pol Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 What's particularly odd is that they're hyper self-aware but seem utterly unaware of the impact of their self-awareness on viewers. Welcome to most "nerd" media post-Scream. A little self awareness is fine but going overboard with it is just an excuse for shit writing/booking/performing/etc. I think the real problem is that wrestling has never truly come to terms with how to deal with narrative consistency and the suspension of disbelief in the post-kayfabe era. The guys running the show are hardly connoisseurs of fiction, after all. The conceit that everything was real was what kept them in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I don't have a problem with it in the context of the Bayley-Sasha program. Hard to explain but it just feels like the right move emotionally and the crowd loves it. I would not want to see it after a big Zayn-Owens grudge match. And they didn't, Owens murdered Zayn and then kept murdering him until a group of guys dragged him away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The problem is also not the curtain call in and of itself. It's the combination of the curtain call and all of the backstage stuff they now reveal. The ground is shaky underfoot because of what they're doing. Don't stomp around on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 The problem is also not the curtain call in and of itself. It's the combination of the curtain call and all of the backstage stuff they now reveal. The ground is shaky underfoot because of what they're doing. Don't stomp around on it. I don't really know how shaky the ground is though. This board is full of people who absolutely love wrestling, and we all know how the sausage is made. I don't know if any of the curtain call/backstage stuff actually hurts the product. Does anyone here really like wrestling less, because we know that these people don't really hate each other? We know these people are characters, and we like it any way. We already separate what is real and what is kayfabe, it isn't like the breaking of kayfabe is opening a door into a world we didn't know exists. We spend all day posting about that world, and I'd argue that we are probably bigger fans because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes, but we're some pretty strange cats to be the target audience, although if they're going to do it, a York Foundation nostalgia act would be nice, please and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes, but we're some pretty strange cats to be the target audience. I don't know if they're making us the target audience, or that the audience is more like us than we give it credit for. My point is if the people who love wrestling the most don't mind it, why would the people who love it less care at all? The people most invested in wrestling aren't turned off by the fact that we know it's just show business. NXT is the product for their most hardcore fans. You have to have the network to watch it, and it is a developmental territory. I honestly think that the curtain call/backstage stuff is what makes NXT special. We are in on the joke. It is the only WWE product that doesn't talk down to the audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes, but we're some pretty strange cats to be the target audience, although if they're going to do it, a York Foundation nostalgia act would be nice, please and thank you. Alexa Bliss can be the CEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I honestly think that the curtain call/backstage stuff is what makes NXT special. We are in on the joke. It is the only WWE product that doesn't talk down to the audience. I'm not sure that's what makes it special. My impression--and I'm not a weekly watcher so not the best qualified person to assess this--is that a lot of people like it because it's a straightforward wrestling show. I don't see the curtain call as a big deal one way or another. But what's special is that NXT bothered to build female stars and booked them into logical feuds with well-executed payoffs. Throw in too much Steph and Trips and that back-to-basics efficiency feels a little imperiled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I honestly think that the curtain call/backstage stuff is what makes NXT special. We are in on the joke. It is the only WWE product that doesn't talk down to the audience. I'm not sure that's what makes it special. My impression--and I'm not a weekly watcher so not the best qualified person to assess this--is that a lot of people like it because it's a straightforward wrestling show. I don't see the curtain call as a big deal one way or another. But what's special is that NXT bothered to build female stars and booked them into logical feuds with well-executed payoffs. Throw in too much Steph and Trips and that back-to-basics efficiency feels a little imperiled. The straightforward wrestling show part is a huge part of the appeal of it, but it isn't what makes these Takeover shows special. These Takeover shows are pure fan service. The only reason NXT has grown to the heights it has is because their hardcore fans latched on to NXT on Hulu. Those fans aren't the typical Raw/Smackdown fans. The people who pushed this thing to the current level are the type of people who would appreciate a peek behind the curtain. They are wrestling fans who decided to watch a developmental territory to the point that there was enough demand to actually put on these Takeover shows. I paid for Hulu for over a year to be able to watch NXT every week. I would have been fine if there was never a Takeover, I was going to pay to watch their television any way. NXT's core audience understands what kayfabe is, and understands its place in wrestling. We know that this is a stepping stone territory, that is why we started watching it to begin with. The goal of NXT is to do well and move on. The breaking kayfabe/backstage stuff is an acknowledgement that those characters have reached the pinnacle and are ready to move forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Again though, wasn't the real fan service that they paid off their weekly storylines with good, dramatic blowoffs on the Takeover specials? WWE so often fucks up that basic set-up/payoff formula with the main roster. Against that backdrop, fans find NXT refreshing. Again, I'm not opposed to little "graduation" moments like the one you're praising. But if we were to wishcast traits from NXT onto the company as a whole, I'd point to NXT's basic ability to build and pay off feuds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Again though, wasn't the real fan service that they paid off their weekly storylines with good, dramatic blowoffs on the Takeover specials? WWE so often fucks up that basic set-up/payoff formula with the main roster. Against that backdrop, fans find NXT refreshing. Again, I'm not opposed to little "graduation" moments like the one you're praising. But if we were to wishcast traits from NXT onto the company as a whole, I'd point to NXT's basic ability to build and pay off feuds. I see what you're saying, except I don't think paying off storylines should be considered fan service. That is kind of what every wrestling promotion should do. That is like saying my beloved Cleveland Browns provided fan service, by actually scoring a touchdown. They are supposed to score touchdowns, that is kind of the point. That doesn't really make them special. Raw/Smackdown not paying off their angles is a huge issue, but I'm not going to give NXT extra credit, because they actually do what they're supposed to do. The difference between Raw/Smackdown and NXT is that they have different goals. The narrative that goes along with the journey into and out of NXT is what makes it special, Raw/Smackdown's failures do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 See, I think Raw/Smackdown's failures do in fact add to NXT's specialness for a lot of people (though it's cool you like it so much on its own terms). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Also, I need to get away from this thread because I'm sort of mesmerized by that gif of Sasha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Another thing that I like which NXT does, that they used to do on the main shows (but don't seem to do anymore) is how for big shows, NXT will do new, different things to make them feel special. Like Demon Bàlor or Tyler Breeze's special entrances. We need more of that stuff, to differentiate the shows, ya know? Things like that make a big impact on me, personally, so I'm sure others feel the same when watching big shows. Like, one of the best parts of Wrestlemania for me each year was seeing the new, different Undertaker entrance or what the stage/set-up looked like. It's a big part of the spectacle for me. Wrestlemania 28? 29? Whichever one it was, where Bray Wyatt came out with his band playing his theme wearing plague doctor masks, that was so awesome. I've liked him pretty much ever since, even if he's floundered around the midcard in pretty meaningless feuds & matches. His entrance is still so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes, but we're some pretty strange cats to be the target audience, although if they're going to do it, a York Foundation nostalgia act would be nice, please and thank you. Alexa Bliss can be the CEO. I never knew how much I wanted a York Foundation nostalgia act to happen until right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 With advanced stats in sports becoming mainstream it would actually be relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 With advanced stats in sports becoming mainstream it would actually be relevant. I'm surprised WWE hasn't tried to latch onto the popularity of Fantasy play more. They could even throw some people a bone by putting them on shows they might not other have been on just to shake up the points. Like throwing Zack Ryder on RAW & giving him an upset win or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 That is the problem. Fantasy works in sports because it boils down simply to people betting on players being good performers week in and week out. But nobody ever thinks that Bill Belichick is saying to himself, "I gotta get Rob Gronkowski a TD here to get his fantasy owners some points". WWE Fantasy could work if they revamp the whole system so it isn't the same few wrestlers that everyone trusts to get good points that week. And no, giving Ryder an upset win to shake things up doesn't do anything any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Yes, but we're some pretty strange cats to be the target audience, although if they're going to do it, a York Foundation nostalgia act would be nice, please and thank you. Alexa Bliss can be the CEO. I never knew how much I wanted a York Foundation nostalgia act to happen until right now. I was thinking that Lana would have been perfect. It would also be a nice way to repackage Alexander Rusev, Jacob Swagger and Marcus Henry as strategist superathletes out to destroy Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 And if you need somebody that sucks as the Wallstreet of the team, well, Nicholas Theodore actually is Dolph Ziggler's real name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 WWE is so self-aware that the charity work doesn't come off as sincere https://twitter.com/stephmcmahon/status/581881800659591168 Kayfabe has been broken to a ridicilous degree these days. I know i'm coming across as fuckin' JR here, but Sasha Banks in particular has been humanised too much by her podcast appearances. All the "smart" fans won't boo her now, they know her story, how she struggled to get here, it makes it very difficult to find her dislikeable. Case in point being the fact she went for mega-heat in that Bayley match, picking on a 10 year old girl. Did the fans turn on her for the rest of the match? Nope. Still want to cheer the bad guys, do the Full Sail Folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 WWE is so self-aware that the charity work doesn't come off as sincere https://twitter.com/stephmcmahon/status/581881800659591168 That quote with the Susan G. Kamen logo on the back makes for a nice little side effect indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 If they were gonna do this one, they shouldn't have done the one after the title change match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Wow, Stephanie can't even keep corporate kayfabe! Keller's responses are perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 The present and past of marketing is to lie and try to get away with it. Stephanie and others in her position see the future of marketing differently. Still lie, but you can now own up to it later and nobody cares because corporations are expected to be deceitful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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