Current Lucha Talk

[NintendoLogic]

It's been a pretty quiet year in lucha for obvious reasons, but Triplemania is next weekend and features the debut of AAA's Marvel-themed luchadores with Leyenda Americana (Captain America) and Aracno (Spider-Man) going up against Terror Purpura (Thanos) and Venenoide (Venom). This is a legitimate promotional deal with Marvel, which is huge for any pro wrestling company.

[Rah]

I'm guessing this is why I saw people speculating Batista would be in AAA, then. Of course that won't happen but, like you said, this is a big deal.

[El-P]

Working Mexico doesn't seem like the brightest idea considering how bad they are doing. Would really suck for AEW if Omega would get sick or even test positive because of this.

Also, if there's one promotion where the idea of empty arena match don't appeal to me at all, it has to be AAA. I can't even picture the usually terrible matches that only go by because of crowd heat being watchable in this context.

I would be only half surprised if Daga & Tessa Blanchard would show up.

Isn't this on the same day of the Super J Cup, the NJPW tournaments finals and that IMPACT monthly special ? Damn, that 12/12 is stacked with stuff.

[joeg]

10 hours ago, El-P said:

Isn't this on the same day of the Super J Cup, the NJPW tournaments finals and that IMPACT monthly special ? Damn, that 12/12 is stacked with stuff.

It is!!!! I'm going to glued to my sofa all day. Between those 3 shows, the Anthony Joshua fight, the Shakur Stevenson fight, the UFC fight, OSU vs Michigan, hell of a day for sports/fight/wrestling fans....

 

Is there any chance of Chessman winning? 

[El-P]

I also realized that this date will pretty much mark my 30th anniversary of becoming a pro-wrestling fan, as I began taping my first shows (WWF TV, french version, Saturday at 5pm on Canal +) more or less two weeks before the Christmas holidays in 1990. Wow. What have I done with my life ?! 

[Matt D]

5 hours ago, El-P said:

I also realized that this date will pretty much mark my 30th anniversary of becoming a pro-wrestling fan, as I began taping my first shows (WWF TV, french version, Saturday at 5pm on Canal +) more or less two weeks before the Christmas holidays in 1990. Wow. What have I done with my life ?! 

Not far off from me. I think it was the Main Event in October 90 before Survivor Series. But I had gaps of a few years here and there at least!

[joeg]

How do I watch IWRG tonight? Its the 58th Anniversary of the Moreno family promoting and they are running Dr Wagner Jr vs Mascara Ano 2000 Jr Hair vs Hair on top. 

[Tim Evans]

I believe it's on Mas Lucha's premium service. Some of the matches will probably be on their youtube in a couple of weeks.

[Mad Dog]

The Kenny Omega vs. Laredo Kid match was really good once it got rolling. I really wish there was a crowd there for what they were going for. 

There were just some straight up negligent spots in the main event. Those table spots from the top were fucked up and Chessman is lucky he didn't get paralyzed on that second one.

[Tim Evans]

I really enjoyed omega/Laredo and I think the lack of crowd helped it. Kenny really went all out and Laredo was made a star. The best thing on thr whole show was announcing that kenny vs vikingo is next. That should happen in aew.

The rest of the show wasnt good. I thought nxt was the most hurt out of all promotions by no crowd but in reality it's AAA. The womens match was a dreadful mess and the main event was sad although entertaining in a way.

[sek69]

I thought it was interesting that the Marvel gimmicks were played by Lio Rush, Brian Cage, Daga, and Taurus. 

AAA is the one promotion in the world that needs crowds the most, but I thought the show was as good as it could be given the circumstances. The women's match was a mess, but considering the Copa Triplemania is usually a full out Royal Rumble style match with men/women/minis/exoticos I get the feeling that this was a "plans changed" deal and they just said fuck it and did whatever the could. 

Also we can add "saving Monster Clown's life" to LA Park's list of accomplishments by doing what he could to get under him on that ill advised dive. 

[joeg]

So I thought everything was everything was at least ok with the exception of the women's match which was dreadful. Tag titles was fun, the 6 man was fun, hopefully Blue Demon Jr vs LA Park goes somewhere. The Marvel match was good for what it was. The Omega vs Loredo Kid match was pretty good. And the main event was not bad for what it was. Other than the women's match there was nothing offensively bad but at the same time there was nothing must see great either. 

[NintendoLogic]

Quite a few dominoes have fallen today. First, CMLL announced that the Nueva Generacion Dinamita have left the company and the titles they held (trios held by NGD and middleweight held by Cuatrero) have been vacated.

Soberano Jr., who still works for CMLL but hasn't wrestled for them since getting hurt in May, accused Ultimo Guerrero of killing the company.

Dragon Lee said he'd see Soberano soon in ROH while Rush congratulated the Dinamitas on leaving and said CMLL did nothing for the wrestlers who caught COVID.

It should be noted that Cuatrero is/was dating Sofia Alonso while Forastero married Ultimo Guerrero's daughter, so I can only imagine what things are like behind the scenes.

As you can see above, longtime lucha observer RobViper has been saying for a while now that CMLL was in the middle of a UWA-esque death spiral. The company's economics are such that it's almost literally impossible for them to go out of business, but this isn't a good look for them at all.

[sek69]

It should always  be remembered that the Alvarado family (La Mascara and Maximo)  got fired from CMLL for trashing Ultimo Gurterro's car because they felt he stole leadership of the wrestler's union from the family. While that was certainly not the best way to handled the situation, it's a sign that Gurrerro's been the source of a lot of issues within CMLL. 

[NintendoLogic]

12 hours ago, sek69 said:

It should always  be remembered that the Alvarado family (La Mascara and Maximo)  got fired from CMLL for trashing Ultimo Gurterro's car because they felt he stole leadership of the wrestler's union from the family. While that was certainly not the best way to handled the situation, it's a sign that Gurrerro's been the source of a lot of issues within CMLL. 

It seems to me that UG was completely in the right in that case. There's no justification for leadership of a union, even a toothless company union, belonging to a family by birthright.

[sek69]

6 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

It seems to me that UG was completely in the right in that case. There's no justification for leadership of a union, even a toothless company union, belonging to a family by birthright.

The impression I got was there was an agreement in place who would get the role and UG politicked his way into getting it. Basically the Lutteroths are the lucha McMahons ans UG is their HHH. 

[Rah]

NGD released a video thanking CMLL and explaining the departure as that they want to wrestle new places. If we read between the lines, they're saying they want more but are keeping their options open for a CMLL return at a later date. We all know how petty CMLL can be.

 

[sek69]

I wonder if we might be seeing the end of CMLL in the not too distant future. Yes, the company is basically incapable of losing money but the only person in the family who gave a shit about wrestling was Paco. As weird as he was with his grudges, he at least had the desire to do *something* with the company. The rest of the family makes their money in real estate and to them CMLL is just that weird thing their dad/grandpa started up 80 something years ago. Sofia had interest too, but the family wasn't having that and ran her off. I wonder if at some point the family is just going to be done with this crazy wrestling stuff and get rid of it. They clearly don't seem to want to deal with anyone either asking for well deserved star treatment like Rush and family, or just clearly top guys like NGD who just want to anything of meaning to do  in their careers.

[joeg]

These past couple of years I've wondered what the sale price for CMLL would be. What would they need for all of the rights, the trade marks and the property owned? 

[Rah]

I'm a member of a relatively popular lucha Facebook group and between the incessant "lucha was better in my day" posts a lot of people are speculating the beginning of the end for CMLL. Before this, it was mostly questioning the booking direction or swearing off their shows but now most members are wondering if the past while is a foreshadowing of the promotion's death. 

It's no secret that the Lutteroth family have a hatred toward wrestling, with most of them seeing it as an embarrassment. The only one I'd guess left that has any fondness for the sport is Sofia - she seems really passionate about lucha, especially if you look at her Instagram. She is (was?) in a good position as commercial director but she's really young, though, so (a) I'm not sure if her ideas would align with the more 'traditional' principles of CMLL (the women's tournament might be an example here) and (b) if anyone would even give a shit about her ideas full stop.

It would be a blow to the employed wrestlers, and the end of a historic era, but the promotion folding doesn't seem like it would lead to any long-term consequences. The scene seemed to be pretty hot before the pandemic so I don't see why it won't continue that way.

[Reel]

My understanding was that CMLL was pretty much being run to sell tickets to tourists, and because there's a healthy appetite for that and they own the arenas, pre-pandemic it was basically just a license to print money and the wrestling really didn't matter, probably less than wrestling has mattered at any point in WWE history. I don't think it's a dying promotion, but it is an increasingly less relevant one. 

[sek69]

8 hours ago, Reel said:

My understanding was that CMLL was pretty much being run to sell tickets to tourists, and because there's a healthy appetite for that and they own the arenas, pre-pandemic it was basically just a license to print money and the wrestling really didn't matter, probably less than wrestling has mattered at any point in WWE history. I don't think it's a dying promotion, but it is an increasingly less relevant one. 

Pretty much, the issue is there apparently no one in the family left who has the patience/appetite to deal with the business side of wrestling. They're fine with having a side hustle that's guaranteed to make them money that they can just stick in a closet and pretend doesn't exist, but when i comes to dealing with things like booking or placating stars, there's no interest there. 

[joeg]

Anybody see the proposed card for the anniversary show? 5 title matches where the challengers are determined by fan vote. Wrestlers eligible for the fan vote include big names such as El Coyote, Hombre Bala Jr., Enfermero Jr, El Audaz, Panterita del Ring, Los Gemelo Diablos, Fugaz & Esfinge, Stigma & Pegasso, Magia Blanca & Halcon Suriano Jr. I think we at PWO should organize a coordinated effort to assure a El Coyote vs Hombre Bala Jr main event.

[NintendoLogic]

The latest Observer mentions that other than CMLL lifers like Atlantis and UG, the only thing keeping their top stars around is the New Japan connection, which both pays well and gives them greater international exposure. But with the roster increasingly depleted, New Japan might decide it's not worth being unable to use guys like Pentagon and Fenix because CMLL would veto it. If the New Japan/CMLL relationship weakens, more of the top guys will go independent and try to get more bookings in the US. The issue also reveals that WWE was in talks to buy CMLL a few years back. It doesn't give an asking price, but it says the deal fell apart when CMLL wanted the arenas they owned to be part of the deal and WWE didn't want to own so many older arenas. The truth is, those buildings are by far CMLL's most valuable asset. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they'd be nearly worthless without them, like WCW without a TV deal.

[sek69]

So cubsfan was mentioning that NGD was leaving CMLL on their own, the company got wind of it, and put out their announcement tweet saying it was a mutual decision. I suppose "we agreed our most talented trio should leave" is a slightly better look than "anyone not politically connected to the family is fleeing the company".