sek69 Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Saw this in today's WO update: --Mitsuharu Misawa beat Naomichi Marufuji earlier today at Budokan Hall to win the GHC heavyweight title. This sets up the next Budokan main event of Misawa defending against Takeshi Morishima. The big pop on the show was Kenta Kobashi doing an interview, his first appearance before the crowd since discovering he had cancer at the end of June. Unless there's a fountain of youth hidden in Japan, the last time I saw Misawa he was pretty broken down. Giving him a major title at this point seems like the puro equivalent of the Hulkamania Nostalgia Tour of a few years ago. I know he runs the company, but this seems to be at near Verne-as-AWA-champ-in-the-80s levels. Besides, I thought Marufuji was supposed to be one of the up and coming stars, does this mean NOAH lost confidence in him as a top guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I think Marufuji/KENTA drawing as poorly as it did probably made them give up on the idea they had of putting smaller guys on top. I'm certain this is just a way to get the belt on Morishima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I never bought the stories that Marufuji would have a lengthy run and would be pushed as NOAH's ace, as it was fairly obvious that Morishima was being groomed for that spot even before Marufuji won the title. In terms of making Morishima a draw, it's better that he beats Misawa for the title than Marufuji. So yeah, this isn't as bad as Verne or WWE, it's more of a sad necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 While I'll admit to having never seen Morishima before, wouldn't Morishima-Marufuji be a better match than Misawa-Morishima at this point? Or would styles actually dictate Misawa would be the better match? Strictly from a match quality factor and not necessarily business-wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I think the idea is that beating Misawa means more than beating Marufuji, and also that Misawa can take the loss much easier than Marufuji at this stage. Plus, Misawa and Morishima had a match in March that was supposedly pretty great that I haven't had a chance to watch yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I think the idea is that beating Misawa means more than beating Marufuji, and also that Misawa can take the loss much easier than Marufuji at this stage. Plus, Misawa and Morishima had a match in March that was supposedly pretty great that I haven't had a chance to watch yet. The Misawa-Morishima match earlier in the year wasn't all that great. On the other hand, NOAH Fans in the building enjoyed it, and as physically screwed up as Misawa is, there isn't any reason why he couldn't put on that same performance again (or top it for that matter). There wasn't anything terribly complex from a Misawa-standpoint in that performance. Allegedly, Morishima has improved greatly since then to the point that he's the best heavyweight in the world. So if you take: March Misawa + Misawa In Fired Up Big Match Mode + March Morishima + Miroshima Improved To Being The Best Heavy In The World I suspect people will think their match in January will be great. As far as whether it should be Marufuji or Misawa winning to hold the belt, the voice of the fans was pretty clear - they wanted Misawa to win the title. As I wrote on tOA - I have sympathy for Misawa. He has never wanted to be the Ace of NOAH. He frankly didn't want to be the ace of All Japan down the stretch, but that was Baba's call. A variety of circumstances have tended to screw up his hopes. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Misawa is still the second most over guy in the company, and a living legend, so I can't really see the problem. The crowd went crazy when Misawa won, and the show seemed to draw a bigger house than the previous Budokan show. And ultimately, this just sets up Morishima to get the big win from Misawa, and eventually Kobashi. Morishima beating Marufuji for the title would be a rather anti-climatic way for Morishima's first run to kick-off. And as for Marufuji, him as the ace was not going to work anyway, as I don't think people would have accepted him beating Misawa, or any other top heavyweights on a regular basis. And finally, Misawa has a financial stake in the company if I'm not mistaken, so obviously he wants to do what's best for business. Him as the GHC champ over Marufuji makes better business sense at this point, both in the short-term (him drawing as champ) and long-term (making Morishima into a big draw for the future). Re: Morishima vs. Misawa from March - I only thought it was merely "good", but it was the sort of match that was way, way over with the live crowd. I don't particular like overkill offense, but those matches definitely get over with the crowds. Point being, the rematch for the GHC title could be something special, and should go a long way into getting Morishima over as THE guy (although it won't truly happen until he gets put over Kobashi). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: Morishima vs. Misawa from March - I only thought it was merely "good", but it was the sort of match that was way, way over with the live crowd. I don't particular like overkill offense, but those matches definitely get over with the crowds. Point being, the rematch for the GHC title could be something special, and should go a long way into getting Morishima over as THE guy (although it won't truly happen until he gets put over Kobashi). I tend to think the "overness" of the match with the crowd as being overplayed. It had heat in spots. It had heat in the end. It didn't exactly have the level of heat that Tully Blanchard had against Barry Windham infront of far less fans. Part of that is Budokan. Part of that is the NOAH-style. Part of it is the fans who tend to pop here and there these days compared to sustained heat of the past. But it really was only "way, way over" with the crowd within that narrow context. I expected to see a molten crowd that was on the edge of exploding. You know... Backlund vs. Patera finish. It wasn't remotely close to that. I hope Misawa eventually finds THE guy to replace himself. I have some doubts. To become The Man, one really needs rivals rather than simply replacing the prior generation. Misawa didn't become The Man while Jumbo was around, and he wasn't going to become it simply by beating Hansen, Gordy and Doc. He needed Kawada, Taue and Kobashi to be judged against where we clearly saw that he was #1 among rivals. We saw the same thing from Hash over time with the IWGP Title, and Mutoh only had his brief moment of looking like The Man within New Japan (when it mattered) after being Hash a second time and then beating that evil UWF-stylist Takada at the Dome. They can put Morishima over Misawa, Kobashi and Taue all they want. It really will mean disk unless not only he steps up, but also a core of rivals opposite him step up. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 That's a good point. There won't be interest if there are no opponents. Morishima could be SOL in that regard. Who else is there from Morishima's generation? Rikio could be somewhat of a player. His reign was a total bomb, but he seems to have gained some of his popularity back after losing the strap (I'm basing this on the crowd reaction I hear for him). I'm skeptical about KENTA and Marufuji's ability to be long-term heavyweight threats. I just don't think the crowds will accept them in that role for anything other than a quirky, short-term thing. After that, it's all new-generation guys. Shiosaki has a ton of potential, but he's still a few years off, and he won't really be a "generation rival". Same goes for the greener rookies like Taniguchi. I think they can get some mileage out of Morishima vs. Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama at this point. After that, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Is there a reason Samoa Joe isn't working as a top gaijin in NOAH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Becuase it seems every company in Japan overlooks Joe. Even when he was putting on great matches as an ROH only guy, he was curtain jerking in Zero One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTQ Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Is there a reason Samoa Joe isn't working as a top gaijin in NOAH? I don't know if it applies for NOAH, but when the question came up regarding why Joe didn't wrestle in New Japan, it was because he had the 'stench' of Zero One. It was to do with Joe first wrestling in Japan in what was considered a lower level promotion and for some reason that made those in New Japan not keen on bringing Joe in. I think the deal , at least what used to be the deal, is that the top Japanese groups had the mentality that if you wanted to work for them you would wait for them to call rather than going to one of the smaller groups first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I think at this point, it has to do with him being signed with TNA. I believe I've heard that, and it makes sense that he couldn't do both, assuming he was expected to be a full-timer in NOAH. There seemed to be some interest on NOAH's part, judging by Akiyama name-dropping Joe as a possible GHC title challenger (it might have been pure bullshitting, but obviously they must think somewhat highly of him to even mention him in that context). There's definitely more prestige to be had in NOAH, but I'm not so sure it'd be as financially rewarding as his current situation, given that he'd have less free time to work indy dates if he was touring in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I think the money for gaijin now relative to what's available on the TNA & indy route is radically different now compared to what that same match was in the early 90s. It's not just at the Hansen, Gordy, Doc, Vader level, but also for the Kroffat & Furnas level. Joe likely can do well enough here, and control his own bookings, that Japan money isn't a major incentive. The business there has also changed. No one is getting the push that Hansen, Vader, Gordy and Doc were. Nor is there the comfort level that a job you have this year will be there for the next four as long as you stay clean. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Allegedly, Morishima has improved greatly since then to the point that he's the best heavyweight in the world. Erm, I wouldn't put too much stock in that, given that Meltzer would probably point to the Misawa match as one piece of evidence that he was the best heavyweight in the world this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Erm, I wouldn't put too much stock in that, given that Meltzer would probably point to the Misawa match as one piece of evidence that he was the best heavyweight in the world this year. Dave's comments about Morishima are far more recent than the Misawa match. It's something he's been talking about more in the past 2-3 months. I'm assuming that Morishima has gotten a lot better (allegedly) in the past few months. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 The Misawa-Morishima match was on March 5 and it wasn't until recently that Dave satrted hyping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 The Misawa/Morishima match isn't great. Suprisingly good by Misawa's recent standards is a better way to describe it, but I wouldn't put it in my Top 10 Puro matches of the year, and I've only seen about 15 in total. Nagata/Bernard kills it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DylanWaco Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 I don't even think Morishima/Misawa is a good match. Misawa looks horribly old and the ending and really everything after the "dramatic" big move on the floor comes off as really phony to me. It's just not a match I "get". I don't blame Morishima at all for that though. Morishima was however incredibly great in the tag match with Rikio v. KentaFuji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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