Loss Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 It wasn't so much the repetition of spots as it was that they used the exact same counters every time and there were so many moments the match went nowhere. I think Flair took a hiptoss followed by a dropkick at least three separate times, got slammed off the top turnbuckle at least twice, etc. I think the best part of the match was the way they milked the sunset flip. I think that's Flair's greatest credit as a worker -- he took a move as simple as Sting attempting a sunset flip and got great heat struggling to keep his balance, a heel nearfall holding the ropes for leverage, the ref got over for catching him and kicking his hands away and Sting got a VERY close two-count to finally close out the sequence. Awesome stuff. So a totally elementary wrestling move manages to get two hot false finishes, get the match over by showing the ref as a total enforcer and get Sting over by sticking to his game plan when Flair tries to sneak one by him. Very cool. Also, from Sting missing the Stinger splash in the last 5-10 minutes of the match to the very end, it was really awesome and heated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 It makes me sad to hear Jim Ross on those old tapes. He's really fallen apart as an announcer. I liked the little mistakes Sting made here and there that kept Flair in the match. Going for the Stinger Splash too soon in the match. Letting go of the headlock he was having great success with to go for an elbow drop. Even the 5 seconds he'd waste here and there in the last 5 minutes that ultimately cost him the match. I liked the Fantastics/Midnights match better overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 23, 2005 Report Share Posted December 23, 2005 Me too. Also liked Luger/Windham v Arn/Tully better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 I watched Sting-Flair because of this thread and tried to apply what you guys were talking about but I could not get engaged in that match at all. Maybe it is my total apathy towards both guys but after coming off the 2 tag matches, I had to fight to keep from pressing the fast forward button. I am currently planning a Best of Clash of the Champions set and I will probably have no problem leaving that match off of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I just read The Death Of WCW in one sitting. My God. It's heartbreaking to see that mistakes are repeated so many times in wrestling, especially when modern-day WWE is doing so many of the same things WCW did at their worst. Dave Meltzer said it best in the foreword when he said that far more people have copied WCW's less successful ideas since they died than they've attempted to copy any of their successful ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 Luger/Windham v Arn/Tully should get more love. It tends to get it a lot from people who have seen it, but it often surprises me how few people have seen it. GH, I know you've seen lots of Flair against Nikita/Luger/Sting/Dusty matches. Watching this match live was great, and watching it now, I still do like some aspects of it, but there have been so many Flair matches exactly like this that it does sort of lose its charm, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I just read The Death Of WCW in one sitting. My God. It's heartbreaking to see that mistakes are repeated so many times in wrestling, especially when modern-day WWE is doing so many of the same things WCW did at their worst. Dave Meltzer said it best in the foreword when he said that far more people have copied WCW's less successful ideas since they died than they've attempted to copy any of their successful ideas. Maybe you should start a thread that correlates what WWE is doing now with specific examples listed in the book on the death of WCW. I found an old notebook of mine that has all of teke's shoots printed out and was reading through them the last few days. He gives so many examples of the Fed screwing up and making decisions and he wrote those in 2003! Maybe you can bring us up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 GH, I know you've seen lots of Flair against Nikita/Luger/Sting/Dusty matches. Watching this match live was great, and watching it now, I still do like some aspects of it, but there have been so many Flair matches exactly like this that it does sort of lose its charm, no doubt. You know, while going through and cataloguing the NWA TV, I have become an unabashed Nikita Koloff mark. I actually enjoy the Flair-Nikita matches, not for what Flair is doing, but because I actually enjoy watching Nikita wrestle. Add to the fact that i have just watched his shoot interview and how dedicated he was to kayfabe, I enjoy the hell out of his interviews, his squashes, his matches and angles. I'll admit, I don't really look for Nikita matches post 1987 but he is one of my current favorites. The point is that I think if I watch a Flair match with a guy I like (Reed, Kerry VE, Nikita, Magnum) then I am more interested in the match because of what the other guy brings to the table than what Flair is doing... even if the match itself falls under the Flair formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 I've always been a Nikita mark. I've talked about it in the past I'm sure. He was just so damn intense. He'd be cutting a promo, acting like a normal guy, dressed well, "I'm glad to be back in WCW." Three minutes later, his shirt would be ripped off, Luger would be laying beside him bloodied and he'd be screaming into the camera that Luger had his US title and then stick his tongue out and flex. It's like he'd just snap. It was great. He was a psychopath. I'm really interested to hear his shoot interview. I didn't know it existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 26, 2005 Report Share Posted December 26, 2005 There are 2 Nikita shoots I know of The RF one and a Nikita-Magnum TA shoot where they discuss their feud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Alright, this was a post made at another message forum. I can't even...come up with words to describe how ignorant it is. Anyway, just read it for yourselves. These are the types of people that I randomly get into arguments with. This is in regards to Samoa Joe: If it weren't for the hype surrounding him, I'd be fine with him, or at least only mildly disliking him. The reason I've gone from hating him to hating him more, though, is the unbeaten streak and the goldberg push he's gotten. I don't think ANYONE should EVER get that push. It's even worse for me when the guy doesn't even look like a monster. Goldberg at least was huge and jacked. Vader at least was massive. Joe is chubby and slightly larger than a cruiser, thus his push is nonsensical and I hate it. As far as his wrestling goes, I'm not really a fan of that style of wrestling. I will tell you, in total 100% honesty, that I think Jeff Jarrett is a better wrestler than anyone in the X-Division. For me, wrestling is about characters. And Joe's character is stupid. I'm a tough bad ass who doesn't even feel it when Roderick Strong kicks me, but I'm 5'10" and chubby instead of 6'5" and jacked. Look at the logo Joe uses for his merch. Thats what he should look like if he's going to get the push he's gotten. That's not to say a guy with some extra pounds can't be in the business and be usefull. A C physique doesn't disqualify you from wrestling, or even from the main event. It just disqualifies you from a 6 month unbeaten streak when you debut. So, to answer your points in summary, I don't like anyone who is booked as a monster, but if they are, they shouldn't have the "unique" look that Joe has. And his "actually wrestling" is the type of wrestling I don't care for. So, there's not a logical reason for me to like Joe at all, given my feelings on the matter. Now, add to that the hype, and you get why I get so pissed off about him. Imagine if all your friends were eating horse shit for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and raving about it. You might even try it and still say "this is horse shit, I don't like eating it." Then, when you go out to eat, everyone is excited that horse shit is on the menu and they go to a restaurant that has more to offer than any other restaurant in the world, but they get excited about horse shit and wont stop talking about how great horse shit is. And you sit there nibbling on the gourmet food everyone else calls boring, wondering what the fuck is going on. That's Joe to me. Seriously, what the fuck do you even say to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 The reason I've gone from hating him to hating him more, though, is the unbeaten streak and the goldberg push he's gotten. I don't think ANYONE should EVER get that push.*laugh* He makes it sound like Joe is squashing everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 So I guess this guy hates old school wrestling considering new guys would go for years sometimes without losing a match in a new territory. EDIT: Regarding Joe. I was thinking the other day that TNA should just import a New Japan junior for every PPV and have Joe just demolish them. That way you don't have to constantly build up a new guy only for Joe to tear him apart and you can easily get a 6-8 month reign out of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 That post shows no understanding of wrestling at all. None. Seriously, if no one gets pushed and everyone is portrayed as being on the same level, we get 2001-2005 WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Actually it shows that current WWE is being accepted as proper wrestling booking and what used to be considered good booking is looked at as strange. If Joe's push upsets that guy, he would have really been pissed at Nikita's push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Okay, TNA spent all that time hyping up their midnight special, only for it to end with a fucking Shannon Moore run-in? Dumbasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 A thought I had the other day about Lex Luger: Regarding his recent legal troubles, does anyone else think Luger saw all that coming a mile away and thus "prepared" for it by sucking up to everyone in that shoot interview he did recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest savagerulz Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 LAW: Sonny Siaki has signed a deal with the WWE. Didn't Dusty train him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 My Impact on DVD project is going really well so far. The DVR makes it extremely easy to get rid of the commercials. It looks great on DVD though I wait until I see it on the big screen before totally judging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Well, when judging it, do not sit within 2 feet of the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Heh, I'm so nearsighted that I could sit that close to the tv without my glasses and still not be able to figure out what any of the blobs on the tv are. I messed up on the first Impact unfortunately. The DVR was getting ready to record something and a little flashing clock appears at the bottom of the screen for like a minute of Abyss squashing Sabin. Not a big deal though, I'll just have to make sure I'm not recording when the DVR is close to recording something. If this goes well I might do a best of 2006 comp at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 A best of 2006 for TNA or all promotions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Just a best of Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Noah Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Quick note: The Styles/Joe match at Turning Point was EXTREMELY over-rated... If I wanna watch MMA, I'd turn on the fucking' UFC or watch Japanese work... I fucking loathe Joe, just can't fuckin stand him... I'm not sayin this was a bad match by any means... This time though, Styles carried it IMO... He actually pulled off most the wrestling moves, instead of stiff bullshit kicks to the head, etc. That shit aint wrestling in my mind... Fuck Joe, fuck him right in the pucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 I guess it's time to add Joe to the list of people who are hated in proportion to how successful TNA gets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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