Bix Posted June 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Ken Wayne handled himself really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Animal hasn't been pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I don't know if Meltzer counts, but he was able to hold his own (while looking like he was hit by a bus) against a windbag like John Gibson who was trying to interrupt him every 5 seconds with the "OMG STEROIDS~!" bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Ross is an embarassment. Â Â John Honestly, excluding Jericho and maybe Bret, what public wrestling figure that has spoken on this hasn't been? Â My point - Jimbo is always a fucking embarassment. It's not just that piece. Talk about a loathsome wrestling personality. Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 The WON is exceptionally well reported this week. Not easy reading, and doesn't pull any punches. Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOwnSummer Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I don't recall ever reading anything really negative about Ross as a person before this thread, did I miss something major? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 The WON is exceptionally well reported this week. Not easy reading, and doesn't pull any punches. Â Â John Any chance of a scan-and-post on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Hehe, John is the wrong guy to ask for that. He's pretty strongly of the belief that because Meltzer provides so much news to us and that it drives message board discussion, that we shouldn't do things like that. Â However, I will go through the WON when it arrives and summarize any key points that I don't think have been covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 What Loss said. I hate that people scan and circulate the WON. Â That may surprise people who've seen me be critical of Dave over the years, or actually argue with Dave on boards (and we've had some good ones). Or who've seen my indifference to the rather large trade of wrestling tapes/dvds that goes on, many of which I willingly buy/get. Â But Dave provides a valuable service to wrestling fans, and has for close to 25 years. He couldn't do it for free. Â Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 So obviously the wrestlers are never going to unionize. What are the chances of all the widows, divorced wives, released divas, etc. coming together and forming an organization to put outside pressure on WWE to clean up? Just forming the organization would give them lots of attention, and they'd act as a watchdog group and keep the seedy wrestling stuff visible in the media. Â With Debra speaking up and women like Debbie Hernandez following suit, it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere hasn't entertained this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hehe, John is the wrong guy to ask for that. He's pretty strongly of the belief that because Meltzer provides so much news to us and that it drives message board discussion, that we shouldn't do things like that.  However, I will go through the WON when it arrives and summarize any key points that I don't think have been covered. I only ask because I'm not re-subscribing just to get a copy of this issue. (I've already got about 4 years or so of them in my file cabinet, plus the McMahon Steroid Trial issue as my back-issue of choice when I first started my subscription.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 You can order issues as singles. Â I don't recall ever reading anything really negative about Ross as a person before this thread, did I miss something major? I've never heard a fan who's met him say anything nice about him or it being a pleasant meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 WON highlights from MJ Styles at the F4W board  "Dave confirmed he used a form of the Crippler Crossface on Daniel. This is interesting since Bryan was adamant that the story was bullshit. Apparently investigators found marks on the boys arm and neck that they didn't understand and upon watching a tape of a Benoit match and seeing the move it made sense. They just said it was a "choke" as to not further sensationalize an already sensationalized story.  -Dave said Bryan was closer to Benoit (he found his writing hilarious) then he was and that Dave hardly ever talked to Chris (while Bryan seemed to indicate semi regular contact). Thought that was interesting as we rib Bryan about getting all his sources through Dave but I never thought he'd have more access to someone like Benoit then Dave.  -Benoit got a prescription for the anti-depressant Xanax at the doctor's visit on Friday.  -Benoit started going downhill after Eddy died because he lost the one guy who he could confide in and shared his problems with. Apparently close friends always knew Benoit had the same problems as Eddy (pills, etc.) and suggested Benoit seriously needed to see a therapist but no one suggested it since he wasn't the type to be open to that sort of thing.  -Apparently the death of Johnny Grunge hit Benoit even harder then Eddy since they were neighbors and him and Nancy fighting was somewhat common and he'd be the one to come over and defuse situations and make Chris laugh. After he died, Chris didn't have that buffer when things got out of control.  -Chris and Nancy had recently separated for a period of time, and Dave received a change of address form for an apartment different then their house (I believe Bryan mentioned he got a different address too).  -Chris recently opened up a new life insurance claim naming his ex-wife and his older 2 kids as the beneficiaries and refused to include Nancy or Daniel.  -When there were rumors of him leaving for TNA, Dave asked him about it and Chris was paranoid thinking Dave had inside info that WWE was going to release him. He apparently may have thought ECW was a demotion and the next step would be out the door. He was reportedly obsessed with establishing himself at the HHH/HBK level. He had grown increasingly paranoid that someone was out to get him and didn't let Nancy leave the house at night or Daniel to play outside and would take different routes from the airport home each time in case he was being followed.  -Nancy confided to a friend in wrestling days before the murders that she feared for her life and the friend told her to go take Daniel to her parents place in Florida (as she had done before when Chris became violent) but she didn't this time. Apparently she had a lockbox at the bank with notes indicating if something happened to her, it was Chris.  -Theory is that she told him she was leaving him for good and taking Daniel and that's when he snapped on her. Loved his son and when she filed for divorce all he wanted was joint custody. Theory is he killed Daniel because in his mind he couldn't bare to let him be alone without his parents and in his condition so it was a "mercy killing".  -Someone in WWE informed Dave before the RAW show that Chris had killed them, but others in the company were unaware but at least someone high up knew before the tribute show was put on the air.  -Dave says he can't write a proper obit/career retrospect and doesn't know if he ever will." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 -Someone in WWE informed Dave before the RAW show that Chris had killed them, but others in the company were unaware but at least someone high up knew before the tribute show was put on the air. This will be a HUGE mess for WWE if this becomes public knowledge. I hate to sound alarmist but this is so far beyond the usual "cover up something potentially bad for business" wrestling bullshit that I really see this becoming the one thing that could potentially bring down WWE as we know it, or at least open a lot of people's eyes. Â Of course that being said, WWE will cover it up and most media outlets will probably never investigate since it's not as lurid as tales of roid rage or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teke184 Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 "Dave confirmed he used a form of the Crippler Crossface on Daniel. This is interesting since Bryan was adamant that the story was bullshit. Apparently investigators found marks on the boys arm and neck that they didn't understand and upon watching a tape of a Benoit match and seeing the move it made sense. They just said it was a "choke" as to not further sensationalize an already sensationalized story.This story just gets fucking weirder and weirder.  I'd say this officially retires the Crippler Crossface as a move within US wrestling, as it was likely on the way out because of its association with Benoit BEFORE it turned up as a murder method.  This also adds a new level of sickness to the photoshops floating around of a Benoit crossface with Daniel's head photoshopped in over the other wrestler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 No wonder Dave Meltzer is worried about an ensuing media frenzy. We all remember the bad publicity WWE got when lawyers have used the imitating pro wrestling defence for juveniles who murder younger kids. It will be even worse when the media latches on to the story that Benoit used his finishing hold to murder his son. And that isn't mentioning all the other lurid details about his growing paranoia and depression that WWE did nothing to tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Lots of interesting stuff there, but the perscription for Xanax is interesting to me as anti-depressants have been linked to Mania many times in the past, and it is espcially bad when you cycle on and off. It would be interesting to hear if that was the case with Benoit. Â Once again I had no clue how close Benoit was to Grunge and it definately sounds like Grunge may have been the primary force stopping this from occuring before. Â Also I want to add that is really incredible how far ahead the wrestlling media has been on this story than the MSM, even with crime scene details...which leads me to believe that there were people in the WWE who knew alot more than they were initially letting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Can someone confirm the anti-depressant for sure? Some recaps of the WON article are saying Xanax. Some are saying Zoloft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Everything I've seen said Xanax. Which makes sense, cuz that really is some evil shit. It can cause severe mood swings, like REALLY severe, and is terribly addictive. I've known more than a couple people who ate them literally ten at a time, and devoted half their fucking lives to just finding and buying more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Everything I saw said Xanax as well, until I read a different recap that said Zoloft. These are both anti-depressants, but they are both different, and I am hoping someone who read the WON article can confirm 100% what Meltzer said. Â If not, when my WON arrives, I will confirm in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Just a side note I guess. 24/7 has deleted all of the programs that have Benoit on it. So Monday Night Wars and Wrestlemania 23 got axed. Should be interesting to see when they update the MNW show and if Benoit will be on it or edited out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Here in Pittsburgh all the shows that were supposed to be taken down are still up. I can pretty much picture the folks that run the VOD service here getting the memo to remove stuff and being all "LOLZ, no". Unless the wrong show is being broadcast, they never remove shows early. Â I really hope this was just a one week thing and there's not going to be an effort to erase Benoit from history. But then the WM XX DVD listing on wwe.com has the main event as HHH vs HBK so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I imagine they'll just hold back on MNW for a few weeks and not edit him out. They could only get away with it for so long before he was too important a part of the shows. I have no problem with them yanking his DVD and never selling it again though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 You know, considering his history, Superstar Graham was both the best and worst guest they could have had on tonight's WOL. Certainly no one can speak more on the mental strain caused by the business and the effects of drugs, but maybe they could have had someone on who didn't participate in an embarrassing campaign against Vince that probably ended up enabling him to continue WWF/E's policies of implicitly allowing steroid/HGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Also, at this point Billy Graham is basically a paid for WWE shill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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