Grimmas Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Fuck why do they insist on voting on people during their prime? It's mind boggling. Dave addressed this in the HOF issue. He said that workrate candidates have to go in early because their legacies tend to be forgotten as years go by (he specifically mentioned Kiyoshi Tamura and Red Bastien as victims of this tendency). On the other hand, guys who won lots of titles tend to do better as the years pass. This seems like an inherent issue without a structural fix. Anyway, looking at the lucha candidates, Los Misioneros, Ultimo Guerrero, Villano III, Cien Caras, LA Park, Karloff Lagarde, Dr. Wagner Jr., and Blue Panther all received between 40 and 60 percent of the vote. There seems to be a serious collective action problem with Mexico voters. They need to coalesce around a couple of candidates to break the logjam. If they are forgetting, then they don't belong in the HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 If they are forgetting, then they don't belong in the HOF. Why not? Historical memory is fickle and largely outside the control of the wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 One thing I noticed while looking through the results is that Edge appears to be finally getting some momentum for the HOF after years of Dave stumping for him. He improved his overall percentage 9 points, from 40% to 49%, and was in the top 30 in all four voting quadrants for the first time. He also appears to be getting significant support in the Reporters category, and the top three in that category were all voted in this year. Of the top 5 in the Reporters category from 2016, 2 were elected last year and 1 other (Morales) went in this year, though the other two (Big Daddy and Blue Panther) each saw significant drops in their Reporters support that coincided with their own drops this year. One thing that I've always found curious, when compared to the Baseball Hall of Fame, is how support for candidates tend to ebb and flow in strange directions, rather than candidates building momentum. On the baseball hall of fame ballot, you'll usually see down ballot guys lose support as the years progress, as writers begin to realize that those candidates have no real chance at induction and thus use their votes to support candidates that have a better chance of induction, but on the WON HOF ballot, you'll see wrestlers that are at the cusp of going in suddenly and inexplicably lose support and then never get voted in. I think there have been more than a few candidates that were within a vote or two of getting in who wind up falling off the ballot, never to make it in. Seeing that happen again this year with Cien Caras, who was three votes shy of election but could fall off the ballot if he doesn't get 50% next year, just drives home to me how weird the Observer Hall of Fame is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I wonder if the E and C podcast didnt help Edge too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 One thing that I've always found curious, when compared to the Baseball Hall of Fame, is how support for candidates tend to ebb and flow in strange directions, rather than candidates building momentum. On the baseball hall of fame ballot, you'll usually see down ballot guys lose support as the years progress, as writers begin to realize that those candidates have no real chance at induction and thus use their votes to support candidates that have a better chance of induction, but on the WON HOF ballot, you'll see wrestlers that are at the cusp of going in suddenly and inexplicably lose support and then never get voted in. I think there have been more than a few candidates that were within a vote or two of getting in who wind up falling off the ballot, never to make it in. Seeing that happen again this year with Cien Caras, who was three votes shy of election but could fall off the ballot if he doesn't get 50% next year, just drives home to me how weird the Observer Hall of Fame is.Absolutely. I can tell you which returning candidates will get elected right now (Vlad and Hoffman). This ballot, Lewin wasnt on my radar at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I wonder if the E and C podcast didnt help Edge too. Edge being off TV for five years has helped him. With the more distance he builds the better he looks. His good is enhanced and his bad disappears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I'd love to know how the breakdown of how many people are voting in each of the four "buckets" that Dave uses (Reporters, Historians, Former Wrestlers, Current Wrestlers) that Dave places voters. My guess is that far more people are voting in the Reporters and Historians categories than the two wrestler categories, so I wonder if having "Hall of Fame support" in, say, the Current Wrestlers category is essentially meaningless, because not enough current wrestlers are voting, whereas having HOF support in the Reporters category is very important, as the top three vote-getters in the Reporters category all made it in (Styles placed 7th in the Current Wrestlers category, the highest any inductee fared). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 If they are forgetting, then they don't belong in the HOF. Why not? Historical memory is fickle and largely outside the control of the wrestlers. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of things that were cool at the time. If you are forgotten 5 years later, then you probably don't belong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Being cool at the time is literally the entire point of professional wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Can we start a movement to get Regal added to the WON Hall of Fame ballot? I think he may have more of a case than people think. I see things like the tweets linked below from Chris Harrington, and how high he placed on the PWO GWE Project, and then add that I think he's been very influential in WWE developmental the past 5 years, and I think he deserves to have his case heard. I think it's very likely he'll be one and done, but I think there's a case here, even if he never got a main event run anywhere (which obviously is not a disqualifier with guys like Ultimo Dragon already in). https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/938915552831078400 https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/938915828904398848 https://twitter.com/mookieghana/status/938916900805005312 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Should people make an argument for Arn as an agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 Should people make an argument for Arn as an agent? Not unless we have specific examples of quality matches that we *know* he was responsible for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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