Coffey Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I was reading the DVDVR forums for, maybe the second time in my life because I wanted to check out the drama of Sek's continual suspension. That being said, I'm actually entertained by the Batista Vs. Styles thread. Granted the people don't go into great detail, for the most part, of why the voted the way they did and I'm still only on the first page, however thus far it's enjoyable. It did make me think though. What's Batista's best match? He had three matches with Hunter. He had a tag match with Orton & Flair against Rock & Foley. He had a couple matches with Jericho on Raw. A bad match with JBL. I just can't really think of anything that stood out. Off the top of my head, I'd probably say his Hell in a Cell match with Hunter. Is there a big match that I'm forgetting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 His tag matches with Rey vs MNM on Smackdown right before he got injured again were really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Having not seen the Eddy match yet, I'll say either of the tags w/ Rey vs MNM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted April 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Sek, on what page did your shit start to happen on the DVDVR thread? I don't want to have to register just to shut off signatures. EDIT: Fuck it, I registered anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'd say one of the tags with Flair against Benoit and Edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 The HITC with Trips is probably his best match, then I'd go with the tags with Rey against MNM, and tied for third would be his matches with Triple-H at Backlash and Eddie at No Mercy which are around the same level I'd say. Having said that, I don't watch WWE TV (Though I caught the MNM tags after much pimping) so he may have some hidden gems out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Sort of off-topic, but my god, when did the smark "community" get so pretentious and shitty? That thread makes me ashamed to even be around the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Sort of off-topic, but my god, when did the smark "community" get so pretentious and shitty? That thread makes me ashamed to even be around the discussion. It's funny how they'll slag WWE and its workers for being talentless shitbags, but threads like "DAVE vs AJ" are full of a lot of the same folks saying Batista is the superior professional wrestler. A lot of people want to have their cake and eat it too, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I don't quite get this whole new DVDVR-led phenomenon of the "IWC" being marks for hosses and anyone who can throw a good punch. Not that I'm some big fan of spot-monkeys, but I swear one of these days we're going to see a thread on that board saying Giant Silva was a better worker than Shawn Michaels. Just wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dangerous A Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 You do know DVDVR did have a thread proclaiming Mark Fucking Henry to being a better worker than Shawn Michaels. Now, I don't love Shawn Michaels and I don't hate Mark Henry, but I can certainly tell you without batting an eye that when it comes to doing a pro wrestling match, Shawn Michaels is better than Mark Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Sort of off-topic, but my god, when did the smark "community" get so pretentious and shitty? That thread makes me ashamed to even be around the discussion. Yeah, that thread sums up everything I hate about the IWC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'm really starting to hate the internet in general. Every place I go to (except NMB ) is just infested with pretentious douchebags. Can't I go somewhere and talk about the scripted rasslin' without getting kicked in the cyber balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 ^ Agree. I don't mind some hard-boiled wrestling discussion, where the participants attack each other's position and good points are being made. But this stuff at DVDVR is just masturbatory, trolling bullshit. It's amazing that some of those clowns are allowed to stay, given have inflammatory and repugnant their statments are. RE: DVDVR and the hoss shit: It's the new fad. Back in 99/2000, the fad was sleazy Japanese indy stuff and BattlARTS. The latter would be heralded as great stuff, when it seemed (to me anyway) that it was merely decent, and nothing to really get worked up about. Now the fad is with story-driven matches that are devoid of any quality technical wrestling. Thus, you get people pimping Mark Henry (who is a pretty terrible technical wrestler) just because he was involved in some dime-a-dozen story-based matches. Which I have no problem with, even if I think it's somewhat silly, but a lot of these people are also incredibly pretentious, condasending and downright douchebags, which kind of sheds a bad light on their opinions. And to clarify, when I say technical wrestling, I don't exclusively mean crisp matwork or whatever. I'm just using that term to define the "physicality" of the match, whether it be a brawl, mat-based match, lucha, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 His singles match against Benoit at the beginning of Raw in 05 was great. That bout was actually similar to Bret vs Austin in that it helped propel Batista's career -- just like Austin's career. After that the fans who were already behind Batista really got behind Batista. The match was perfect timing. We can argue about what's best but I think it's undebatable that when you actually look back objectively at the scenario that it was actually Batista's most important match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kevin Cook Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Part of it is people mindlessly going along with the mods' eccentric and often willfully obtuse tastes in wrestling without realizing why the mods have those opinions and a lot of it is a reaction to the ridiculous overpimping of ROH over the last while. Personally if anything's going to be in style I'd prefer it to be matches with less moves and more stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Part of it is people mindlessly going along with the mods' eccentric and often willfully obtuse tastes in wrestling without realizing why the mods have those opinions and a lot of it is a reaction to the ridiculous overpimping of ROH over the last while. A lot of it seems to be fear of getting labeled a troll and/or banned if you dare disagree with whatever the current Accepted Correct Opinion is on a subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I've said this before, but everything on the Internet is typically spoken in absolutes and extremes, and is usually a backlash to a preceding viewpoint. That originated when Meltzer created this group of hardcore fans by declaring that wrestlers who had the most physical matches were the best workers, and that Ric Flair was the unquestioned best wrestler of all time. Then tOA came along with the reactionary viewpoint that Flair wasn't particularly great and that work holding up over time and being "smart" was important. People got sick of some of the attitudes of posters there and a backlash started to the overuse of phrases like "moveset" and "high end offense", where people are now focusing more on story-based matches. The truth is somewhere in the middle of everything, as is usual. Ric Flair is a great wrestler, and is one of the very best wrestlers ever. That doesn't change. In fact, after watching tons of footage for months trying to get a handle on the SC 100 list, Ric Flair is likely to finish #1 on my list overall, because if anything, my opinion of him has improved in the last few months and continues to improve almost every time I find a new match of his I haven't seen before. A more demanding, physical style does make a match easier to get into and can make it more exciting, but at its core, wrestling connects with people, and a match with all the flashiness/stiffness/high flying in the world is a bad match if it doesn't emotionally resonate with its audience. AJ Styles is not a horrible wrestler, and I've seen him in some very good matches. But it goes back to the reactionary viewpoint. When a merely good wrestler is being pimped as this extraordinary wrestler, sometimes, some of us are guilty of going overboard in bringing the other viewpoint down to make ours stronger. I know I've done it, because I've criticized Styles as much as anyone. So if there's one habit I wish everyone - self included - could get out of, it's responding to extremist points of view with an equally extremist point of view. Mark Henry had a few good matches. Shawn Michaels, for all of his annoyances at times, has had a 20+ year career where he's been good-great most of that time. Michaels is worse than his biggest supporters make him out to be and better than his biggest detractors make him out to be. You can say the same for Mark Henry, AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Necro Butcher, modern-day Kenta Kobashi and any other polarizing wrestler you want to mention. Wrestling in Japan hasn't been as good since 1997 or so, but that doesn't mean that every single Japanese wrestling match that has taken place since is among the worst ever that has taken place since 1997. Everyone is guilty of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 What Loss said should be at the top of every message board on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bravesfan Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I'm glad that I'm not the only one thinking the exact thoughts that Loss and Kevin Cook have been making in this thread. That specific thread will soon be referred to in an infamous manner, simply due to the layers of the debate. For some, picking A.J. Styles is obvious because the wrestling world paints him as a "better" wrestler. On the other hand, the DVDVR people will pick that apart with extreme examples, so it will soon be nothing more than a blip in the argument. There's a few jackasses in that thread who think that Batista either didn't deserve his spot, or has not done enough since then to keep his spot, which are both ludicrous. For others, it's picking Batista because of the individual being sold on his entire persona. Personally, he's one of the two or three active workers today that I will be a mark for. Others will be sold on the matches that Styles has had with Joe. Others will pick Batista because it's arguable that all of Styles' great matches have come as a result of Joe. And so on. There's so many supporters for each party that the thread could go on beyond the next weekend. It's got the legs to accomplish that - that's for sure. And I voted for Batista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweetMama Scaat Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 This got me thinking... That last post was the perfect end to that debate, but on the same token..Who do yall like better character wise? Batista or AJ Styles? Forget match quality and in ring ability, go on promos, stage presence, appearance,angles and rivalries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted April 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Batista. I've liked the matches that AJ has churned out more, because he's worked guys like Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, American Dragon, etc. Batista actually made me care about Smackdown for awhile. That's saying something. I liked his character. He was this big, monsterous beast...but he was kindof like the Hulk in that he had to get upset for the beast to come out. Outside of matches, he's this funny, subtle, sharp-dressing, laid back dude. It's comedy. I hate Styles' character. He's like a christian prep with a southern drawl but I'm supposed to cheer for him? I hated preps in high school, why should I like Styles? Because he's athletic? So is everyone else in the X-Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 I prefer Styles really. Batista typically has a stronger character but he suffers from horrible writing behind him. Before Eddie died he was going to have two heels fool him into thinking that they were going to reform before turning on him. I'd rather take a limited character over one that's all over the place and not consistent for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts