Comments that don't warrant a thread

[MikeCampbell]

Scott Keith on finisher theft in early 00s WWF main events:

 

In my very humble opinion, the practice came from Japan because guys cared enough to watch tapes and learn new stuff at that point, and it died out because the management style changed with Johnny Ace’s takeover and WWE-trained newcomers basically just do what they’re told without desire to branch out and expand their horizons. And I’m actually quite a fan of finisher theft — it adds heat to the finish by making it a personal thing. Finishers are (or at least, used to be) a very personal thing for the guys, which is why you’d get Rick Rude’s Rude Awakening changing from a DDT in the NWA to a neckbreaker when he jumped to the WWF so as not to step on Jake Roberts’ toes. So if Steve Austin is suddenly busting out a Rock Bottom, fans are gonna be like “Oh man, it’s on now!” and it’s easy heat. Kurt Angle took it a step further, actually lifting entire chunks of moveset from guys as he evolved, which I always thought was pretty neat until he went insane.

What?

 

I know what he's getting at with the Austin/Rock example, but other than that, I have no idea.

[sek69]

I see he's learned to add "in my opinion" before spouting his usual ridiculous bullshit in order to have the ready-made defense when someone calls him on it/laughs in his face about it.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

Never seen this before but it's awesome. What a defense.

What's the story here?

[MikeCampbell]

Hardcore Holly is supposedly in danger of being released. I won't miss seeing him on my TV, but you'd think someone with his toughness would be a good fit for helping the developmental guys get ready.

[Loss]

If Cornette can't slap trainees, Holly shouldn't be able to beat them up.

[kjh]

Yeah, I don't see the relationship between being tough and being a good trainer. If anything the converse is closer to being true, as often the tough veteran is bitter and jealous that he's been put out to pasture as a trainer, while these youngsters who have never paid their dues like he had to and can't work as well as he can are taking his old spot on the roster. So the pissed off veteran takes out his frustrations on his helpless trainees. Do we need to risk Hardcore Holly running off the next Batista in WWE developmental or becoming so loathed that half the trainees are constantly complaining to John Laurinaitis about their treatment, so they have to start taping his training sessions to shut them up?

[Bix]

Also what makes Holly so extra "tough," cheapshotting and sandbagging trainees and younger wrestlers who trusted him with their safety?

[MikeCampbell]

Honestly, I don't know if Holly would be any good as a trainer. I seem to recall him on Tough Enough II, but nothing especially sticks out about him. I was thinking he'd be a good fit in developmental more along the lines of having a grizzled tough guy vet who can potentially weed out those who can't hack it. If I'm wrong, then show him the door.

[Bix]

Random question: How many misspelled title belts have there been?

 

Maryland Championship Wrestling had the "Crusierweight" Title.

 

The LPWA had multiple "Womem's" titles.

 

Any others?

[Slasher]

Honestly, I don't know if Holly would be any good as a trainer. I seem to recall him on Tough Enough II, but nothing especially sticks out about him. I was thinking he'd be a good fit in developmental more along the lines of having a grizzled tough guy vet who can potentially weed out those who can't hack it. If I'm wrong, then show him the door.

I don't understand the practice of "weeding out" people. All it is doing is scaring off guys who could eventually turn into wrestlers worth having. Wrestling has a bad name already, it doesn't need some bitter redneck hammering on people to get them running away and thinking wrestling is awful.

[MikeCampbell]

I don't understand the practice of "weeding out" people. All it is doing is scaring off guys who could eventually turn into wrestlers worth having. Wrestling has a bad name already, it doesn't need some bitter redneck hammering on people to get them running away and thinking wrestling is awful.

It ensures that the WWE is investing it's time and money into people worth having on the roster and who are committed to the WWE. Do you think that Vince would have invested so much into Brock Lesnar if he knew that he'd be gone after less than two years? The same thing with Krissy Vaine and whatever her boyfriend's name was.

[Slasher]

Don't you think that if this technique worked so well, that Lesnar and Vaine wouldn't have gotten as far as they did in WWE? And from what I read in interviews and such, most of the time, the problem people have is with the travelling schedule. Tell me how does Holly beating the shit out of you prepare you for the travel?

[Resident Evil]

Also what makes Holly so extra "tough," cheapshotting and sandbagging trainees and younger wrestlers who trusted him with their safety?

If you doubt his toughness Bix, go up and test him.

 

 

I don't agree with some of the things Holly does either.

 

But I think his toughness rep comes from those who know him, being able to take a stiff beating in the ring, being a wrestler for so long, having gone through some serious complications from injuries, wrestling with a broken arm against Angle/that match where he had the severe back cut and so on.

[Bix]

Also what makes Holly so extra "tough," cheapshotting and sandbagging trainees and younger wrestlers who trusted him with their safety?

If you doubt his toughness Bix, go up and test him.

You know that wasn't my point. His experience w/ trainees, younger guys, etc. is cheapshotting and sandbagging them. That makes him a coward.

 

Is he physically tougher than the average guy, or maybe even the average wrestler? I'm sure. That doesn't make him a good trainer or anything.

[Loss]

Don't you think that if this technique worked so well, that Lesnar and Vaine wouldn't have gotten as far as they did in WWE? And from what I read in interviews and such, most of the time, the problem people have is with the travelling schedule. Tell me how does Holly beating the shit out of you prepare you for the travel?

Agreed. They invest their time in people that are tall and muscular, and don't in those who aren't. The rest is just fucking with people for fun and serves no purpose outside of that.

[sek69]

I guess there could be an argument made that dealing with assholes like Bob Holly as a rookie would prepare you for a career full of dealing with bitter old never-weres upset that they've been reduced to grooming the next generation of stars who destined for success he never had. If I had to spend my peak athletic years as Sparky Plugg, I'd probably be a miserable bastard too.

[sek69]

Also, today's "Scott Keith is a moron" segment:

 

Oh, apparently Kane murdered Rey Mysterio and then defiled his dead body before stealing his mask. Better have a match to decide that feud.

 

Freddie Prinze = WORTH EVERY PENNY. And people wonder why I don’t watch this show anymore.

Of course, as several commenters on his blog pointed out, Freddie's part of the Smackdown team.

 

I'm still amazed so many people treat this guy like the pinnacle of wrestling knowledge.

[Loss]

It's also weird that he still doesn't really understand the role of the writer. Once you get past Gewirtz and Hayes, it seems to be more like, "We want Kane to murder Rey Misterio and steal his mask. Script lines for the people involved to say" and not so much "Help us think of ideas to build to a feud between Rey and Kane" ...

[Johnny Sorrow]

If you doubt his toughness Bix, go up and test him.

Hardcore Holly vs. The Bix. Book this now, wildpegaguy

[Slasher]

It's not that tough beating on kids that knows they can't fight back without risking their jobs. I'd definitely walk up to Holly and punch him in the face, reputation be damned.

[kjh]

Don't you think that if this technique worked so well, that Lesnar and Vaine wouldn't have gotten as far as they did in WWE? And from what I read in interviews and such, most of the time, the problem people have is with the travelling schedule. Tell me how does Holly beating the shit out of you prepare you for the travel?

Agreed. They invest their time in people that are tall and muscular, and don't in those who aren't. The rest is just fucking with people for fun and serves no purpose outside of that.

Even the tall and muscular people they fuck with, if they have the audacity to ask for more time off or quibble about their push and payoffs. Really Lesnar and Lashley quitting, two guys with options outside of wrestling, proves that WWE should treat their wrestlers better, not do a better job of weeding out the people who wrestling is just a job to and wasn't their lifelong dream. That's part of the reason why developmental is in such a shambles at the moment, as they are no longer recruiting athletes out of college, leaving developmental full of sons of ex wrestlers with almost no experience and indy guys who tend to lack the size they crave and work a style they dislike.

[tlk23]

sources: Wrestling Observer Newsletter, www.pwtorch.com

 

-- Hardcore Holly, who has been with WWE for nearly 15 years, is said to be on the chopping block. Holly's no longer being used and may not be brought back this time around. The feeling is that it would take someone such as Undertaker to speak up for Holly to give him another shot in WWE. Vince McMahon is said to be indifferent to Holly in that he's kept him around for so long, but has never really had any plans to push him. Holly was tapped to be in a tag team feuding with Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes, but the feeling is that he wouldn't get the young duo over in the right way. Basically, he'd lose in the end, but make them look bad. Holly has a rep of working very stiff with newcomers and has the old-school mentality that the youngsters have to prove they can survive in the tough profession of professional wrestling. At this point, his only role is to make the newly pushed stars better than they are. Furthermore, Holly did some taped promos before the Cody Rhodes turn, but WWE decided against airing them because they're weren't good enough. Holly turns 46 years old in January.

 

-- Monday's edition of Raw drew a 3.1 rating, a 10 percent drop from the 3.43 figure scored last week. The first hour rating was quite lackluster as the show drew less than a 3.0 rating -- a 2.98. However, the second hour drew a 3.18 rating to bring the overall rating up. The show was watched by 300,000 less viewers than last week.

 

-- Apparently by mistake, last week WWE.com had the profile of Super Crazy in both the SmackDown and ECW sections. His profile was eventually deleted from the ECW section, so that makes him a member of the SmackDown roster. As part of the 2008 WWE Supplemental Draft, Super Crazy was drafted to the ECW brand back in June, but he never debuted on their show. Super Crazy returned to television on SmackDown last week, losing to The Brian Kendrick.

 

-- Former WWE star Shannon Moore has posted a blog on his MySpace page regarding his recent release from World Wrestling Entertainment:

 

Update on Shannon leaving WWE http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...logID=423449870

 

What's up to all of you that have been by my side for the last 16 years. What I mean by that is thanks for the support. Not as in goodbye, as in stick around because things are going to get fun. The question in a lot of your heads is what is next for Shannon Moore. Where do I start? I am open to wrestle anywhere that I want to as long as it's not on TV. I have already set some things up so I could be coming to a town near you soon. I will put a list of wrestling dates up so you guys will know where to catch me. If you are wondering how to book me if you can't get me directly contact Bill at [email protected] for booking info. The action in the ring will still be there. GasChamber Ink has been on a rapid growth in the last year and a half and I have not been able to sling ink because I have been so busy on the road sense doors opened. That's one thing that I will be working on is Tattooing. So all of you wondering if you could get tattooed by me, now will be your chance. Check out my Tattoo Studio at www.gaschamberink.com. Another project called the Hardy Show that Myself, Matt, and Jeff started when we were away from WWE the last time will kick back into full force. It was much recognized by people and I am going to do a lot of cool stuff to promote it sense I will have no limitations on what I can do for the Hardy Show. If you have not got to take a look at the Hardy Show yet I ask you to please check it out at www.thehardyshow.com. I have feelers in other areas of entertainment that I'm wanting to do but don't have no feedback to update you all with, but as soon as the info is in I will let you all know what is going on. I had hell of a time with the WWE and want to say thanks for the opportunitys that they gave me in the past. To all of the talent that I worked with while I was there I want to say thank you for the good times and the bad. I will keep you posted on different topics and can't thank all of you enough. Shannon Moore will still live and entertain to the fullest and I am ready for one hell of a ride.

 

2BME

Shannon Moore

 

-- Matt Hardy has posted a blog on his MySpace page regarding his upcoming match with Mark Henry at SummerSlam. He also talks about the ECW ratings improving since his move to the brand. Matt wrote:

"As you all know, I have the biggest match of my career coming up at Summerslam. I have a chance to become the ECW Heavyweight Champion as I take on the current champ, Mark Henry. It's definitely gonna be an uphill battle, but I like the odds and pressure against me-it makes me perform better. And on top of that, I've got billions of MFers (Mattitude Followers) that have got my back and believe in me. That's MUCH stronger than anything Mark Henry and Tony Atlas have to offer. I've seen a few "MATT FOR CHAMP" signs already, please keep the support coming. I've thoroughly enjoyed my ECW experience thus far-it's been an honor to be one of the high-lights of the show each and every week. Coincidentally, the ratings have improved by almost 50% since the Matt Hardy ECW era has begun, HAHA! Thanks for tuning in and supporting me every Tuesday night on Sci-Fi at 10 p.m." You can read the blog in its entirety at this link. http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...logID=422266851

 

-- On WWE.com, there's a new promotion for 10% off plus a free pack of WWE trading cards for all orders over $65 at the Shopzone website. In this banner advertisement for the promotion, an image of the trading card of the recently released Ashley Massaro is featured. http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/527...5271654/7846128

 

-- Last week's edition of SmackDown took a plunge in the ratings, scoring a lackluster 2.0 figure. This was the least watched non-holiday SmackDown of 2008.

 

-- At tonight's SmackDown taping in Norfolk, Virginia, WWE developmental wrestler Colt Cabana wrestled in a match. However, he may have been used as a mere enhancement wrestler. He wrestled under the name Scotty Goldman and lost to The Brian Kendrick in a standard match. After the match, Kendrick's bodyguard Ezekiel Jackson attacked Goldman, and that was the end of that. This was Cabana's first match in a WWE ring since signing with the company a few days after WrestleMania 23. Prior to his contract signing, Cabana worked a match or two on Heat as an enhancement worker, losing to "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan in one match. At WrestleMania 22, he made a minor appearance as one of the gangsters who rode a 1930s era car to the ring before John Cena made his lavish entrance. He was also dressed up in a tooth fairy outfit as a fan in the audience on the Halloween 2006 edition of ECW on Sci Fi. He was shown on camera a few times. After inking a deal with WWE, he showed up in Ohio Valley Wrestling before being moved to Florida Championship Wrestling, where's he's currently situated.

 

-- WWE developmental wrestler Bradley Jay also wrestled at tonight's SmackDown taping. He too worked as an enhancement worker, losing to Big Show in a quick match. Jay worked under the name Ryan Reddick and lost to Big Show after a knockout punch. Jay appeared as an enhancement worker on a few episodes of Heat last year, and worked some house shows and dark matches last summer. Bradley Jay is one of the few holdovers from OVW as he's been in developmental longer than everyone else besides Eric Perez, and perhaps Nic Nemeth, although he was eventually called up. Jay signed his developmental contract in December 2005 and still has yet to be called up to the main roster.

 

-- Could Mick Foley already be through with World Wrestling Entertainment? Mick Foley did not appear at tonight's SmackDown taping in Norfolk, Virginia. Tazz took his place alongside Jim Ross for the second week in a row. Also, Matt Striker joined Todd Grisham at the announcers table for tonight's edition of ECW on Sci Fi. It was believed that Foley was only going to be held off television for one week to sell his beating from Edge, but by the looks of things, the removal of Foley from the announcers' booth could be permanent. Last week, Foley told the Long Island Press that there was a good chance he would not be renewing his contract with WWE after it expired on September 1, 2008 because the announcing job wasn't working out too well.

 

Lance Storm Blog

Brock Lesnar

August 11, 2008

 

After watching UFC 87 this past weekend I thought should talk a little about Brock Lesnar this week. Brock Lesnar is the biggest MMA PPV draw for me right now. I’ve only paid for 2 MMA PPVs in my life and both featured Brock Lesnar. The obvious appeal is that I know the guy and used to work with him in WWE but that’s not the whole picture. As I’ve mentioned several times before I’m fairly new to the MMA game, and far from an expert, and because of this I enjoy watching fighters that are new to the game.

 

When I watch a guy like Brock Lesnar I’ve seen everything he’s done and know all there is to know about him. I’ve seen every fight Brock has had, so I understand him and want to see how he progresses. Heath Herring on the other hand, I’ve heard about and have seen a couple of his fights but when you look at his career of 42 fights I’ve barely scratched the surface of it and thus am not really qualified to form much of an opinion of him as a fighter. For the price of 2 or at the most 3 PPV events per year I will be able to see Brock Lesnar’s entire career, which I intend to do.

 

With Saturday’s big win Brock’s MMA career record goes to 2-1, which in a strange coincidence is my record over Brock Lesnar in pro-wrestling. I got to wrestle Brock on three WWE house shows when he was first brought up from developmental. These three matches may have been Brock’s first WWE matches and I think they had a lot in common with the fights in his MMA career.

 

After the first match I had with Brock it was obvious that he was a tremendous athlete but he was very green and made several rookie mistakes. He was easy to work with and had talent but had a few holes in his game that he needed to plug. After that first match I talked with Brock, coaching him and pointing out things he needed to change and improve on and I could tell Brock was really paying attention and wanted to learn. The next night we had our second match and everything single point I made the previous night was improved upon. That night I pointed out a few other aspects and the next night he again improved unbelievably.

 

Brock was a prodigy in pro-wrestling, and after watching his match with Heath Herring, this past Saturday, I suspect he is in MMA as well. This fight was so important to Brock’s career and in my opinion Brock did exactly what he needed to do. I will grant you finishing the fight on his own without letting it go to the judges would have been better but I don’t know how anyone could see UFC 87 as anything but a complete positive for Brock Lesnar.

 

Heath Herring was an accomplished fighter with 42 professional fights and was a legit threat to Brock Lesnar, and in his 3rd MMA fight Brock Lesnar completely dominated him. Brock dropped Herring with his first punch and hit him so hard it knocked him head over heels backwards. Brock took Herring down virtually at will and at no point in the fight was Brock Lesnar not in control let alone in trouble of losing. Heath Herring looked to be in great shape and had 20 times the experience of Brock Lesnar and did not manage to mount any offense what so ever. That’s frightening!

 

In this fight Brock showed far more patient and ability to control his opponent than in his first fight and in going the distance he showed he has good enough conditioning to go the distance without running out of gas. This is likely a good thing because until Brock learns some submissions there is a good chance he will go the distance while controlling and dominating opponents, assuming his opponent can survive the punches and knees Brock throws from the ground; OUCH! I would imagine Heath herring is still pretty damn sore from the beating he took Saturday night.

 

Brock Lesnar is definitely for real, and I would imagine this is just the tip of the iceberg of what he can achieve. I still don’t think anyone realizes how explosively fast this guy is and with his learning curve he is going to be absolutely deadly in the years to come. It’s a good thing Pro-Wrestling is a work because if it wasn’t my 2-1 record against Brock would be a big 0-3.

 

Congratulations Brock, and continued success. It was a pleasure to know and work with you in WWE, and I look forward to following your UFC career. You are very much living up to the character and promos we used to joke with you about in WWE. You are the white Incredible Hulk: “BROCK SMASH!!!!!!!!”

 

Lance Storm

[S.L.L.]

I don't understand the practice of "weeding out" people. All it is doing is scaring off guys who could eventually turn into wrestlers worth having. Wrestling has a bad name already, it doesn't need some bitter redneck hammering on people to get them running away and thinking wrestling is awful.

It ensures that the WWE is investing it's time and money into people worth having on the roster and who are committed to the WWE. Do you think that Vince would have invested so much into Brock Lesnar if he knew that he'd be gone after less than two years? The same thing with Krissy Vaine and whatever her boyfriend's name was.

 

Aside from what Slasher and Loss already said, I'd point out that Batista initially tried to get into wrestling through the WCW Power Plant, which was much closer in style to Japanese dojos and had more of an emphasis on "weeding out" people. Batista was one of the guys weeded out. Batista eventually came up through WWE developmental instead, and has become an effective and consistently over main event player, a good hand in the ring, and some degree of a drawing card. Explain to me how weeding out a guy like Batista in favor of wrestlers "worth having on the roster" like Sonny Siaki and Reno is a sign that that kind of mentality would "ensure that the WWE is investing it's time and money into people worth having on the roster".

[MikeCampbell]

Batista wasn't 'weeded out' the the sense that I'm talking about. They just flat out told him that he didn't have a future and to not come back. I'm talking about weeding out as in guys realizing that it's actually a tough business, and a lot more than just 'fake fighting.' Such as the guy on the first tough enough who wasn't willing to sacrifice time with his girlfriend. And again, I'll point out Brock Lesnar as an example. Vince pushed him huge from the get-go, he never drew big money, and he left after two years. Also Bobby Lashley. He wasn't as heavily pushed as Brock, but he still got a pretty big push, and he only lasted a year and a half. Krissy Vaine and Ryan Whatever, when they up and split, the overall feeling was that they wasted the WWE's time and money and their spots could have gone to others who'd have appreciated them.

 

I'm not saying that if Brock or Lashely had had a hardcore holly to deal with in OVW then they'd never have been called up, or that they'd not have quit. But rather that the WWE has a bit of history with people they invest a lot in to up and leave, and WWE doesn't make their investment back. Having a hardcore holly to deal with in developmental, I think, will give them a greater chance of not repeating this trend.

[Slasher]

No. The Batista story you told is absolutely not true. WCW trainers singled out Batista because he was one of the biggest guys in that class, to make an example out of him to everyone, that even the biggest guys are at wrestlers' mercy. It was not because they saw no potential. Or because he was told not to return. He went, saw how shitty the whole get up was, and left.

 

The fact you outright made up the story, tells me that I shouldn't waste any more time on you due to credibility issues. Thanks.