peachchaos Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Honestly I would prefer the useless bars on the side like WWE tragically used to put on their DVDs releases. Something shot in 4:3 needs to be shown in 4:3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 4:3 should be shown in 4:3. The bigger problem for me is the film-like picture quality. I don't care if it's the internet, sports should look like live TV, not a movie. I can only watch for about 5 minutes before getting so frustrated that I have to turn it off. The one time I watched a 30 minute match I got a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 4:3 should be shown in 4:3. The bigger problem for me is the film-like picture quality. I don't care if it's the internet, sports should look like live TV, not a movie. .Well then you're in luck. Pro Wrestling isn't a sport. Christ, all this awesomeness is now available and still some people have to find a reason to bitch about it. Fuckin' hell. Hey, if you don't like the fucking "aspect ratio", don't subscribe. And move on to the next thing you "need" to bitch about. No one is forcing you to pay for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Johnny, I'm wondering why you couldn't follow some of your own advice and "move on to the next thing you "need" to bitch about?" Really, is that type of attitude necessary? Did my post contain even a fraction of your hostility? For the record, while pro wrestling is not a sport, it has always been shot with a sports live look so it should always be expected to be presented with that look. Until it looks like that, I can assure you that there isn't a sports company that will get another one of my dollars for that type of service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The bigger problem for me is the film-like picture quality. I don't care if it's the internet, sports should look like live TV, not a movie. I can only watch for about 5 minutes before getting so frustrated that I have to turn it off. The one time I watched a 30 minute match I got a headache. I don't even know what this means. But for the record this stuff WAS recorded onto film reels which is why it's so expensive to convert and may account for the "film-like" picture quality that seems to be causing you so much pain and suffering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'm 98% sure most of this is from videotape, mostly ringside shoulder mount cameras, not film. Unless the ringside noise is all new foleying and SFX (seems unlikely). Most complaints about "it looks more like film than TV" come from the process of turning standard def NTSC video, with its 60 interlaced half-frames a second, into a progressive format with 30 full frames a second. Even though all the information is there, the perceived temporal motion may be reduced. On the other hand, if it were film, the filmic look would be almost unavoidable anyway, so there you go. HDTV, for what it's worth, is broadcast at 720p/60 or 1080i/60, offering that motion smoothness TV is known for. WWE Network is 720p/30, which is why it has motion blur compared to WWE TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The match selection does look pretty damn good, but the aspect ratio issue is a deal-breaker for me. More below... This topic is another reminder why this is the best wrestling message board. I have a headache after reading the NWA Classics topic over on wrestlingclassics where about 95% of the posts are about aspect ratio & site navigation complaints. I was one of those posters, and I'll happily defend my stance. Bruce Tharpe apparently paid "big money" to have the footage artificially stretched (fake widescreen). To me, that's absolutely bonkers from a business perspective. Not only is he throwing money away for no reason (money he could be using to benefit this service in other better ways), he's also driving away some potential customers (the WC thread is proof of that). I'll put it another way: Would anyone here have objected to these matches being shown in their original aspect ratio? (4:3 - bars on the left and right sides, like older WWE footage.) I really doubt it. Honestly I would prefer the useless bars on the side like WWE tragically used to put on their DVDs releases. Something shot in 4:3 needs to be shown in 4:3. Agreed. Go to any film/DVD/Blu-Ray forum and 99% of the posters there are up in arms if a movie isn't presented in its original aspect ratio. I hate to bring up the "wrestling is art" thing again, but if it's art, don't you want your art preserved and presented the way it was originally? Imagine if someone tried to artificially stretch the Mona Lisa. Why is this any different? If you don't care about the aspect ratio, that's cool and more power to you. But others do care. It is a valid issue. Well then you're in luck. Pro Wrestling isn't a sport.Christ, all this awesomeness is now available and still some people have to find a reason to bitch about it. Fuckin' hell.Hey, if you don't like the fucking "aspect ratio", don't subscribe. And move on to the next thing you "need" to bitch about. No one is forcing you to pay for this. A really infantile post, but you're right, no one is forcing us to pay for this - and I won't. Another thing no one has really brought up: Is this ever going to be able on TV devices? (Roku, AppleTV, PS3/4, etc.) That's more important than you'd think. Yeah, there are workarounds (hooking a computer up to a TV with HDMI, using the built-in browser on a PS3/4 or Xbox, etc.), but that's not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 You don't zoom in on Andre the Giant is all I'm saying. I'm still happy we can watch the matches, though. Don't get me wrong. No one has mentioned it, but the new commentary is serviceable. Although, they could have spent the money on the 16:9 conversion and hired Jim Ross... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I set this up for complaints so the intent of the other thread isn't ruined. It gives an outlet for the complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'll be happier with a roku app, but until then I can easily plug my laptop into my tv, so not too big of a deal. I like the idea of new classics every month, however there is so much competition for my streaming dollar. You have WWE, NJPW, Smash, CZW and NWA Classics. I'm not spending 50 bucks each month, so it's hard. I think Classics will be dropped in August for the G1 and come back in September when that is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 No one has mentioned it, but the new commentary is serviceable. Although, they could have spent the money on the 16:9 conversion and hired Jim Ross... I doubt they spent ANY money on that. Bruce Tharpe himself is one of the announcers. I still wish they had an option for no commentary at all and just crowd noise for the matches that don't have Boesch commentary. I think they are on the right track with the service overall though, they have already started to work on the navigation issues. I don't mind the "1 match a day" upload pace because it's at least a guarantee of steady new content and it makes you more likely to watch everything instead of just going "well why the fuck do I want to watch Pat Rose vs. Mark Ragin when there's still more Terry Funk stuff I haven't seen yet?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The stretch job is pretty clean, without the funhouse mirror effect on the margins, so some people might enjoy it in forced 4:3 on their TV/monitor. I watched the second Flair/Wahoo match in 4:3 alongside the same one from the Mid South set and it wasn't all that different. Motion enhance is not my thing, but I'd use a setting like "Smooth" or "Sports" or whatever if it was. The audio mix is a bit more troublesome. Problems here and there include each commentator in a separate channel, the crowd noise in one or the other, the ring noise in one or the other, no sound at all in one channel, etc. A lot of TVs will auto mix these days, which is good, and if you have an amplifier you can use a mono mixdown setting ("Mono Movie" on my Yamaha) and that should sort out most of them. But you may need to mess with the internal mixer on your PC if you're watching that way. I haven't noticed any issues with stretching at all, even when people have tried to point it on in pictures it's usually barely noticeable and would be maybe 1 second of a match where guys are on the margin of the screen like that anyway. It's wrestling, 99% of the action takes place in the center of the screen because it's the only focus. The audio mix is a pain in my ass though and essentially forces me to use headphones because no matter what I did with my speaker settings I could not get both announcers to be the same volume or make them not drown out the crowd noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Oh yeah, there's nothing you can do about the levels in the mix, just the channels. The very audible clipping when Tharpe shouts is just painful. Those poor meters and their redlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Have they been adding a match each day post launch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Have they been adding a match each day post launch? No. I thought in the announcement of the service that they said the daily uploads would start in August but I think I read on twitter they plan to start daily uploads in mid-July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Have they been adding a match each day post launch? No. I thought in the announcement of the service that they said the daily uploads would start in August but I think I read on twitter they plan to start daily uploads in mid-July. Yes I thought he said next week they'll begin uploading more matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Checklist of ways to make this better: - make matches view-able in both 16:9 and the original 4:3 - have an option for no commentary on matches where there was no original commentary I'd also suggest they upload entire cards at a time and provide some historical context to the events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 PhilTTL is 100% right with his posts on this subject. The only thing to add to this is that the footage was indeed shot on video tape and not on film as someone else suggested. Proof of that can be seen in the matches that have already been released on the VHS Monsters of the Mat series. So, to add to peachchaos' post just above mine: -Offer a version the way it was originally intended in 4:3 with 60 frames per second. I know some people don't notice the motion blur, but to those who do, it's a total dealbreaker. As I said, if I watch 30 minutes of footage in this type of quality, I legitimately get a headache. If ROH can do it on free YouTube videos, every pay service should. If you want to see the difference in video quality, just go to an ROH video with 720p60 as an option. 720p60, something that comes free on YouTube, allows you to watch the content the way it was actually shot without the 2013 standard limitations on uploaded videos and in the same way you see it on cable or satellite TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's mostly on film reels (who was recording onto videotape in 1979??) @rbtharpe Is the Houston library mostly on film reels or on video tape? @KrisPLettuce / original film reels - 1 inch - 2 inch - and 3/4 inch tape! And we are transferring it all to Hi Def for the best view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hmm, fair enough. Though plenty of people were shooting to tape in 1979, or at least mastering to it for distribution. Videotape dates back to the 50s and was practical for small commercial operations like wrestling by the 70s. And he doesn't say how much of it is on film, as the inch formats are all videotape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 People should also realize this isn't a gigantic corporation. They launched now so they could make money. In my interview with Bruce and of course he could be full of it. Money they make will be invested into the service. They're uploading matches as opposed to whole cards because it's quicker to get the content out that way. NWA classics made choices. Are they making perfect decisions no, but at least they're trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 My deal with this is that this is footage that we mostly thought would never see the light of day.....some of it we had already but a large majority we didn't have so I'll be damned if I'm going to bitch about some type of ratio and shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I don't give a shit about aspect ratio. I just watched a whole movie converted from 16:9 to 4:3 in VLC because my monitor is not big enough to lose 33% of the screen to black bars. The audio thing is a pain in my ass though because that forces me to either lose crowd noise or sit at the computer the entire time with my headphones in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 My deal with this is that this is footage that we mostly thought would never see the light of day.....some of it we had already but a large majority we didn't have so I'll be damned if I'm going to bitch about some type of ratio and shit. This is exactly how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The answer concerning whether it was shot on film or video tape came back as 1, 2 and 3/4 inch TAPE. Not film, but tape. Re-read it. It says original film reels that are 1, 2 and 3/4 inch TAPE. If you don't believe me, follow up with them and ask if the original masters were shot on video tape or film. For the record, Tharpe himself later said "we didn't shoot this tape" and again referred to it as "Historical Content of the tape." That post was made around 7:30pm Eastern if anybody wants to see it. As I said, some of this footage was included in the Monsters of the Mat VHS series and if it were shot on film it would have had the film-like look. It doesn't. It looks like a live TV broadcast. There's no reason for it to look like film other than the fact they are allowing themselves to be limited by 2013 technology. Even YouTube now offers 60 frames per second so cost couldn't have been much of an issue, especially considering ROH (also not a gigantic corporation) is uploading some videos in 720p with 60 frames per second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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