Are Well Behaved Wrestlers Bad for Business Long Term?

[Jesse Ewiak]

I've been thinking about this a bit since the last few RAW's, where people have been like, "no Rollins is the future", "no Ambrose is", "no Rollins is", and so forth and so on around the Internet.

It's been weird because I personally feel neither of the Shield members nor anybody on the full-time WWE or NXT roster is "The Guy" and I think I've kind of parsed it out - nobody feels 'dangerous.'

I don't mean 'dangerous' as in will throw you in a table or yell nasty things at a woman wrestler. I mean 'dangerous' in the sense I think things could go off the rails at any second with them during an angle or a promo or even a match and even if it's bad, it'd be awesome. For a more modern example of this, think of any Piper's Pit in the last couple of years when everybody was kind of on edge because ole' Uncle Roddy could blow up at any second. Or for that matter, go back and watch any Randy Savage promo from the 80's. You know he actually didn't do anything that crazy, but there was this overwhelming feeling that he could punch out Gene Okerlund, rip a locker off it's walls, go attack the camera, or some other insane thing.

Even somebody like Hogan, who seems fairly bland when you can describe him was actually kind of a crazy person - stripping Sherri, screaming like a madman in promos, being kind of an ass in the ring even as a babyface, and so on. Yeah, you know how a Hogan promo would end, but you don't know how he'd get there.

Now today, everything is safe. Again, I'm not talking about "oh no there's no more boobies or blood or swearing", I'm talking about a feeling of the wrestlers being barely controlled insane people. Now, outside of Brock, there's nobody on the current WWE roster I'm actually scared off. Sure, I know rationally Big E or Bray Wyatt could kick the shit out of me, but I don't think they actually would. After all, the most dangerous thing 95% of the current WWE roster has seemingly done is get popped for a DUI in Tampa during their developmental days because Uber didn't exist yet.

Now, I don't deny this is likely better for locker room harmony, WWE's public relations, the view of the business from the outside world, and indeed, for the health and safety of many of the workers. But, it seems to lead to a less involving product. I'm not saying that everybody has to be a pill popping madman who's trying to screw everything that moves like it was in the 80's and 90's, but if every member of the roster is a wrestling geek who happen to luck out genetically, where will the characters come from? Where are the washouts, the weirdoes, the wanderers who came in and out of wrestling for decades?

And no, Dean Ambrose isn't a weirdo. He's a guy who likes Vegas a little too much. I mean, outside of Brock (and even then he's a introverted weirdo who lives in the middle of nowhere), it'd be a shock if any current member of the roster got in a bar fight, was accused of sexual assault, got caught with a massive supply of drugs, or any number of the crimes and shenangians wrestlers got into in the 70's and 80's and even before.

I'm not blaming this all on the workers. We're a less violent society, no matter the current serious situations with both cops and minorites, but it's also a fact it's the safest time in decades to be either a cop or a minority. Seriously, go back and look at the crime numbers from the 70's and 80's - fans pulling guns and causing riots make a lot more sense when you understand we were a rougher society. Maybe that's why wrestling could only become hugely successful in someplace like America in it's current form. So, if the price of having a nicer less violent society is that wrestling feels less 'dangerous', I'll happily take that.

I guess to bring it back to my original point. Imagine if that on the night after Battleground, whether he won or loss, Vince told Roman Reigns, "ok, you're opening the show. Tell the crowd how you really feel. We'll beep out any swear words, but try not to piss off the network. Other than that, you've got free reign."

Would Roman really be able to let loose? I'm not saying that to be anti-Roman, because I actually don't think anybody on the current roster could pull off that kind of promo and it's not because they're "bad promos", it's because they're by all reports, not a bunch of selfish carnie assholes.

In a lot of ways, CM Punk was the last selfish carnie asshole who hated his own fans. I think that's partly why he was able to bang every cute girl from the indies during his time - everybody else on the indies was well, a wrestling geek like you and me who happened to get a good dice roll when it came to genetics. It's also why fans latched onto him - he was 'dangerous.' In a weird post modern way, but that's perhaps why other 'Pipebomb' or Pipebomb adjace thing like Dolph Ziggler rants and the like don't permeate the conciousness like Punk's rant did - because people actually believed Punk. In their heart of hearts, they don't actually believe Ziggler.

So yeah, this is just a weird rant. Thoughts?

[Phil Schneider]

I agree with large parts of this, it is too bad Ambrose got so neutered because I though Jon Moxley really came off as a legit scumbag loose cannon on the indies.

[Woof]

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

[Jesse Ewiak]

I agree with large parts of this, it is too bad Ambrose got so neutered because I though Jon Moxley really came off as a legit scumbag loose cannon on the indies.

 

 

I honestly think Moxley was domesticated by being in FCW for a while and probably, hooking up with Renee Young.

 

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

 

Which is unfortunate, because MMA is fucking boring as hell 95% of the time.

[C.S.]

I agree with pretty much all of this, but there's one point I want to address:

 

In a weird post modern way, but that's perhaps why other 'Pipebomb' or Pipebomb adjace thing like Dolph Ziggler rants and the like don't permeate the conciousness like Punk's rant did - because people actually believed Punk. In their heart of hearts, they don't actually believe Ziggler.

 

Wasn't Ziggler's big "pipe bomb" some WWE.com/YouTube exclusive backstage interview? For one thing, no one saw that. But even if it was followed up on TV and I'm blanking out, there's one other important element you're not taking into consideration:

 

When Punk unleashed his "Pipe Bomb," WWE followed it up with a massive push and World Title reign. When Ziggler did it, WWE followed it up with crickets. Nothing happened. It was never presented as something that mattered. I think the fans believed Ziggler, but what they didn't believe was that his words would actually make a difference - and it didn't.

[El-P]

To summarize :

 

 

"These are pro-wrestlers. These aren't sport-entertainment guys. These are characters that you couldn't fucking create if you were doing a skit."

[sek69]

I don't think it's so much the wrestlers themselves as much as WWE seemingly achieving their goal of making everyone under contract as bland as possible. Everyone has to use the same heavy handed non-human sounding verbiage and work the same style. It takes someone with ridiculous levels of charisma like Nakamura or Enzo to overcome that, so 99% of your roster comes off as interchangeable boring guys.

[Loss]

I think this is driven by TV rights revenue. That's the name of the game. Their goal is to present themselves as respectable, thinking that they can command more ad revenue with a cleaner image if people think they are wholesome. And thus, their value to TV networks will be greater, which in turn will help their rights fees.

[pol]

At least we still have Rush and LA Park

[Sidebottom]

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

 

They wouldn't allow or want a Nick Diaz.

[funkdoc]

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

 

this ties very well into something i've wanted to make a thread about: MMA may not have hurt wrestling's raw numbers as much as some believed, but it's had a huge effect on the demographics of both wrestlers and fans.

 

tl;dr MMA has siphoned off the normies and turned wrestling into the dr. who of athletics

[C.S.]

Speaking of "bad behavior," here is a transcript of Cesaro's frustrated "shoot" interview (courtesy of Cageside Seats):

 

JoJo: Cesaro, you were drafted in the 6th round to Raw. How are you feeling about all of this?

 

Cesaro: First of all I’m not too happy to be drafted 17th in the 6th round. I had a feeling I should be drafted a little bit higher, I was hoping to be at least top ten. Just looking at the rosters and what the GMs talked about yesterday how SmackDown is going to be the wrestling show and all about in-ring product and all about the Superstars and not necessarily about the GMs and that whole drama, I feel like I probably would have been a better fit for SmackDown. But just like in my career so far here, there’s always a little stumble block or whatever that I have to overcome, so, um... I’m looking forward to being on the flagship product... trying to see the positive, being on the flagship product, WWE Raw, that’s where Cesaro belongs.

JoJo: Speaking of GMs, how do you think that Mick Foley being the General Manager and Stephanie McMahon being the Commissioner - how do you think they’ll co-exist?

 

Cesaro: Honestly, that’s part of the problem, that you just asked me that question because I don’t really care. I think Raw going forward needs to be about the Superstars, it needs to be about the performers in the ring and not about how Stephanie McMahon and Mick Foley co-exist. They need to be there to mediate and make the best show, but that does not need to be the focus. So, the focus should be on the Superstar who got drafted. We have Seth Rollins, we have New Day, we have Finn Bálor coming up from NXT - those are the people we should be here talking about. But we’re talking about Stephanie McMahon and Mick Foley which is annoying to me. A lot of people talk, it’s always a lot of talking and you haven’t heard me talk that much. This is actually great. I can be even able to talk and people can see I can actually speak, you know? My brain can form thoughts that come out through my mouth. The problem is sometimes I stumble the words because I speak five different languages, we know all that, so the thing is I like to speak the language that everybody speaks all around the world, that the WWE Universe loves... that’s the language of wrestling that I do in the ring. That’s what I do best. That’s why I always deliver. Cesaro on Raw.

 

http://www.cagesideseats.com/2016/7/20/12233518/cesaro-shoots-on-the-draft-mcmahon-centric-stories-in-his-post-show-promo

 

UPDATE: Now on YouTube!

 

[pol]

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

 

Yeah. Good article on that subject: http://deadspin.com/why-are-so-many-mma-fighters-truthers-conspiracists-a-1782042590

[I Broke Bruno's Neck]

Miss the old days in which a fucked up Buzz Sawyer would put another man gun's in his mouth and tell him to pull the trigger.

[sek69]

Interesting that Dave said the Cesaro thing was shoot-ish in the sense of he apparently decided to do his own angle in the promo and they're running with it. Interesting if this turns out to be his Austin 3:16 moment.

[RyanClingman]

 

Seems like all the guys you're looking for are into MMA now. WWE needs to find a Nick Diaz.

 

They wouldn't allow or want a Nick Diaz.

 

 

I agree with this. There is a clear paradox here, at least as far as the WWE is concerned. Vince has been quoted by various sources including Dave Meltzer as wanting people to challenge him. However, as we saw with but a playful nudge with Titus 'O Neil, this all depends on who you are and where on the card you are. Okay, so the tippy-top stars can challenge Vince and others, but, to make it to the top you can't challenge management or you will be pushed back down. So in the end very few people end up challenging management, and those that do like Ryback, Punk, and Cody Rhodes end up leaving pretty soon after realizing that the system is unbudging.