goodhelmet Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 I didn't get that vibe at all. I got the vibe that when he was referring to the action in the ring, or talking about winning titles, that he was discussing them in the framework of what the people were supposed to see without saying this is the trick and this is the illusion. Hell, he kepes reminding us how he took the brunt of the bumps and did most of the work. Doesn't sound like he is trying to get them over as real so much as he is getting them over as painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 - Flair's book - Both of Foley's books - Sex, Lies And Headlocks And a friend once got me one of SK's books and tore the receipt up as a sick joke. Thankfully, it was Christmastime, and his book was handy...as a firestarter for those cold winter days up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Tributes Tributes II -If you do not have a subscription to the Observer then the tributes books are a must. The unfortunate part is that Tributes II reposts several of the same wrestlers. However, it makes up for it by including an interview DVD w/ Meltzer where he talks about each wrestler. Have A Nice Day Foley's 2nd Book - I still pick up Have a Nice Day for reference material occasionally. I haven't picked up the 2nd book since I read it. Until DK's book, Foley's first book is far and away the best bio out there. the Rock Says - Complete trash. What the hell were they thinking? Ric Flair: To Be the Man - THis feels like the Cliffs notes version of the Ric Flair story. Unnecessary and inaccurate bashing of Bret and shameless kiss-assing of HHH & HBK take this one down several notches for me. Sex, Lies and Headlocks - Very entertaining read but to be honest, I have no idea what is fact and what is fiction since I know little about the sources where the author got his info. Pure Dynamite - About 2/3 of the way through and it totally immerses you into a wrestler's lifestyle. By far, the best wrestling bio I have read. Where else can you get extensie discussion about Stampede, Tiger Mask, Baba, the WWF and Portland all in the same book? Also, the way DK describes his matches, it makes me want to seek them out and find out for myself what the hell he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 The part about S, L & H that bothered me was that they had exact quotes that Vince and Linda said to each other in private. If it was supposed to be a greatly exaggerated, grandiose tale of Vince McMahon, that's one thing, but it was pushed as a historical look at his rise to power. Flair's bashing of Bret and mindless praise of HHH and HBK is annoying, yes, but no more annoying than Mick Foley spending eons in his second book defending WWE against the PTC. Flair's timeline was also very messed up, especially when he bashed Foley, not realizing that Foley was attacking him for *two separate* booking runs in 1989-1990 and 1993-1994. Foley had a better timeline of Flair's career than Flair had. Flair also totally missed Foley's point. He wasn't arguing that he wasn't pushed as hard as he should have been, he was arguing that Flair was a callous asshole who said some things to him that nearly drove him into a legitimate depression. Flair had no response for that aspect whatsoever, because all he understood was that mean things were said, which meant he had to say mean things in return, no matter what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Campbell Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 OWNED: Have A Nice Day Foley Is Good To Be The Man Pure Dynamite Sex Lies and Headlocks The Death of WCW Brisco Inside Out (Ole Anderson) To Be The Man It's Good To Be The King . . . sometimes The Harley Race Story In The Pit With Piper It's True It's True Bobby "The Brain" Heenan - Wrestling's Bad Boy Tells All If They Only Knew Read: The Rock Says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Really need to read Hooker by Lou Thesz, since it's been called the most important book ever written about wrestling and all. Problem is that finding it is nearly impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Flair's bashing of Bret and mindless praise of HHH and HBK is annoying, yes, but no more annoying than Mick Foley spending eons in his second book defending WWE against the PTC. The big difference is that Foley actually gave logical arguments whether you agreed with his point of view or not. I do agree that the 2nd book was not worth writing though and the PTC obsession was part of the reason it sits on my shelf collecting dust. With Flair, I was just scratching my head half the time going WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I've read Foley's first book about 4 times. I tend to rad a book cover to cover as wuickly as possible and then it goes into the "taking a shit" department and gets read over the course of many shits. I've read a decent portion of his second book several times as well, but I always stop before the goofy roller coaster section and the PTC horseshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 That is way too much information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dangerous A Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just got Wrestling at the Chase in today from Amazon and I'm stoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Some Guy Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 That is way too much information. You love it and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I'd tend to believe any book written by someone still active in the business probably is going to suck and/or be full of BS. The best books seem to come from guys who either weren't directly in the business or are retired and don't give a shit if they piss anyone off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Campbell Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 which is why Pure Dynamite ruled so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Just completed Pure Dynamite. Fuck it... it blows Foley's book away. I have never read a wrestling book that seemed so honest. Even after DK would smash a guy in the mouth, he would turn around and give the guy all the accolades in the world. He admitted to everything he had done right and wrong. He held nothing back. Even if you disagreed with him or he got a few names wrong, you always believed him (at least I did). That would make Foley's book a very distant 2nd in my mind. To be honest, I thought I was going to be depressed after reading it but I wasn't. The ride was too wild to be depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I think if the Bret Hart series ever comes out, it will be quite amazing as well. Rumor has it that Bret has written something like 500 or 600 pages and he's only to mid-80s WWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yeah, that has been said many times but I will believe it when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I am a couple of chapters into Bobby Heenan's 2nd book Chair Shots and Other Obstacles. I guess tis is Bobby Heenan's attempt as a self-help book. However, there are enough wrestling antecdotes and situations in which the advice portion does not overpower the reader. My favorite part so far: Bobby Heenan compares promoters to pimps and wrestlers to whores. He says they are the only 2 occupations that are even comparable to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 OK, finally finished Heenan's 2nd book and I was wrong. At times, Bobby's advice does overpower the wrestling parts since I don't really care what he has to say. wrestling stories= good advice= bad If you buy it, at least know what you are getting into. However, I am now eager to pick up the first book so I can hear more of his wrestling stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I have the 2 Foley books. Enjoyable reads but the guy WAAAY overrates his value as a performer until about 1998. It seems to me that a lot of his negativity towards Flair, Sting, etc. is that they weren't willing to give a lot to a mid-card nobody for the most part. It seemed like he expected to be main eventing in WCW despite not having any real amount of heat. I like Foley and everything but he can be eye rolling sometimes. Also have Idiots Guide to Pro Wrestling with Lou Albano and I don't remember the other guy. It has it's faults but hey it's where I learned about Frank Gotch, George Hackenschmidt, Ed Lewis, Jim Londos and a few other guys from the early eras of wrestling. So it's actually a useful book despite what others will say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I still think Foley was just saying, "Flair is an asshole and said things to me that crushed me," more than he was complaining about the way he was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 It just came off as whiney to me. As a single story it doesn't bother me as much but when you insert it into all of his grumblings about how he should've been main eventing in WCW and it gets tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I didn't get that vibe from Foley's book at all. Put it this way... when Foley and Austin were with WCW, they were floundering in the midcard. When Vince gave them a chance, they both became successful draws. In WCW, they were never given the chance. Foley reinforces that point time and again and he is right. IF he was given the chance and failed then whatever. Foley just wanted the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I can understand that. I'll give him credit, unlike Austin, that once he got to the top he tried to pull as many people with him as possible. I have no sympathy for Austin because once he got to the top he almost immediately turned into what he hated in WCW the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Campbell Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 There is a part in Have A Nice Day that I dont agree with. It's when Foley tries to pin the blame on Flair, for himself and Austin leaving WCW. I don't recall the exact quote, but it's something along the lines of "He's also the same person who let both Mick Foley and Steve Austin walk out of WCW." I can see where Flair would hold some responsibility in Foley's case. But at the end of the day, Eric Bischoff still has to call the final shots. And from all accounts I've heard, Flair was in Austin's corner trying to get him pushed and make him World Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 If any wrestler was responsible for Austin being let go it would be Hulk Hogan, because by the summer of '95 he really had more booking power than anybody else in the company and had huge influence over Bischoff's decisions. Foley wasn't around then, so he probably blames Flair because he was still head booker then but by that point all he was doing was rubber stamping Hogan's decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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