Wrestling Project

[dawho5]

I recently had an idea for a series of projects (not all necessarily involving me) for the board. After talking to a few people about them it seems like there might be a section of people around who would be willing to do this kind of thing, so I'm just going to put it out there.

 

We take the areas of wrestling that may not be that popular or understood:

 

- World of Sport

 

- Lucha Libre

 

- Joshi

 

- Shootstyle

 

- Puerto Rico

 

- lucharesu that isn't MPro

 

If you can think of something else to add, great. We add it to the list of projects. And have a theme to the whole project, a goal in mind. My first thought was taking lucha libre and comparing and contrasting aspects of it with American wrestling. Something to give some perspective on the nuts and bolts and how it all goes together. Also I thought more abstract concepts involving wrestling would work:

 

- My biggest idea here is look at 1988-1992 and how some careers, namely Sting, Pillman and Luger really got killed before they could truly start. Yet both Foley and Austin came out of the same place. Take a deeper look at how each was booked during all of the regime changes and what effect it had on them in the eyes of the fans. If you can come up with more names to add to that list or different projects in the same vein, again, throw the idea out there.

 

Get one person who is extremely well-versed in the subject matter. Have three others at least dedicated to watching a certain amount of themed matches, etc. each week. These three people can have any level of experience on the subject. Post the reactions and discussions on the board and leave it open for anyone to throw in if they like. But with the caveat that you do not attack opinions or posters, you simply disagree and state your reasons why.

 

Honestly having somebody who is a novice or not a huge fan of the subject matter makes a lot of sense. To me these projects are usually very good for intermediate and above on that promotion/style or whatever to follow along. But it can be very difficult for somebody relatively new to, for the sake of this argument, let's say WoS or lucha to really get into it. There are parts of it so different and it can be an uphill battle trying to process them while also trying to derive enjoyment from the matches. So with this idea, you have at least one person who is on that level involved and is struggling with it. It takes away that nagging thought that you don't want to be the stupid guy disagreeing with this person who clearly knows his stuff. And it gives you an idea on what you might like once you get used to how people react to matches. If a couple of people you know you generally agree with like a match, you are probably more likely to watch it.

 

As I said above, my first thought was lucha libre. I personally struggle with trios matches that don't involve somebody I really like. The big matches between great workers like Santo, Casas, Satanico, etc. I'm all for. So maybe get some folks together and we go through a week of trios matches, then a week of title matches, then a week of apuestas matches. Follow that up with a couple of weeks on the development of feuds and then go into deeper stuff.

 

I've talked to CapitalT a little about somehow integrating parts of this with GME and would welcome any thoughts on that as well.

 

I've also been in contact with Boricua on getting one started on Puerto Rico. I'm open to any idea that we can start this thing and getting it rolling with. I think it would be a good way to first, have a good way of making some of the less known wrestling styles easier to get into. And second, have good discussions and get to know one another's tastes in wrestling a little better. So if you have ideas I didn't mention or liked something I put above, by all means call it out. Like I mentioned above, I don't think experience level with a promotion/style should hold a person back on this either. So there is absolutely no need to be shy.

 

[AstroBoy]

I've been meaning to get into World of Sport at some point and a project like this seems like a nice entryway. Ditto for diving into Puerto Rico or Lucha. How intensive would you envision this kind of thing being? A few matches a week? Would the idea be to have these mini projects going simultaneously or one at a time? Just a few questions as I think the idea is really promising and solid.

[dawho5]

I would say the principals would have to figure out a matches/segments per week kind of a deal and how long they wanted it to go. Whatever the most busy person in the group could handle I imagine. And I'd say that there would be no real restriction to it. If a person had time for 2 or 3 and that many were going, why not? Part of my plan on this was that it is a very, very open process. If you can get 4 people or more on a topic, organize it and go. And if something comes up you like that you're not a part of, follow along. The idea is very much centered on making things more accessible that don't at first glance seem that way.

[Cap]

Big supporter of this. I think its a great idea to help get people into new styles. I am currently sort of diving into WOS after getting two matches in the match trade project. Depending on what is chosen, timing, and all that I could be in. I do hope it gets off the ground though.

[Britwresdvds]

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

[AstroBoy]

Well I would definitely take part in Lucha, WOS, Puerto Rico, or the 1992 thing Dawho mentioned. So if I can help or if anyone wants to come together on any of that just let me know in here or PM. Should be cool.

[Cap]

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

That is fair. For me, right now I am sort of exploring strictly WOS proper, but that is really only by happenstance. I am interested in British Wrestling more generally from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I am very much guilty of sort of lumping it under the "WOS" banner. Sincerely, thanks for drawing attention to the distinction. It's helpful.

[Cap]

Also, to follow up on maybe bringing this in GME. I think we need a little more time to get those nominations rolling in, maybe see how the project plays out here. I would like to bring something like this over to GME where we take groupings of matches form Lucha, British Wrestling, PR, or any other place/time that might be a blind spot for people and do some mini projects to help people get antiquated a bit.

 

If anyone is well versed, has access to a good amount of footage or knows where to find stuff, and would potentially like to help walk some others through some match groupings and/or provide some context in a similar project in GME... pm me.

[Britwresdvds]

 

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

That is fair. For me, right now I am sort of exploring strictly WOS proper, but that is really only by happenstance. I am interested in British Wrestling more generally from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. I am very much guilty of sort of lumping it under the "WOS" banner. Sincerely, thanks for drawing attention to the distinction. It's helpful.

 

 

No worries. Not a criticism at all. I just noticed it happens a lot.

 

There's a lot to dive into as far as British wrestling goes, and that's without even mentioning the wider European scene.

[dawho5]

My guess is because World of Sport is the most easily recognizable format of British wrestling it's what things get lumped under. European wrestling as a whole is not really covered well.

 

And in case the size of the original obscured this point, I'll repeat it. The things I mentioned are what popped into my head for projects. If you have a different project idea either that you really want to try or you think doesn't get enough attention, pitch it and see if people like it.

 

Finally, these kids of things need the experts and as Matt D mentioned, most people here are specialists. If you are really strong in one of those places that doesn't get enough attention, would you be willing to run a few of us through it?

[JNLister]

Shameless plug, but could be useful here: my match listings site at itvwrestling.co.uk now has all the embedded YouTube videos I could find.

[Cap]

Shameless plug, but could be useful here: my match listings site at itvwrestling.co.uk now has all the embedded YouTube videos I could find.

Someone linked this to me in the Beginners Guide to British Wrestling thread. This is super helpful.

[fxnj]

80's joshi is definitely the area I'd be interested in. I love the matwork-heavy style and the hot crowds. It also seems almost entirely unexplored beyond a small handful of classics. There is a bit of a problem with there not being a whole lot of footage from that period online, though.

[dawho5]

You could always try to put together a few weeks worth of the footage we have in some kind of thematic order.

[Migs]

 

 

- My biggest idea here is look at 1988-1992 and how some careers, namely Sting, Pillman and Luger really got killed before they could truly start. Yet both Foley and Austin came out of the same place. Take a deeper look at how each was booked during all of the regime changes and what effect it had on them in the eyes of the fans. If you can come up with more names to add to that list or different projects in the same vein, again, throw the idea out there.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be very interested in something like this - I'm familiar with the period but the specificity of the discussion (what were really the turning points for these guys?) seems like it would be really fun to dive into.

[Loss]

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

 

This is a good time to ask if every single match that aired in the original ITV run aired on the "Movies & Men" run in the 2000s. Or were some left on the cutting room floor? In other words, are there original 70s-80s recordings out there that are worth finding and getting, or would they just be duplicates of the superior quality 2000s stuff that aired?

[dawho5]

I've been talking with Boricua about organizing PR. We're making progress as to how we want to approach the subject.

 

I count 3 who would be up for looking at 1988-1992 with specific wrestlers in mind, myself included. I am somewhat familiar with the era, but I think the setup on that project will require a lot of digging into match results, promos, etc. to get the right setup for it (which I think is key). Would have to be a collaborative effort to really dig into whatever resources are available and find the footage to go through. If Migs and Astro are up for it we can start a PM thread where we get things organized.

[GSR]

 

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

 

This is a good time to ask if every single match that aired in the original ITV run aired on the "Movies & Men" run in the 2000s. Or were some left on the cutting room floor? In other words, are there original 70s-80s recordings out there that are worth finding and getting, or would they just be duplicates of the superior quality 2000s stuff that aired?

 

 

Providing that itvwrestling.co.uk is complete then, going by the spreadsheet I typed up about five years ago, 732 different matches aired on TWC.

 

If you say that the original ITV Saturday afternoon broadcasts on average would air three matches per show, say fifty shows a year, then that 732 would equate to roughly five years of broadcasts. Considering that TWC aired matches from 1972, I would say there is a good ten years worth of stuff that never aired, likely more, although John would know far more than me on the subject.

[AstroBoy]

I've been talking with Boricua about organizing PR. We're making progress as to how we want to approach the subject.

 

I count 3 who would be up for looking at 1988-1992 with specific wrestlers in mind, myself included. I am somewhat familiar with the era, but I think the setup on that project will require a lot of digging into match results, promos, etc. to get the right setup for it (which I think is key). Would have to be a collaborative effort to really dig into whatever resources are available and find the footage to go through. If Migs and Astro are up for it we can start a PM thread where we get things organized.

Yeah I would definitely be up to get involved and help. I don't have the greatest knowledge of that time period but I will do whatever to help set things up.

[Britwresdvds]

 

Sorry to sound like a massive pedant here, but when you say World of Sport are you planning to look just at what aired on ITV, or at British wrestling in general from that period?

 

I ask because there's a ton of interesting British footage from the 70s, 80s and 90s out there which isn't from WOS / ITV, such as Reslo, camcorder footage, etc.

 

I'm never sure how much of British wrestling gets lumped in under the term 'World of Sport' in any given discussion.

 

This is a good time to ask if every single match that aired in the original ITV run aired on the "Movies & Men" run in the 2000s. Or were some left on the cutting room floor? In other words, are there original 70s-80s recordings out there that are worth finding and getting, or would they just be duplicates of the superior quality 2000s stuff that aired?

 

 

The Wrestling Channel / Movies & Men run isn't even close to everything.

 

I bought a lot of 70s and 80s stuff from various people, which wasn't broadcast on TWC or Movies & Men. A couple of my rarer finds were even from overseas broadcasts, although I'm unsure of the channel / country.

 

The quality of the stuff varies enormously, as you would expect.

 

According to a source who is very much in the know, there is a lot of footage still in the archives too.