Guest savagerulz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Civility and heat can co-exist. Look at Rock and HHH. Bret and Shawn, as you mentioned. Hogan and Savage. Vince has a long history of driving a wedge between his top stars, supposedly because he thinks it makes the promos better. Again, that was before. Rock - Triple H? C'mon now. There is a clear difference between "people who don't like each other" and "why Vince perpetuates an environment where the wrestlers don't get along". On the contrary, when people do get along, they are more apt to do a better job, and do the jpb for one another. WCW loved working "the boys." The WWF learned during the Monday Night War that the crew getting along kept morale up. The WWF has a hard enough time keeping morale up now (look at the people who have left for evidence of that) without worrying about fostering discontent for...what was it you said? Promos? Have their been a host of people who have left who have said, "Vince wants us to fight each other in the back, and the WWF wants us to hate each other." If so, I am wrong and I apologize. If not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I'm highly annoyed at the way they jobbed Regal and Burchall. They could really have something with that team if they actually tried to push them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Have their been a host of people who have left who have said, "Vince wants us to fight each other in the back, and the WWF wants us to hate each other." If so, I am wrong and I apologize. If not... Bret Hart has said it. Hulk Hogan has said it. Shawn Michaels has even said it (albeit a long time ago). It's not exactly a secret that Vince has been known to pit his top stars against each other. That has nothing to do with "locker room morale". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You are citing three wrestlers known both the world and the IWC over as being completely full of shit. Maybe if you had a quote from the Rock I would be more inclined to agree. Hell, Piper has more credibility then those three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You are citing three wrestlers known both the world and the IWC over as being completely full of shit. Maybe if you had a quote from the Rock I would be more inclined to agree. Hell, Piper has more credibility then those three.I have a signed letter from The Rock detailing these matters in fact, but I don't have a scanner. Jeez, man, what more do you want? There's also the point that Hogan and Bret, and Hogan and Shawn, have had heat. And if you honestly think Piper has more credibility than Bret, I'm just going to laugh at you. And if you honestly think Rock is going to say anything public at all about wrestling at this point, keep waiting. This is not anything new. This is something Dave Meltzer has been talking about for years and years and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crucifixio Jones Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Well he finally did it, after years of watching RAW and SD through all the crap, Vince lost me. I'm tapping out. I don't plan to watch this week, and perhaps further if they keep up with this suicide/Boogeyman kind of bullshit. It's simply amazing to me, after reading all of that, how sad the wrestling business has become in and outside of the ring. There are few things in this world that I'm actually ashamed to say I was a fan of or associated with but wrestling has FINALLY reached that point. I can't find one redeeming thing to say about it anymore. I knew one day their self-serving and childish antics would grate on me more than usual, but I figured, at least the shows would be entertaining, at least my favorites would still be motivated and ALIVE to put on great matches. Those days are long gone. I wish I never got "smartened" up. The only thing it EVER did for me, since day one and I see that now, was absolutely ruin my enjoyment of wrestling. I'm officially done.YES~! We'll have so much time to spend together now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I honestly don't think Piper has more credibility than Hart, I was just using an extreme case to make a point. Though to be fair, Piper actually believes some of the really crazy things he said. If you listen real close to Piper ramble you can almost find where his rants come from, and they usually start out a nugget of truth before being twisted, exagerated and completely mutiliated by his drug-induced mental problems. Unlike Warrior where it's impossible to tell just where the hell he gets his rants from. Since '97 Hart has done everything in his power to demonize McMahon until recently when he needed a paycheck to collect. Hogan has been full of shit, lies and bare truths since the eighties and Micheals has been the same way since the 90's. Just about anything that comes out of their mouth is immediately suspect. You know what, fuck all that. I have an easier time believing Piper when he claimed Vince Russo killed Owen then I do with Hart and him saying Vince pitted wrestlers against one another. Hart has had a vendetta against McMahon for years. I'm wrong about a lot of things a lot of the time. But I am positive that Hart/Micheals wasn't orcherstrated by McMahon. Hart and Micheals just didn't like each other, but they both could work with each other. Their major heat didn't come until after Montreal and Bret was all ready out of the company. Montreal had very little to do with Hart and HBK and everything to do with Hart and McMahon. I can guarantee you that in '96 this conversation never happened: McMahon - "Hey there Bret, how are you?" Bret - "Not too bad Vince." McMahon - "Just wanted to let you know, Shawn says he has pictures with you sticking your dick in Sunny's mouth. And that he'll send it to your fatass wife." Bret - "That son of a bitch! That's all right. You tell him I have pictures Mabel sticking his dick in Shawn's mouth." McMahon - "You really have those?" Bret - "Yup" McMahon - "Can I borrow them?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EastCoastJ Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Hulk Hogan and Bret Hart are two other guys that Vince McMahon apparently attempted to divide a wedge between while playing good cop to both sides. The story that is almost universally believed these days is that Hulk Hogan changed his mind and refused to drop the title to Bret Hart in 1993. Bret Hart has said on more than one occassion like ten years after it happened that Vince McMahon got cold feet about putting the title on Bret and convinced Hogan that he shouldn't drop the title to a small midcarder like Hart, and basically talked Hogan out of doing the job. Meanwhile, McMahon was telling Bret behind closed doors that Hogan wouldn't do it and acting shocked and outraged. Of course, with Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon, you never quite know what is fact or fiction but that seemed to be another example of McMahon trying to create tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crucifixio Jones Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Vince has a long history of driving a wedge between his top stars, supposedly because he thinks it makes the promos better. I'd almost be down for that if it actually worked. But considering it hasn't...and I mean, not in the LEAST, maybe it's time to rethink strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Of course, with Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan and Vince McMahon, you never quite know what is fact or fiction but that seemed to be another example of McMahon trying to create tension. In Bret's defense he has remained consistent of what has happened in nearly every interview on nearly every single subject. Lumping him w/ Nogan and McMahon is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Bret has been consistant in virtually everything. The whole, "I'll never work for Vince McMahon or WWE again." thing didn't turn out to be completely true, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Bret has been consistant in virtually everything. The whole, "I'll never work for Vince McMahon or WWE again." thing didn't turn out to be completely true, though. And in fairness to Bret, he almost had the equivalent of a gun to his head. Bret wanted to be remembered on a legacy that appeals to him and if he didn't agree to work with the WWE on a DVD, he knew full well that, publically at least, he was going to be presented in the worst way possible. No way Bret wanted to be lumped in the same category as Warrior. He still isn't hung up about accepting a HOF induction, so aside from being backed in a corner as far as the DVD project goes, he's remained true to his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I saw the Benoit-Booker and Juvi-Kash matches. Benoit-Booker was a slight bit better than their 2nd match, but nothing to write home about. A good match, but dime-a-dozen for some promotions. The reports of Juvi-Kash must be greatly exagerrated because of how the crowd reacted or something. It was really just kind of an average match, but it certainly didn't deserve to get shitted on. They pretty much did the best they could given the time and creativity restrictions they have to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Benoit vs Booker was a lot of fun with the most believable near fall I have seen in a long, long, long, long time but it still wasn't on the level of match #2 of the series. That was a classic. I got shivers and I think I might've even been a little bit teary eyed when Benoit kicked out of the axe kick (Booker brawling, Sharmell lowblowing Benoit and Booker winning with the axe kick was exactly how Booker won the US title) so they must've been doing something right. Benoit is still in the game baby! It's not over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Any word on the final buy rates and ticket sales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 re: Tim White Fear not those of you who are worried about the apparent demise of Tim White. He is scheduled to be back! As Mike and I talked about on our Elite hotline on Tuesday, WWE plans to do a continuing storyline with White, so we are scheduled to find out that he is, in all actuality, not dead in the storyline. They plan to do something to further the angle on an upcoming show. As I mentioned on the hotline, Vince was heard telling people at the PPV that the White angle was "dark humor". Now, how he finds anything remotely funny in the topic of suicide, especially at the holidays when so many people are depressed, is beyond me. Source: PWInsider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts