KrisZ Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Kris Zellner and David Bixenspan are joined by Brian Last to discuss the week that was August 4 – August 10, 1995. Listen to us pontificate about the horrificness of WCW pre-Nitro, the craziness of the SMW/USWA feud, the wackiness of 1995 ECW, and the weirdness of Bill Watts coming to work for the WWF!!!! http://placetobenation.com/between-the-sheets-episode-3-august-4-10th-1995/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 The last two episodes were tremendous. I really enjoy the concept. Looking forward to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lust Hogan Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Listening now. Great so far!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Love these so far Kris but any chance of getting time stamps to break this up a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Bix is the one to talk to about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Oh, ok. Bix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 That's probably a good idea. If we do it by promotion then it should be easy to whip up. I'll get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 As someone that got to experience the USWA/SMW feud live, I will say it was incredible and the last, great moment of kayfabe. Sorry, can't throw the Monday Night Wars into kayfabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Y'know, the last thing I need in my life when it comes to my podcast backload is another weekly 3 hour wrestling podcast, but these are just great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I also think it is a better punny Stones-themed name for a pod than Exile on Badstreet is, even though that one is great, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Re: the end of some promotions after Nitro's debut (and as the business heated up in 97)... how long did Memphis keep running Monday Night shows after Nitro started? unless i'm confusing Memphis moving to a flea market with them moving off of Monday Nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Memphis did move eventually but they were running MSC through 1997 with RAW taping every other week Lawler was able to work bi-weekly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Memphis did move eventually but they were running MSC through 1997 with RAW taping every other week Lawler was able to work bi-weekly. Granted Memphis was on its deathbed, but for the life of me, I never understood why they didn't move to Sunday nights. Monday was a staple for so long, but they were dead in the water once Monday night programs started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Memphis did move eventually but they were running MSC through 1997 with RAW taping every other week Lawler was able to work bi-weekly. The final Memphis USWA card was June 17th 1996. Fun piece of trivia is the Rock was on that card as Flex Kavana. If I remember right, once they moved to the Big one, they had shows on Thursday or Wednesday night instead of Monday's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Just starting to sink my teeth into this one, so I've have to hold off on anything in-depth or too detailed for now... But yeah. I'm absolutely loving this new series so far. The concept is great. It kicks the door wide open for a lot of fun & fascinating discussion. Things like that bizarre Clash in '95 and the Korean show just aren't gonna get much talk anywhere else, so it's cool to have 'em batted around here. Plus I'm not a big sheets or rumors guy & never have been, so maybe that helps my enjoyment of this stuff. Like I said, I haven't heard much yet... but I'm already digging some of the random stuff mentioned - the idea of a babyface Vader versus the Giant and the notion of running Orndorff versus Hogan in '95 are two things I honestly never considered. You've gotta believe Bischoff would've run with it though. He was just a huge mark for any & all retread WWF feuds. And I'm kind of with you guys in wishing it would've gone down, at least in some capacity. I mean, maybe I'm in the minority, but I REALLY enjoyed the hell out of the Piper/Hogan feud as a revisited "never-ending grudge" the way it was presented in '96 WCW. Didn't care for the matches, but the angle itself was pretty damn great in its time. Anyway... I've got another hectic work week ahead of me, so I'll be listening to this one in separate sessions & probably chiming in with more comments here and there. But it's awesome listening so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Memphis did move eventually but they were running MSC through 1997 with RAW taping every other week Lawler was able to work bi-weekly. and Lawler only started doing RAW in April 1995, and I forget when Raw switched from taping 4 weeks at a time to 2 weeks. I think the TV market specifics of 1995/96/97 cable ratings is lost to time. But i'd be interested to see how Nitro did in Memphis compared to RAW. Heck, it'd be interesting to see which TV/cable markets stuck to the WWF during the 52 week Nitro streak. Imagine all the social media-based analysis that could be done if the WWF and WCW battled in 2015. On checking Memphis 95/96 results, seems like they dropped from low-4 digits to high 3-digit totals around the debut of Nitro. But then again, the Memphis MSC attendance chart is probably a bar graph of sadness for most of the 90s. Not sure if there's any notable blips for Mondays involving a Lawler RAW match or whatever. Also, gonna note one flaw about the idea of moving Memphis/USWA weekly shows to Sunday night: Memphis had a CFL team on Sundays in 1995 and the Tennessee Oilers in 1997. Neither drew massive numbers (and to this day, the Tennessee Titans aren't the most popular team in Memphis), but if your base is 1000, some of them might prefer to attend a football game in Memphis instead of a USWA card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Since Brian was talking about attending the USWA/SMW Sunday show in Louisville, thought Id back him on it. We would go to the Gardens every week, sit ringside. And hes correctthe fans that went to the Gardens still believed. And the crowd was wild that night. He was probably there when this happened, but myself and a buddy went out toy hunting (yeah, we are nerds) and were on our way to a Target just outside of Louisville. We decided to stop at a Thorntons Gas Station near there since they had a Subway inside. We were standing in line and who is in front of us? Mark Curtis. We tapped him and said, Hey are you Mark Curtis? He looked at us kind of weird and said, I am. We thanked him for putting on a fantastic show tonight, that we attended the Gardens each week and had a blast tonight. He said thanks, talked with us a few minutes, etc. (DLo was in line behind us) Years later, I got to talk with Tim Dalton and Rob Moore since all of us are fans of Filsinger Games Legends of Wrestling. Both were there that night and were at the Subway with Curtis. They said the group thought we were going to jump Curtis, but just relieved we were just wrestling fans. I loved that night. The last great night of kayfabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I was on the Fanweek trip too so I may have more thoughts when I get to that point in the show. I distinctly remember that USWA show was the same night as the Clash of Champions because there was one moron on the trip that chose to stay at the hotel & watch the Clash instead of going with us to Louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKWildcat Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I was on the Fanweek trip too so I may have more thoughts when I get to that point in the show. I distinctly remember that USWA show was the same night as the Clash of Champions because there was one moron on the trip that chose to stay at the hotel & watch the Clash instead of going with us to Louisville. He had to be kicking himself. That's one of my five favorite nights in wrestling history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Still slowly making my way through this one and thoroughly enjoying it. Just a ton of interesting stuff to hear tossed around. It's great to hear some praise for Al Snow's earlier work. I remember a time when he was being talked about a lot in the mags as the "best kept secret" in wrestling for awhile there. Never knew about all the New Japan ties to the "radicalz" initial contracts with WCW. I definitely agree that they probably went the best route in the long run by hitting WCW first. I just can't see them getting featured as much in the WWF as they did with WCW's cruiserweight division, numerous titles, and three-hour Nitros. Kroffat & Furnas in WCW could've been VERY cool to see, too. Matches with the Steiners, the Faces of Fear, the Roadies, Sting/Luger, and others would have been a tremendous upgrade from what we got with their Fed run, I think. Great stuff so far, guys. Still only about halfway through, but this one's already a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Getting through this today. I'm up to the ECW talk. Interesting comparing 95 and 96. I agree with the consensus that they peaked in summer 96 (that is the consensus, right?), but I have awfully fun memories of the 95 stuff. Seemed like a lot of coming and going, and everyone seemed to be used effectively. Really enjoyed that year. Jannetty, Snow, Sabu, Taz, Malenko, Benoit, Guerrero, Funk, Cactus, Austin, Raven, Sandman, Scorpio, Steiners, Whipwresck, Public Enemy, Douglas, Gangstas - Hell of a cast of characters there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Al Snow was like my favorite wrestler for a time there in 1995. He kind of came to everyone's attention in the newsletter community in 1994 with those Sabu matches as mentioned. His SMW run was incredible and I remember some of the Fanweek attendees from outside the area just being blown away at some of the stuff they hadn't seen. I particularly remember the Magee Bros. popping over first seeing the stuff of Snow making fun of RnR. Also the heel promos of the SMW guys on the Louisville USWA shows as I was getting that stuff regularly at that time. Also interesting to hear a different perspective on Onita. The consensus among those I travelled to Japan with in the early 2000s still viewed Onita as this iconic, charismatic celebrity type who could do no wrong. It was like hero worship. Sure everyone knew about the Gonzalez angle & all the sleazy stuff but it seemed to be almost like part of his charm & appeal, like "oh it's just Onita being Onita". The way you presented him on this show really makes him come across like a carny con man, which maybe is the more proper way to view him. It just struck me when I heard this as the polar opposite of how I'd always heard people talk about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 He was the worst in the 2000's as he was constantly trying to get his name in the press challenging anyone and everyone who was working on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I had heard about the Onita/Invader angle, but the stuff Bix was saying about Onita blading his own stomach was all new to me (along with the rumour that he was doing it to set up a match in Japan so that the Yakuza could kill him!). Another home run of a show and this show more than anything has persuaded me that it's about time I dig into my 1995 Smokey Mountain set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Agreed. I've got Smoky Mountain from start to finish, and this - more than anything else - has me itching to dive back into it all. Those early days of Cornette teasing the debut of his new tag team, the DWB pushing around Mr. Wright, etc. await. Finally made my way through the rest of the show. Really got a kick out of Brian's stories from Fan Week. Kris, have you heard Jerry Jarrett's shoot interview with RF? It's got at least some in-depth discussion about the way the Memphis territory was divided up, shared with Lawler, pushed & pulled politically, etc. over its long history. He talks about his stuff through the Vince trial and all that a bit, too. I mean, yeah. It's not directed or guided very well - like most RF shoots - but it's effective enough in some aspects.The thing with Jerry is that it just seems that he's not all that interested in opening up and talking about the sort of stuff fans really want to hear about. He just doesn't come across as that guy. He can tell you about some stuff, some angles, some characters, some ideas... but he can just as quickly get sidetracked into a story about his wife, his kids, or his construction business very quickly. And so you never really get the sense that he places any more priority on the wrestling talk over any other kind of conversation or story - even in the midst of a pro wrestling shoot interview. So there's that. And it's likely a leading reason for why he's never fully committed to any kind of "tell all" wrestling book also. Releasing your journal is one thing. But sitting down, recalling a lifetime of memories - some good, some bad, and putting them out there is a whole other beast. Oh. And holy shit. Ricky Morton as a member of Raven's Flock? I've honestly never heard that. Could've been fucking aces - at least in the entertainment department. I have no doubt that it would result in numerous poor life decisions on Ricky's part, just being in that locker room setting at that time & place. But Christ. The sheer angle itself, with Morton being this former heartthrob & fallen teen idol with no place left to turn, sounds phenomenal. He'd be living out this pro wrestling mid-life crisis, which in turn would play up the effect of Raven's machinations. Could've been great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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