Jingus Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Kid Kash has some nasty chops. I've seen him leave handprints on guy's chests on countless occasions. Historically speaking, Gypsy Joe is infamous for being a tremendous chopper. And he didn't just rapid-fire them like a lot of guys, he'd make you sell each individual one separately. He was also one of those guys who (like Flair reportedly also does) had both a work chop and a shoot chop, and he'd vary them depending on if he liked you or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I don't really like chop wrestlers, never have. I make exceptions for Indians like Wahoo. Big Show's is great though, because he does like two and it destroys everyone. Much prefer European uppercuts, punches and kicks. Big Show is the first guy I thought of. He really makes his mean something...he incapacitates his opponent in the corner, shushes the crowd, moves any garment of clothing that could soften the blow, then clobbers them with a hand that's nearly as big as his opponents entire chest. Like getting hit with a snow shovel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Ron Fuller has an amazing chopper apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Brian Pillman is one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Was going to bring him up, his always looked and sounded great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I've always loved Tomohiro Ishii's death chop to the throat. Kobashi would be an obvious favorite. Seth Rollins would have to be in the running for worst chop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenjo Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 It would have to be Kobashi. In the latter years of his career when his athleticism had greatly diminished he still had entertaining bouts that basically revolved around chops. Fast, slow, spinning, hard, harder, different swings. He turned the chop into an art form. My favourite chop battles were in the Flair vs Steamboat series. They added a stiffness and intensity to what were already technically excellent wrestling matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Tenryu for sure. I've talked shit about Steamboat's offense in the psst but I love the way he would utilize his chops and pace them to fit the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InYourCase Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Roddy and Eddie Edwards have disgusting chops. Live, they're insane. Roddy gets off on it. Ishii's throat chops are behind Kobashi's machine gun chops as my favorite. I give the edge to Kobashi because he built compelling matches around chops, but Ishii targeting the throat is fantastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Isn't the throat chop a Kawada thing originally? Ishii and Kawada seem to share a lot of offense, maybe a result of both being Tenryu guys, but I don't know if I've seen Tenryu ever do it. Someone who follows the in-ring more than me can say if WWE matches were better when Flair was in TNA and they gave the edict to everyone except Yoshi Tatsu to stop doing them. Modern Japanese promotions would benefit massively from applying this to elbows. While they're at it, ban guys from starting matches with the "push the guy into the ropes, clean break" spot or trading arm wringers. Maybe this is a thing only I notice, but holy shit like 95% of matches start with one of those two sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Isn't the throat chop a Kawada thing originally? Ishii and Kawada seem to share a lot of offense, maybe a result of both being Tenryu guys, but I don't know if I've seen Tenryu ever do it. Literally go watch a random Tenryu interpromotional match mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I don't think some of the Japanese guys had the same level of psychology in their chopping as Flair did. I find Tenryu a more one-dimensional chopper, so he'd be below in the chopping ranks. That said, Tenryu vs. Flair from 92 is a very good chopfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Love how this thread has turned into ranking "chopping workers" as just another way to circle jerk about Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I believe Terry Funk was the inspiration for both Flair and Steamboat's chopping style, so that has to count for something as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I believe Terry Funk was the inspiration for both Flair and Steamboat's chopping style, so that has to count for something as well. With Flair it has GOT to be Wahoo hasn't it? Hasn't he said it is Wahoo a lot of times? He was around when Wahoo vs. Johnny Valentine was going on. And he tagged with Greg late 70s. Flair and Greg are actually really similar workers in some ways. Someone was talking about that recently on one of the show. Was an astute point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Love how this thread has turned into ranking "chopping workers" as just another way to circle jerk about Flair. It's a thread about chopping and it was made by me. What do you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Isn't the throat chop a Kawada thing originally? Ishii and Kawada seem to share a lot of offense, maybe a result of both being Tenryu guys, but I don't know if I've seen Tenryu ever do it. Literally go watch a random Tenryu interpromotional match mate. Haven't seen any post-80s Tenryu yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Haven't seen any post-80s Tenryu yet pol I swear... Fine. I'll try to build a narrative as well. Kobashi managed to build entire 20+ minute matches around his chops when he was broken down. His chopping act was so perfected you could put him in there against anyone, a junior, an outclassed heavyweight or a rival in a GHC Heavyweight Title match and it would work. The weapon he once used to fight back against evil foreigners and those who outranked him grew with him and transformed into a means of keeping his challengers down. As he grew not only did the strenth of the chop but so did the amount of variations and ways he could use them. He could engage in epic battles like he did against Sasaki or use them as punishment (the Kesagiri variations especially helped here, as the image of Kobashi chopping down someone's neck remains entrenched in one's mind). He even managed to build a signature fanservice spot around them with him chopping his opponent a million times in the corner. Not only did his reliance on a single move not have a negative effect on his perception. he was almost solely relied on to be NOAH's top draw and did that to both great business and acclaim (his smarkshoice #5 rating was just after it). His retirement match was one of the most fascinating and emotional experiences I've ever had watching wrestling (but don't believe me-the camera zooms in on a crying kid during a Kobashi FIP section so you see it nice and clear) and 90% of it was just chops. I'd like to see Flair get as much out of a single move as Kobashi did but unfortunately post-prime Flair is categorized by people who voted him in their top ten (or in Loss' case, #1) discussing whether he was mentally ill or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 The reason Flair could get more nuances out of his chops than Kobashi is because his character was more multi-faceted than Kobashi's and so there were different and deeper registers to go to. Being mostly a heel helps there. It is a shame GWE has coloured things to the extent where basic appreciation of a master at his craft has to be tinged with certain overtones. I look forward to the day we can just talk about wrestling again without them. I'm not sure if there is another move in wrestling as multilayered as Flair's chop, in terms of how many different things it can do in the course of a match. I'd have to think. Misawa's elbow might have more depth but probably less range or versatility. Kobashi is #2 chopper in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Should have also stated Kobashi essentially squashing Omori by chopping him a bunch in a 8 minute match is one of the most surreal things I have ever seen. That he could project so much violence through such a strike is almost perplexing. That match felt like a horror movie. Tenryu is another great chopper who deserves a write up. I love how he would trap someone in the corner and just onload on them with the greatest strike combination in wrestling history but he was also amazing at firing back when someone would trap him in a corner. He'd just come out of nowhere with this huge onslaught and it could both continue into a big comeback or get humongous heat after a quick cut-off. There are also instances-whether it be against shooters or someone he really hates from New Japan-that he'd chop someone in the throat. But he wouldn't just throw it out there, he'd build the match and right as the sheer angst and hate reached its climax throw them as the ultimate insult. And yeah he could use them as a fiery babyface as well but whatever. Also has such a great sense of timing that he could build matches very good matches around them when he was 60 and could barely walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I believe Terry Funk was the inspiration for both Flair and Steamboat's chopping style, so that has to count for something as well. With Flair it has GOT to be Wahoo hasn't it? Hasn't he said it is Wahoo a lot of times? He was around when Wahoo vs. Johnny Valentine was going on. And he tagged with Greg late 70s. Flair and Greg are actually really similar workers in some ways. Someone was talking about that recently on one of the show. Was an astute point. He's said that Wahoo was the inspiration. He's also said that the style of setting up the opponent with both arms hooked around the top ropes thereby fully exposing the chest was influenced by Terry Funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Yeah Wahoo was definitely a major influence as well. I think the holding the top rope while chopping the guy is a Funk thing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR Ackermann Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 From Flair's book: "The knife-edged chops that have become such a big part of my routine were largely inspired by Wahoo and Terry Funk." "As much as there's a lot of Wahoo in those chops, someone else deserves credit, too: Terry Funk. When he was the NWA World Champion, I watched him wrestle Paul Jones in Raleigh one night. Jones grabbed Terry's arm, and Terry started backhand-chopping the guy. A short time later, I began doing the same thing in my matches. I also copied Terry's habit of holding on to the ropes with one hand and chopping his opponent with the other." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 In a completely different direction, I always loved the Great Khali throwing the Chop of Doom at people's heads. Totally, irrationally loved it. Every single time. If he came out on Raw today and started Chop o' Dooming folk I'd be so happy. ...yes, that is my contribution to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Regardless of order, would agree Kobashi, Tenryu and Flair are the top 3 choppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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