The matches may not hold up in retrospect, but it was an important turning point for the company. I wonder if its impact has diminished over time.

[goodhelmet]

In 1998, Wrestlemania 14 was exactly what you would have wanted in a show. It doesn't stand up now but at the time, it was fun and quick and exciting. No classics and a Rock promo wouldn't put it in my Top Ten.

 

Wrestlemania 28 has its flaws but we revisited the show last year on the P2B and Jericho-Punk and Rock-Cena held up well. Cena-Rock I was not a video game match. They had the focused back work, a hot crowd and a memorable finish. The match the next year was horrible but 28 stood up on rewatch. HHH-Taker, live felt better than HHH-Taker I but I get the criticisms wit hthe melodrama when watching it on tape. Kane-Ortn feels better o ntape but in the stadium, people were dead and still pissed at the Daniel Bryan moment which feels like a Mania moment for all the wrong reasons.

Last year's Mania felt like one of the best Manias with the fun tag pre-game, the battle royal, the 2 Daniel Bryan matches, the Cena-Bray match that was much better the 2nd time around than live and the streak being broken as a legit holy shit moment.

 

Last time I watched 17, it underwhelmed me but I loved it watching live. I have seen matches from 19 but have not watched the entire show since it happened.

[BigBadMick]

One thing that annoyed me in rewatching Cena/Rock at 28 was that I felt it was at least 5 minutes too long. Rock was having a tough time moving around and I was actually willing it towards a conclusion.

[topropepodcast]

I have to admit, I'm kind of baffled by the 19 love.

 

Maybe it's the fact that I originally turned the show off after HHH/Booker and watched the rest on tape a few days later, but I think the undercard's fairly solid, but for me, the show's really kind of a 2 match show in Angle/Lesnar and Rock/Austin. The Jericho/Michaels match does nothing for me, nor does the middle aged men streetfight.

[JaymeFuture]

Absolutely love the responses here, and am happy to say I was able to read the majority of them on the show, which is now up to listen to at the following link:

 

http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/play/er62xj/SCGRadio33-RankingtheWrestleManias-TheTop10.mp3

This ended up being a really fun podcast, breaking down the different elements of all the shows in the Top 10 and strongly debating the order of the list itself, a great final part to the series. Check it out and, as always, let me know what you think!

[BigBadMick]

Listened to this earlier in the week. The big thing that I took from it was the collective cynicism about the severity of Michaels back injury in 1998. Never really heard that before - is it a widespread belief?

[funkdoc]

at least at the time it most certainly was, given how fresh Losing My Smile was in people's minds.

 

there's actually a similar amount of suspicion toward rick rude's career-ending injury since he was collecting lloyd's of london money and was training for a comeback when he died

[BigBadMick]

Ok, now that you mention it - what about Animal in the mid 90s?