rzombie1988 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I've been looking up babyface managers and there really weren't that many. The main ones that come up are: (Not mentioned but should be) Richard Lee's face Moondogs in 1993 - This combination was fantastic. Lee could talk and often served as the punching bag for the team to keep various feuds going. What Lee did in Memphis in 1993 was absolutely awesome and was probably the best managerial run in the 90's. Albano's face run in 1985/1986ish - Haven't really seen as much of it as I probably should but it seems like he did decent, but obviously not his peak Cornette's Dynamic Dudes run - We all know how this played out Cornette's MX vs Heyman's OMX feud - One of the coolest feuds ever with two of the best managers in Heyman and Cornette going at it Humperink's run with Bigelow - Weird combination that never really clicked Arn's run as an advisor to the Horsemen in late 90's WCW - Nothing too special Dibiase's run with the Steiners in WCW - I kind of liked it even though it didn't last very long Ellering with the LOD - The LOD were always kind of tweeners and the less said about their WWF run the better Lord Alfred vs Heenan in the AWA - Hayes wasn't really a face but kind of became the defacto face in the feud, which was really good Am I missing any? Researching this topic, it seems it is virtually agreed upon that face managers can't work and don't work because the faces should be good talkers and that the managers need to get heat but can't actually do anything to get heat without becoming heels. But this is wrestling, where anything can happen, and I'm stubborn and refuse to take no for an answer. So PWO, how you would have booked a babyface manager either back in the territory days, the 90's or even today(if you are up for a real challenge)? Can you crack the code of making a babyface manager work? My main idea would probably be similar to what Richard Lee did with the Moondogs. I could definitely see a big face tag team like say NXT's Heavy Machinery being able to use a manager since they are both bigger dudes who can't talk and can't look too weak because they are bigger guys. I also could definitely see a rival face manager of a heel manager. They could basically serve as eternal rivals and they would always have the neutralize the cheating manager storyline to work with. I also think they would be able to do some trios matches which could be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Are we taking manager to mean strictly men? Because I can think of Miss Elizabeth off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Three categories I think could work: Hot chick, loveable mascot type figure, hard nosed coach. I think Daniel Bryan would be a good combination of the latter two not so much the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachchaos Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Arnold Skaaland deserves a namedrop. Jose Lothario most likely does not. Teddy Long was even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Are we taking manager to mean strictly men? Because I can think of Miss Elizabeth off the top of my head. Sure. Just I don't know if that could be done the same way these days after HLA, Pudding fights and the whole character and behavior of Liz being extremely conservative compared to what we are used to nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 The implication is that managers only exist for people who can't do anything on their own, which isn't a very babyface quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Are we taking manager to mean strictly men? Because I can think of Miss Elizabeth off the top of my head. Sure. Just I don't know if that could be done the same way these days after HLA, Pudding fights and the whole character and behavior of Liz being extremely conservative compared to what we are used to nowadays. I get what you're saying, but I think hypothetically if Renee Young was a valet for someone today she would serve basically the same role. There have also been other women over the years - Stacy Keibler, early Maria, Cherry - who could pull off that kind of sweet character (as well as the other thing, granted). Oversexualisation makes it harder, I guess, but not impossible. Does Lita count as the Hardyz manager, since she would accompany them out and interfere in their matches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I really liked babyface Percy Pringle in the waining days of World Class, I think it works best as a babyface turn for a longtime heel manager. I imagine Heenan turning face to deal with a greater evil would have been a huge deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I remember writing a fantasy scenario where Paul Heyman and the Dangerous Alliance invaded the WWF rather than Ric Flair, forcing Hogan and Heenan to do the unthinkable and join forces. Anyway I always think of Paul Bearer. He was a face for over 4 years which is a pretty long run for a face manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Are we taking manager to mean strictly men? Because I can think of Miss Elizabeth off the top of my head. Liz was absolutely useless, though. She couldn't get involved physically, couldn't talk, and only existed as an entity in wrestling because Randy demanded it. At absolute best she was there to prove how much of a shithead Randy was, but that wasn't her role as FACE manager at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Are we taking manager to mean strictly men? Because I can think of Miss Elizabeth off the top of my head. Liz was absolutely useless, though. She couldn't get involved physically, couldn't talk, and only existed as an entity in wrestling because Randy demanded it. At absolute best she was there to prove how much of a shithead Randy was, but that wasn't her role as FACE manager at all. Agreed. There's managers, bodyguards and valet's and Liz was much more of a valet. Managers = Mix of an agent/coach and could be a past wrestler as well. For the girls, Moolah fits this and I'm debating on if Alexandra York could fit into this or not. Valets = More along the lines of a girlfriend. This where your Lita's, Sunny's, Liz's and a lot of others go. They can be a distraction and eye candy and sometimes get involved, but you aren't going to them for wrestling advice and there hasn't really been a female "agent" type, though I don't see any reason why you couldn't go that route. Bodyguards = Think Diesel and Big Bubba - Not really someone you'd have scoring your next contract and not someone you'd go to for wrestling advice, but cold hard muscle. For the girls, Chyna and Nicole Bass fit this role. The discussion kind of got sidetracked from what I was looking for with the valets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I imagine Heenan turning face to deal with a greater evil would have been a huge deal. He comes from behind the broadcast booth in WCW to manage the Horsemen during the beginning of the NWO angle. He cuts interviews for weeks and weeks about how he was right about Hogan all along, and bring up his bad neck. Don't do anything with him physically but tease it all the time to get heat on the NWO guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Elizabeth didn't really need to be a strong performer. She and Savage as a single act were tremendous playing off of each other, even if Savage was the one doing all the work. He of course didn't need her by his side to be a star, but he did lose something when she wasn't. Her presence just gave him someone to play off of. That was all that was needed to make it work. She wasn't useless, she was actually a key part of his superstardom during his peak years, even if she was just along for the ride and just about anyone attractive and demure could have filled the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Nowadays, I think a manager can get over as a babyface if they have a big spiel like Alejando Estrada, Enzo, Road Dogg or even Ricardo Rodriguez. The crowd seems to really get into sing along entrances. I still think Enzo would be a better manager than a wrestler but that's beside the point. After that, just have them look vulnerable (like Enzo always does) and take a beating from heels. It shouldn't be that hard. Then you can have their wrestler want to get revenge for them. It's too bad those entrances always feel like old & tired acts to me by the third time I hear it. Because it usually lasts for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Elizabeth didn't really need to be a strong performer. She and Savage as a single act were tremendous playing off of each other There was a time - not sure what year, maybe 2008? 09? - when it seemed like they were going to do a similar angle with Ziggler (heel) and Maria. I don't know anything about Maria's work after leaving WWE, but her look and "gimmick" at that time definitely lent itself to being the innocent naive girl who shacks up with the overly confident jock. Missed opportunity there as I saw chemistry between them. Enzo is a good example of a modern babyface manager. Undersized and an easy target, but willing to go toe-to-toe with anyone and entertaining on the mic. But to answer the original question, I think you don't book a babyface manager. You book a heel manager and you wait for their catchphrases or schtick to become beloved. Certainly worked for Cornette during his face run in NWA in the late 80s. For another example, I think, in today's world, a manager like Slick would've probably gotten over as a face eventually - cool suits, cool entrance music, could dance, natural charisma. I'm not sure Jimmy Hart or Fuji would've (Hart and Fuji were never "cool"), but Heenan? He would've been no less popular than Heyman is now - a guy who, at the very least, is typically cheered by 33% of the audience no matter how much he tears them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Badger Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 I always liked Bill Alfonso as RVD's manager. More of a hype man like Flavor Flav to Chuck D. That's the way to book a babyface manager... A guy that's gonna pump the fans up to see his star plus give comedic relief and occasionally bail him out of tough spot. I think this echoes the above point, it was a heel manager gimmick that became beloved...comedy plays a big part in making that shift. Corney, Hart especially have that comedic value as managers.. They play it up more when working as faces though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 2, 2017 Report Share Posted April 2, 2017 Are we not counting Jimmy Hart's run as Hogan's manager from 93-95? And didn't Fuji manage Yokozuna briefly in '96? I remember him coming out at WM 12 with a 2-sided flag, one Japanese, one American. Not saying they worked necessarily, but it happened. Not to forget, Fuji and Heenan's brief feud in 1991 https://youtu.be/fmpRW-888x4?t=49m21s https://youtu.be/nT20L2omwYk?t=1h30m30s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy hats Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 https://youtu.be/nT20L2omwYk?t=1h30m30s Lol at the screengrab of this link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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