G-1 Climax 25 Discussion

[Badlittlekitten]

Despite a couple of minor flubs from Ibushi early on I was really enjoying Shibata/Ibushi until that moment. Killed my interest in the match dead. Dylan's right in that they might as well have gone all the way in breaking the fourth wall and turned to the hardcam together and had a good chuckle over how ridiculous this all is. What's the point in continuing on at that point? Why sell anything? I can just about tolerate the tedious forearm exchanges in Japanese wrestling but this I'm not having. Fuck fighting spirit. You get bombed, you sell. Simple.

[WingedEagle]

I saw a bunch of reviews for Ibushi/Shibata from folks who are generally on the same page as me that hailed it as a legit MOTYC so after watching last night I had to give it another go today. Shibata's stiffness and explosive intensity brought what they usually do, but this was the match where it finally clicked that I just don't dig Shibata the way a lot of NJPW fans do. I was never in camp with the Goto series or Ishii G1 from '13 being MOTY level and felt the same about the Tanahashi matches last year. He forces people to completely abandon any kind of selling that puts an absolute ceiling on my enjoyment of the match.

 

This may read very negatively, but I want to make the point that I liked the match and thought it was pretty good despite its flaws, maybe ***3/4 level in my book, but the need for these back and forth pissing contests doesn't work with someone who can dish it out like Ishii and certainly not here with Ibushi, who's matches with Tanahashi and Styles are my 2 favorites from the G1 so far. I think Ibushi is at his best with punch-drunk selling like the Nakamura Dome match or how they worked both Styles matches this year. Shibata just seems determined to build every match around face-breaking pissing contests. The sleeper / PK finisher also feels anti-climactic after everything else dished out during the match.

[FJBR]

The fighting spirit spot probably wouldn't be as bad to me if Shibata didn't do it in almost every match he has at this point. I still enjoy his matches a lot and think he's great, and I even thought the Ibushi match was four 1/4 or so, but jesus christ I will never understand why decided to take a spot which would be annoying if he did it once or twice for a big moment and made it part and parcel for his matches. There are situations where I can accept it, but seeing as he's doing it all the time no matter the situation any meaning behind the spend is rendered meaningless.

[stomperspc]

Okada and Goto had a very good match. I had convinced myself that they were going to work a 30-minute draw. That probably contributed to my enjoyment since what they actually ended up doing didn't feel as predictable to me as it might have under different circumstances. For two guys who have some issues on offense, most of their stuff was hit crisply. Loved the one near fall reaction they got off of a roll up. They went just about the perfect length.

 

If they weren't going to do a draw, Goto winning makes the most sense as they continue to attempt to raise the status of the IC title. I am not sure what the follow up is though.

[pol]

Goto challenging for Okada's belt at King of Pro Wrestling and losing, most likely.

 

I thought they had a good match, but nothing remarkable. Probably the third best match on the show after Nakamura/Ishii and Honma/Elgin. I think Okada has shown improvement this year (and it's not like he was ever worse than decent), but he still feels like such a robotic performer to me. He rarely communicates any emotion with his body language or facial expressions, regardless of whether he's controlling the match or getting beat up. It really stood out to me after Goto headbutted him in the jaw and they cut to a shot of Okada laying there holding his jaw looking completely uninterested in the whole thing.

 

The rollup near fall stompers mentioned was good, as was the sliding European uppercut that hit a lot better than usual. One area where I do think Okada has improved a lot this year is in mixing up his match structures such that we don't seem to get the typical repetitive 'Okada opening third' any more. And the stretch run built around Rainmaker counters didn't feel as tedious and choregraphed as it has in the past.

 

Goto is so much of a 'just there' type guy that it's hard for me to come up with anything to say about him, positive or negative.

 

Overall this was like the Japanese equivalent of a Sheamus/Orton match - two guys that are both decent to good, always deliver good matches but both feel so dry that it's very difficult to care about anything they do. (I feel like this is selling Sheamus in particular a little short since his problem is more the way he's booked than how he works, but it's the best analogy I can come up with )

[Shining Wiz]

I thought that was the best night of the G1 so far. All the tournament matches were at least good, with three being really good to cap the show off. It's clear the purpose of this tournament is get Naito and Goto into the main event mix....be interesting to see if one of them can win, or if Nakamura is still the odds on choice.

 

I've seen some complaints of staleness, but just as many "Blah.....not THAT guy!" comments floating around. They're trying hard to get at least Goto and Naito moved up, put Ibushi in position for the IWGP title within the next year, and they look finally ready to get behind Shibata more than they have been.

 

Add in Tanak and Komatsu ready to step up, Omega moving into the heavyweights and the eventual break up of AJ and the Bullet Club, and cards should be pretty interesting and 'fresh'.

[pol]

It's true that there are some promising seeds being sown for the future even if this tour overall has been a dissapointment. In the Observer, Dave continued his "80's Crockett" talking point that he's been using for at least a year at this point, saying that a couple years ago was like 1985 and now they're in 1987, with business slowing and the product feeling stale due to a failure to push new guys. I pretty much agree with that perspective and hopefully the NJPW brass see it and are using this tournament to take steps to counteract it.

 

Rush and Sombra coming in should freshen things up a bit depending on how they're used (i.e. so long as they're not buried in meaningless multiman tags). The slow build with Ibushi is going well, and while my aesthetic preference is for them to continue taking their time with it, business demands may require him to be pushed into the title picture sooner rather than later - he's absolutely ready for it anyway. I can see heel Naito as IC champion at some point in the future. It will be interesting to see how Omega's heavyweight push goes if that's the direction they take, since I don't think he's connected with audiences at all as a heel thus far. Goto is someone I just can't see ever working in a drawing position, although there's plenty of other NJPW guys that don't really connect with me and are proven draws so it's entirely possible that he could be another.

[stomperspc]

Goto challenging for Okada's belt at King of Pro Wrestling and losing, most likely.

 

That's possible, but if the goal is to continue raising the stature of the IC title than immediately giving having him lose in a IWGP Heavyweight title match seems counterproductive. In a situation where the IC champion challenges for the IWGP heavyweight title and loses, the IC title clearly comes out looking like a secondary title. Given that they've tried to present them as evenly as possible over the past couple of years, I'd be somewhat surprised if they did that but who knows. If title matches had 30-minute time limits I think an October title match that ends in a draw would be a good idea, but I don't think anyone wants to see those two go 60. Personally, I'd hold off until 2016 on the re-match, possibly after Goto has dropped the title to someone else.

 

I've seen some complaints of staleness, but just as many "Blah.....not THAT guy!" comments floating around. They're trying hard to get at least Goto and Naito moved up, put Ibushi in position for the IWGP title within the next year, and they look finally ready to get behind Shibata more than they have been.

 

Add in Tanak and Komatsu ready to step up, Omega moving into the heavyweights and the eventual break up of AJ and the Bullet Club, and cards should be pretty interesting and 'fresh'.

 

I think the roster is stale but agree that they are trying. They are doing a pretty good job with what they have in trying to build guys up. In the last year alone, Styles has become a top guy, Ibushi is close, they are rebooting Naito as a heel, and Goto is getting a big push with a ton of big wins recently. That compares favorably to any promotion in the world. What I would really like to see is them do is clear out a lot of the older and/or useless guys lower down the card (Tenzan, Yujiro, Makabe, Taguchi, Captain New Japan, Yano, ect.) and replace them with higher upside wrestlers if any such wrestlers are available. They need to turn the roster over a bit to really freshen it up. In terms of elevating guys on the roster they have, I think they are trying and doing an okay job at it.

[pol]

I believe getting rid of guys just isn't done in Japan. Not just a wrestling thing but a business culture at large thing. It's frustrating to have so much dead weight on the roster because guys who should be getting a spotlight like Dorada and Honma are lost in those undercard multimans.

 

Frankly they'd be better off paying a lot of those guys to stay home so they can put more compelling matches on the undercard. Feeling like they're obliged to use guys just because they're paying them when it actively makes their product worse is pure sunk cost fallacy booking.

[shoe]

Kojima vs Takanhashi

 

 

Takahashi's work on top is focused on the back for the most part. Though the work is really pedestrian. Kojima's strikes are so much more dynamic. I lost interest as this went along. I thought Kojima tried to make it interesting. 2*

 

Anderson vs Nagata

 

Liking Nagata going after Anderson's arm. Anderson targeting the midsection. These guys are working a smart bout.I like to see Anderson working the crowd. Some nice little things like Anderson rollling down the knee brace to inflict more damage. This has been a real good Anderson performance. 3 1/4*

 

Honnma vs Elgin

 

I think Honma makes a good opponent for Elgin. This is a super fun match. Both guys meshing their spots together. I've said it before that Elgin isn't a good worker, but a guy with a few good spots. Honma was able to build a match around those spots and get the crowd to care about the match. 3 3/4*

 

Nakamura vs Ishii

 

Glad you're back Nak. Ishii really taking it to Nak. Ishii going after Nak's neck and back. Of course Nak will return the favor. This match was about the strikes and we got it here in spades. 3 1/2*

 

 

Okada vs Goto

 

This was real good and had a real old school title match feel to it. The match was worked well and had layers. Both guys did a good job working the neck to set up each others finishers. 4*

[Bierschwale]

I believe getting rid of guys just isn't done in Japan. Not just a wrestling thing but a business culture at large thing. It's frustrating to have so much dead weight on the roster because guys who should be getting a spotlight like Dorada and Honma are lost in those undercard multimans.

 

Frankly they'd be better off paying a lot of those guys to stay home so they can put more compelling matches on the undercard. Feeling like they're obliged to use guys just because they're paying them when it actively makes their product worse is pure sunk cost fallacy booking.

 

Just send them all over to NOAH.

[hammerva]

With all of the Bullet Club guys working in southern indies and other guys all over the place, how about figuring out a way to get Jay White and David Finley on some outside shows. I understand that they are rookies in the business and the Japan style is to wait and wait but their potential is just so obvious and seeing them in matches where it is obvious they are getting crushed

[shoe]

G1 Night 9

 

Ibushi vs Tenzan

 

I'm liking the early build here. Though Ibushi having to sell for Tenzan's mediocre offense. It gets better after Ibushi crashes on his flip dive. Ibushi is much better selling physical damage than a limb. I feel they could have built to Ibushi's 1st comeback better. Liking Tenzan being smarter than Ibushi. If we are getting strike exchanges they need to make it good. Great nearfall with the standing twisty splash. Overall this was solid stuff. Tenzan seems to have lost a step since last years G1. 2 3/4*

 

Shibata vs Fale

 

 

This seems like a match where it might click if worked right. Shibata goes for an early Figure 4. Loved Fale's early shoulder block. The strike exchange was fun here. Shibata's sleeper was great. Fale timing here. The Razor's Edge into a slepper was tight. Super fun match. 3*

 

AJ Styles vs Gallows

 

Digging the big man vs little man stuff. Gallows fucking up AJ on the guard rails, and then on the inside with the corner posts. Gallow's work on top top has been pretty good. Big knee bump by Gallows and AJ targets the leg immediately. Loved the Calf Slicer out of the corner. The story here was really fantastic. My minor complaint is AJ should have beaten him with a Calf Slicer or something that led to the injured leg. AJ built a match that really played to Gallow's strengths. I think Strong is most outstanding this year, but AJ is still a more versatile worker where you see AJ have so many different, and awesome performances. 3 1/2*

 

Naito vs Makabe

 

I 'm digging Naito working the neck of Makabe. Naito is really looking like a ring general here. I liked seeing Naito fight the power bomb. This has been the best I've seen Makabe in the tourney. Some of Naito's roll ups were super fun. I dug how Makabe finished Naito off. 3 1/2*

 

Tanahashi vs Yano

 

They play off their previous encounters. A solid bout.2 1/2*

[Grimmas]

Finally got to Ibushi-Shibayata and for two guys I generally really enjoy, this did nothing for me. The section people talk about was awful, but up to and after that point I wasn't too into this either. This was your fighting spirit special contest and I am sick of those. I hit you, you hit me back and so on and so forth. Look at how tough I am.

 

There was things I enjoyed, maybe 3 3/4 or something.

[pol]

Finally got to Ibushi-Shibayata and for two guys I generally really enjoy, this did nothing for me. The section people talk about was awful, but up to and after that point I wasn't too into this either. This was your fighting spirit special contest and I am sick of those. I hit you, you hit me back and so on and so forth. Look at how tough I am.

 

There was things I enjoyed, maybe 3 3/4 or something.

 

Totally agree with you. I enjoyed the match, hated the one section, but was surprised to see just how much people liked everything else about it. Intensity and stiffness is always going to have some appeal to me but you can't build a great match on those things alone.

[shoe]

Night 10

 

Elgin vs Takahashi

 

 

Power moves early by Elgin. Elgin's shine is chalked full of power moves. Hall cheats and puts Elgin in the barricade for the heat. Takahashi works him over on the outside. Elgin seems like he's really won over the crowds. Takahashi's work on top is terrible. I'm liking Elgin working like a less charasmatic Cesaro . It's much better than ROH Elgin. I think in ROH he has pull and dictates the match. In Japan I think he's a follower which suits him because he's not a Ring General. I thought Elgin looked really good here. 2 3/4*

 

 

Honma vs Kojima

 

Kojima focusing on the neck of Honma.Honma's comeback was solid. Kojima hits a cutter, then follows up with a top rope cutter and never attempts a cover. Makes no sense to me. This is the match that I checked out on Honma. 2 1/2*

N

 

Ishii vs Nagata

 

We start with some grappling with Nagata going after the arm. Fore arm exchanges. I like Ishii going after the ribs.Nagata going after arm. This was good. Still the match felt one dimensional. 3 1/2*

 

 

Okada vs Anderson

 

Some early one upmanship from each wrestler. A lot of back and forth early with nether man getting control. Finally Anderson delivers a power bomb on the ring apron. Anderson on top. His work was ho hum. Okada sneaks in a DDT and begins a combeback. Anderson cuts him off again. The match is lacking a spark. 2 3/4*

 

Nakamura vs Goto

 

Big strikes by Nak off the bat. Nak selling his injury big. Goto goes after it. Goto's offense has been basic, but is targeting the arm. Goto's offense may be basic. but Nak's selling gets the story over. Nak with some kicks to get seperation. Nak looks to be focusing on the neck and core. Not he seques to the core. Goto has shifted away from the arm and works the neck. Nearfalls down the stretch, Awesome Fujiwara by Nak. 3 3/4*

[Mad Dog]

I just signed up for World so I have some catching up to do.

[shoe]

Night 11

 

Tenzan vs Fale

 

 

We get a batlle of slow to start. Fale using his girth. I like Fale stepping on and working Fale's cut. Fale in control most of the way. He'd give Tenzan some hope spots here and there. Tenazan getting his submission finisher on was good. Fale's big splash was a fine way to end it, Surprised Fale took so much of the match and still went over. 2 1/4*

 

Shibata vs Yano

 

Liking Shibata kicking his ass to start. Great nearfall by Yano. Overall this was fun. 2 1/2*

 

Tanahashi vs Gallows

 

Tanahashi controlling Gallows early with a headlock. Gallows puts Tanahashi outside. He puts him in the guardrails. Similar to the Styles match, Gallows is working the back. Styles was much better in his role than Tanahashi. I liked Tanahashi's dragon screw, but would have liked him establishing the leg work early. The chokeslam would have been great if it was clean. I liked the flash pin aspect of the finish. Still this lacked something from a story telling aspect, and their are so many ways they could have told a compelling story. 2 1/2*

 

Styles vs Makabe

 

Makabe's 1st 2 forearms looked better than any others he's thrown all tourney Makabe taking it to Styles on the floor. Styles is targeting the neck. Styles is the best at mixing his matches up. Styles with an exploder into the corner. Nice reversal of a spinniing DDT by Makabe. Inverted DDT by A J. . This is AJ leading Makabe through a good match. 3 3/4*

 

Ibushi vs Naito

 

Did Naito orange up his hair some more? Brawling in the seats. Ibushi on top, but not for long.Another thing Naito was great at here was his cut offs looked very mean and aggressive. Naito works the back. Ibushi fights back. Big spinning DDT by Naito. I love Naito's submission. The Reverse rana looked nasty. Because Naito works a more deliberate pace, his stuff sticks. The finishing sequence was pretty hot, and stood out because we didn't get a ton of nearfalls early.Ibushi's hope spots and nearfalls were all credible. This was the best Naito's finisher looked. 4*

[Mad Dog]

I got a look at Nagata/Ishii tonight. I liked the match quite a bit. Them just deciding to beat the shit out of each other was a good choice. I think Ishii's at his best when it's just a stiff battle. I liked Nagata's selling of the rib damage throughout the match. I think my favorite part was when Ishii couldn't get Nagata up for a suplex and just said fuck this and kicked him in the head.

[shoe]

Night 11

 

Elgin vs Nagata

 

Elgin growing out the beard has really helped him as a serious ass kicker. We get some battle of positioning. Nagata in control and works the arm. Elgin cuts him off. We get a springboard splash by Elgin. He follows up with his killer delayed suplex. Nagata begins a comeback. Nice nearfall off a Elgin Leaf Blower. Nagata with a pretty sequence. Big nearfall off an Elgin inside out suplex. The match felt a little long. Still was a good one. 3*

 

Honma vs Anderson

 

 

Meltzer mentioned in a recent Observer that Honma's early attempt at the headbutt has turmed into a comedy spot. I agree. Honma is selling early. Anderson's forearm burns are nasty. Honma gets seperation to get caught again. Honma was on top for a bit. 2 3/4*

 

Kojima vs Goto

 

I like Goto's hood.Goto on top focusing on the neck. Tides have turned and now. Kojima on the neck. Big elbow drops. Kind of played out how I was expecting. I was hoping for some fresh ideas. We got quite a bit of forearm exchanges to fill the time. Which Goto's seemed pretty week in comparison to Kojima's Still these guys worked hard and had a good match. 3 1/2*

 

Nakamura vs Takahashi

 

I liked Nak coming to the ring looking for the girl. Sneak attack by Takahasi early. Takahashi going after the arm. Takahashi's work on the arm is solid. Nak with a comeback. It gets cut off by Takahashi going after the bad limb. Nakamura's striking is too much 2 1/2*

 

Okada vs Ishii

 

 

Some working of holds to start. Okada looks to have control. Okada focusing on the neck. Okada besting Ishii on the floor. This is turning into a slug fest. Okada back to the neck. Okada with a nasty looking version of a camel clutch. Ishii delivers a nasty elbow in the corner. An awesome counter to Red Ink. Stiff drop kick by Okada. Great kick out of an Ishii lariat. Big counter of an Ishii Brain Buster into an Okada drop kick to the neck. The German into the Rain Maker was awesome. 4*

[stomperspc]

The Shibata/Tanahashi match from this morning is worth watching. The first ten minutes were excellent if you enjoy matches with measured builds. The first half had more of a Muto/Hashimoto era New Japan feel in terms of the pace setting pro-style mat work. The second half was a bit more inconsistent but still generally good. I think its my favorite match of the tournament thus far and would put it about on the same level (give or take) as the Sakuraba/Shibata match from the beginning of July.

[Mad Dog]

I'm late to the party on these but digging the new heel Naito. I thought his match with Styles was really good. It's amazing how different a worker Styles has become since leaving TNA. He's just awesome.

[Bierschwale]

Looking at the rest of the schedule, Honma has Nakamura, Ishii, and Takahashi. So the logical booking there is L/L/W, right? Honma finally proving that he's better than the Bullet Club b-team by beating Yujiro.

 

So is there a better analogue to that match than the Vanilla Midgets beating Brian Adams and Horace Hogan in the cage match to make the tag title tourney final in '99? Even complete with a diving headbutt to win it.

 

I can't even...

[Tim Cooke]

Tanahashi vs Shibata is the best G-1 match I've seen so far. Still a notch behind Saku vs Shibata but really strong opening and no goofiness that seems to creep into most Shibata matches.

[Mad Dog]

Looking at the rest of the schedule, Honma has Nakamura, Ishii, and Takahashi. So the logical booking there is L/L/W, right? Honma finally proving that he's better than the Bullet Club b-team by beating Yujiro.

 

So is there a better analogue to that match than the Vanilla Midgets beating Brian Adams and Horace Hogan in the cage match to make the tag title tourney final in '99? Even complete with a diving headbutt to win it.

 

I can't even...

I could see him getting an upset over Nakamura and then Nakamura having to go all out against Okada to try and stay in the tournament.