Tim Cooke Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 El Hijo del Santo/Atlantis vs. Fuerza Guerrera/El Rubio Lobo (1984) Meant to talk about this a few weeks ago but never got around to it so this is just a few brief thoughts. 1. This is an exceptional match, especially for 1984. The first fall is 13 minutes of technico offense with variations of headscissors, arm drags, etc. The ending of the match in the third fall is spectacular. 2. Fuerza, Santo, and Atlantis were WAY ahead of their time, maybe more so than their All Japan Women counterparts (minus the suplexes) in terms of innovation and creativity that looks incredible today. 3. Need so much more Lucha in the 80's. Villanos/Brazos Hair vs. Hair match has finally been found and is a great match, but is so hard to watch. But I would rather have a hard time watching something than not have it at all. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 3. Need so much more Lucha in the 80's. Villanos/Brazos Hair vs. Hair match has finally been found and is a great match, but is so hard to watch. But I would rather have a hard time watching something than not have it at all. Tim I am so jealous right now. Tim, are you going to nominate some of these matches for the deathvalley best of competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Yea, and it will be on the Lucha discs when that time comes. 70% of the match is perfectly clear. 30% does the weirdest thing when the screen becomeds 2 screens then 12, then 19 different boxes on one screen. Very weird. Match itself is strong. First two falls are technical lucha work with the third being a bloody brawl leading to hot nearfalls and the finish. I know it is 1988 and I think we were able to get October out of the announcing as the month. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Famous Mortimer Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Oh yeah, I just realised I have it on this here DVD: DVD Villanos vs. Brazos 1. MS-1/Tierra, Viento y Fuego vs. Sat?nico/Atlantis (double mask vs. hair) 2. Cien Caras vs. Rayo de Jalisco Jr. 3. Atlantis vs. Kung Fu 4. Brazos vs. Villanos (1988, TV, complete but bad VQ) 5. Volador vs. Misterioso 6. Volador vs. Misterioso, mask vs. mask, and other matches with them teaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Wild Pegasus vs. Black Tiger (6/11/96) Huge improvement over their 1995. Huge. The guys really did a nifty bit of story telling here. As they were battling for control, Tiger kept getting the best of Pegasus when the match picked up pace. So Benoit simply started using a sleeper, and went back to it anytime Tiger was able to pickup the pace. It actually got to a point where the crowd would boo Pegasus when he slapped on the sleeper, and start a loud "Tiger" chant, making Tiger the babyface for the match. Pegasus finally followed up one of his sleepers with a quick powerbomb, so Tiger never even had a chance to quicken the pace. And after this, Tiger had noticeably slowed down, and the match started to wind down. Both men hit their big moves, Pegasus' dragon suplex, and Tiger's B.T. Bomb, but both moves were somewhat isolated so they didn't get the pin. Finishing sequence was awesome. Tiger went for the avalanche-style brainbuster, only for Benoit to reverse it into a tombstone position. Tiger managed to get out of it and ended up on the apron, so he ended up going up again and hitting a avalanche-style huracanrana for a nearfall instead. Then Tiger ends up hitting the avalanche brainbuster for the 3 count. Just a really smart and well executed finish. Only complaint is that the early portions of the match could have played into the finish a bit more. They did a good job of turning Tiger babyface, for his eventual win, but I would have liked the sleeper to play a part in the finishing sequence somehow. Still, this was a great match. ****1/2 This match kind of made me a bit sad, since it was so much better than either guy has done for years, and it really shows how much of their potential has been wasted by the promotion they were working for. That both men still managed to be very-good workers is a testament to how good they were before their creativity and physical game was completely dismembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Is it just me or is everyone's classics version of this match missing the Benoit attempted headbut and the backbodydrop of Benoit over the top rope by Eddie Guerrero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm pretty sure they were in my version. I know I saw the headbutt, and I saw someone get back-bodydropped over the top-rope to the ramp, just don't remember who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Just finished watching Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio from this week's SD! and you guys have to explain the Mark Henry love to me because that was a ** TV match tops. People used to comment how HBK would get good matches out of big guys by bouncing around the ring for them while they just lumbered around and that is exactly what I thought of this week's match. Hopefully, last week's match was much better becasue I am not feeling the love at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 I haven't seen this week's match, so I can't comment on it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (Triple Crown - 1/19/95) This is Kawada's one successful Triple Crown defense after he defeated Steve Williams on 10/22/94 at the Budokan. People who love the first two Joe/Punk matches should watch this one. I saw Joe/Punk I & II last weekend, and watched this match this weekend. The first two Joe/Punk matches are praised as classic matches, and they are excellent no doubt...but this match is another example of a very well paced "broadway" match, where the two participants slowly build to a 60 minute draw, and it doesn't become obvious until the last 8 minutes or so that there probably won't be a winner. You can tell by about 55 minutes in, when both guys have hit all of their big moves, and Kobashi starts to crawl around the ring on all fours that they are kinda killing time...but still in all there are a great series of near falls in the last 15 minutes. A lot of people crap on this match because there isn't "a finish" or clear winner...especially because Kawada ended up losing the TC to Stan Hansen at the Bodokan that March so this is the only match where he retained. You can debate that Kawada should have ended up beating Misawa in 94, or that he deserved a better reign or whatever...but looking at this match on it's own you can't deny that it is a very good if not great performance, especially by Kawada. The no selling is at a minimum, and some of the near falls are great, as I said. You won't get any argument from me when you say that Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi on 06/12/98 for the Triple Crown is the best match these two guys ever had...however for those that think that Joe/Punk are the GREATEST MATCHES EVAR~!!! or that Flair had some great 60 minute matches with Steamboat or even his one in St. Louis with Brody...watch this match. I wouldn't say this is a "forgotten" classic...but it's funny that Kawada/Kobashi/Misawa etc. had SO many great matches, that people tend to think of the top 5, and forget that they had some lesser know matches like this one, which still blow away anything that happened in North America for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheShawshankRudotion Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm on a bit of a Hogan binge after watching Hogan vs. Abby which wasn't a great match or anything, but I was amazed at how over Hogan was with the Japanese crowd in 81. They were chanting "Ho-gan" throughout and was generally hot for the guy. Hogan was able to go from dominating, to being the big underdog, to dominating, and then to even with Abby in about 10 minutes all of which was convincing. He actually managed to make the bearhug a high spot in the match early-on by lifting Abby up periodically and wooing the crowd. On Youtube I was watching Hogan vs. Bret from an episode of Nitro, which was going along really well until Wolfpac Sting came out. Hogan got off way too much offense and barely let Bret get anything in before Sting came out for the save, but the two had some good chemistry and I wouldn't mind seeing a full match between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Buddy Roberts & Terry Gordy vs. Eddie Gilbert & Dick Murdoch (UWF TV 1987) ---- THis was shaping up to be a pretty good tag match as Gilbert and Murdoch find 100 different ways to abuse Bddy Roberts arm. However, about the 7 minute mark, Murdoch and Gilbert double team Gordy and as the ref tries to separate them, Murdoch decks the referee for the DQ. Terry Gordy vs. Black Bart (Taped Fist match) (UWF TV 1987) ---- This was an enjoyable brawl where Bart bleeds like a stuck pig. We are talking Cactus Jack King of the Death Match juice here. The two combatants don't do much except punch the shit out of each other but I think that is what appeals to the minimalist in me. The ending is more Watts screwiness as Bart is being couunted down but Devastation Inc. jumps the ring and attacks Gordy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Just finished watching Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio from this week's SD! and you guys have to explain the Mark Henry love to me because that was a ** TV match tops. People used to comment how HBK would get good matches out of big guys by bouncing around the ring for them while they just lumbered around and that is exactly what I thought of this week's match. Hopefully, last week's match was much better becasue I am not feeling the love at all. For me, it was all about the finish. I liked the finish a lot. It was innovative and put over Henry's strength well. That along with the fact that I thought Mysterio had a chance to win (because I really wasn't expecting Henry/Angle for the title at the Rumble) and the fact that it was on TV, not a PPV, made it more than watchable. It didn't disappoint is the best way to put it. Most TV matches nowadays are so lackluster that anything average seems better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 I agree with you. WIth the 2nd HEnry-Rey match, I had no real problems with it. IT was enjoyable, it was fun... but there wasn''t that much substance to it and it wasn't a "great" match... just an enjoyable match that you wouldn't turn the TV off when it comes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Terry Gordy vs. Black Bart (Taped Fist match) (UWF TV 1987) ---- This was an enjoyable brawl where Bart bleeds like a stuck pig. We are talking Cactus Jack King of the Death Match juice here. The two combatants don't do much except punch the shit out of each other but I think that is what appeals to the minimalist in me. The ending is more Watts screwiness as Bart is being couunted down but Devastation Inc. jumps the ring and attacks Gordy. If I'm not mistaken, the amount of blood here caused the UWF to lose some of its syndication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 I wouldnt doubt it at all except that Crockett already owned it at this point so I don't know how much longer they planned to keep it around anyway. Just finished watching Matt Hardy vs. Edge cage match from Unforgiven. That was about as good of a match I have seen from WWE all year from someone not named Eddie or Rey. Seriously, I enjoyed it more than both Michaels-Angle matches. Both guys were laying in the strikes and kept one-upping each other in the "How can I fuck you up" dept. This will def. get added to the MOTYC discs. I'll probably watch it again and do a more in-depth analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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