Ridiculous quotes from WO.com columnists

[Dan]

I'm going to pretend I didn't see those last two sentences. As for the rest - it's more ammo for wrestling ≠ boxing/MMA. I don't recall the greatest pro wres show ever getting consideration from the National Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.

[Eduardo]

Dave went on this odd rant on Observer radio that was basically the MMA equivalent of Jake Shields "disrespecting the boys in the back". Dave talked about how dare Shields go to UFC after Strikeforce put him on CBS twice and about him being a ratings bomb. Even threw in random praise for Leonard Garcia as to say Garcia is a company man that helps his promotion as oppose to Shields. Probably has something to do with Dave's buddy Frank Shamrock legitimately hating Shields. I understand criticisms about Shields for the post-fight brawl, but criticisms about Shields going for a better contract just felt weird.

[jdw]

Shields is no different from Brian Pillman using his leverage to get the best contract possible from the WCW vs WWF climant.

 

Can't blame Shields, especially if one assumes he pretty much locked up a deal before Dana put him on camera.

 

John

[kjh]

Shields is no different from Brian Pillman using his leverage to get the best contract possible from the WCW vs WWF climant.

 

Can't blame Shields, especially if one assumes he pretty much locked up a deal before Dana put him on camera.

There is one key difference to Brian Pillman in 1996. Shields is still under contract to Strikeforce for another couple of months. Pillman never appeared on WWF television while under contract to WCW. Probably the closest wrestling comparison is Mike Awesome turning up on Nitro while he was still ECW champion.

 

I don't blame Shields for taking the better contract and I'm sure Dave doesn't either. But he's right to point out that it was highly disrespectful to Strikeforce, the company that put him on the map, to appear on UFC programming with Dana White mouthing "I've got him" while he was still under contract to Strikeforce. Not to mention that such behaviour could open up UFC to a lawsuit from Strikeforce over contract tampering.

[jdw]

His contract expires, but I highly doubt he has a "fight" left on his contract. So in a sense he's a free agent already.

 

Bad form? Sure, a bit. But he's essentially done with Strikeforce. He's not going to fight for them again. It's pretty common for folks to look for other offers, including from their current employer, while still under contract.

 

It could open up UFC to a lawsuit. But they have plenty of other things at issue in trying to run a profitable/sustaining business than trying to throw a few million of legal fees at chasing UFC.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Mayhem Miller has already gone on record calling Jake a chickenshit and going to UFC instead of fighting him.

[jdw]

Mayhem would have more compelling smack if he hadn't just lost to Shields in a fight that wasn't terribly close other than the one choke. I think we also all know that Mayhem would give his left nut to fight again in UFC and have his "rematch" with Shields over there. So he'll be talking smack and cutting promos in the hopes that Dana signs him for a nice payday.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Scott Coker would commit suicide if UFC ran a Mayhem/Shields fight that was built off an angle off his own show.

[jdw]

Scott Coker would commit suicide if UFC ran a Mayhem/Shields fight that was built off an angle off his own show.

I don't think Dana is going to go after Mayhem anytime soon because he really hasn't proven anything other than he has a big mouth. *If* he goes on a little run of success in Strikeforce, Shields does well in UFC, and Mayhem keeps talking... then Dana will see a $$$ match and grab Mayhem.

 

But right now, Mayhem really comes off as Mitch Green cutting promos on Mike Tyson. It led to nothing.

 

John

[El-P]

The "TNA fires douchebag" headline was ridiculously great.

[tomk]

Scott Coker would commit suicide if UFC ran a Mayhem/Shields fight that was built off an angle off his own show.

I don't think Dana is going to go after Mayhem anytime soon because he really hasn't proven anything other than he has a big mouth. *If* he goes on a little run of success in Strikeforce, Shields does well in UFC, and Mayhem keeps talking... then Dana will see a $$$ match and grab Mayhem.

 

But right now, Mayhem really comes off as Mitch Green cutting promos on Mike Tyson. It led to nothing.

 

John

 

 

I'm not under the impression that as a promoter Dana White is half as smart as Bob Arum or Don King.

I can't imagine White not promoting Green v Tyson if given the opportunity. I imagine White would promote a Lalonde v Robinson rematch.

[KrisZ]

Dana White isn't even a Butch Lewis when it comes to promoting.

[jdw]

The difference is that Dana doesn't typically bring someone in with a "hot" storyline and throw them right into their hot opponent. They always seem to want to make people "prove" themselves in UFC, almost akin to the old WWF bullshit. So Dana isn't going to sign Mayhem to throw instantly at Shields. At the moment, is there any reason to think Mayhem could go very far in the UFC Middleweight division without getting his clock cleaned? At which point a Mayhem-Shields fight ends up headlinging Fight Night rather than in a selling position on a PPV.

 

That was my point: if Mayhem runs of some success in Strikeforce (such as beating Henderson), then sure... Dana & Co. will sign him for a match with Shields. But they'll also likely see both of them lose before it happens. At which point we're back to it being a TV match rather than a PPV drawing match.

 

Unless you all think Mayhem and Shields are far better than I do, with Shields quickly winning the Middleweight title and Mayhem working his way up to be what UFC considers a #1 contender. Sheilds may surprised me, but I just don't think Mayhem is any good. Given the way UFC books fights, Mayhem would quickly fall into the Chris Leban range... might actually start there.

 

John

[KrisZ]

They are going to book Shields vs. GSP anyway as soon as he signs.

[jdw]

Which means a Shields loss.

 

I also confess that I don't get why they would blow stealing another promotion's "middleweight champion" and having him job to your own welterweight champ. It's a but like Shinma stealing Rusher Kimura from IWE and booking him first to job to Tiger Mask.

 

Granted, you don't want to reward Silva with anything at the moment. But before Shields runs the risk of losing to anyone else, wouldn't you want to put him in with your own middleweight champ? He can always then move back down to his old welterweight.

 

So what you're basically telling me is that Shields-Mayhem *will* be a Fight Night match in 2 or so years.

 

John

[evilclown]

Shields will fight at welterweight in the UFC.

[jdw]

Understood that from Kriz.

 

My question: why don't you have *your* Middleweight Champ beat *their* Middleweght Champ before he moves down to Welterweight? That's the pro wrestling move, afterall. Setting aside the joke, it's a pretty standard promotional thing.

 

Was it simply a condition of Shields jumping: "I'll only jump if I don't have to fight Silva and I get a match with GSP?"

 

While you're here, Jon... with UFC now on Versus, and given the lack of the words "WEC" on the PPV, is there any move to roll WEC into UFC? Merge the WEC Lightweight title into the UFC one, and recognize the Featherweight and Bantamweight titles and move the divisions into UFC (let alone if they ever roll out a Flyweight division). How much $$$ did they whiz away by having Faber's prime basically given away on TV? Now they have Aldo and he's working on smaller PPVs rather tha getting built up on UFC cards.

 

Seems like it's time to do this.

 

John

[evilclown]

Understood that from Kriz.

 

My question: why don't you have *your* Middleweight Champ beat *their* Middleweght Champ before he moves down to Welterweight? That's the pro wrestling move, afterall. Setting aside the joke, it's a pretty standard promotional thing.

 

Was it simply a condition of Shields jumping: "I'll only jump if I don't have to fight Silva and I get a match with GSP?"

 

While you're here, Jon... with UFC now on Versus, and given the lack of the words "WEC" on the PPV, is there any move to roll WEC into UFC? Merge the WEC Lightweight title into the UFC one, and recognize the Featherweight and Bantamweight titles and move the divisions into UFC (let alone if they ever roll out a Flyweight division). How much $$$ did they whiz away by having Faber's prime basically given away on TV? Now they have Aldo and he's working on smaller PPVs rather tha getting built up on UFC cards.

 

Seems like it's time to do this.

 

John

I think it would be a great time. The bottom line is that TV contracts don't allow it right now. Too many fighters under contract and no place for them to compete. SPIKE doesn't want to pay for additional live events, but does want to maintain their exclusivity (except for the contracted exceptions).

 

Basically Zuffa needs the seven or eight WEC shows to keep the fighters active and to make sure they meet contractual obligations to the fighters. All bets are off for the WEC when they renegotiate tv deals. That will be tricky. SPIKE pays a premium to be THE UFC station. They don't want to share, but Zuffa will have to decide if they are being too tightly constrained by SPIKE.

[evilclown]

The thing with Shields is simpler. I don't think anyone but Dana thinks it is worth the effort to make some giant statement by beating "their" champion. In reality, most people don't even know they have competition, and less would if Dana didn't constantly bring it up.

 

When they try to prove the other guy isn't in the UFC's league, they are still competing with PRIDE. Takanori Gomi was brought in for the express purpose of fighting the everlasting battle with PRIDE's legacy.

[jdw]

Jon: when are the Spike contracts up? I'm trying to recall how UFC got on Versus even in limited fashion?

 

Let's say a chunk of the content on the WEC shows (i.e. the matches) were rolled into PPV's, Fight Night, UFC Live and the TUF Finals with the notion to better promote those fighters/classes and also make for improved cards. The truely "big" stuff would be on PPV, then the usual UFC pecking order on down through the other shows. Rather than 7-8 shows, how many would the UFC need to add to their programing?

 

Then again, every slot that WEC performers take on current UFC programing means someone in the lower ranks of the UFC gets bumped. But some of it easily resolves itself like the Lightweight division getting consolidated and the excess set free. It's largely two divisions being added to the roster, and handpicking the keepers of the Lightweight division.

 

John

[jdw]

BTW, last add Jon: where can we read your regular articles on MMA?

[evilclown]

BTW, last add Jon: where can we read your regular articles on MMA?

I wrote something last week that discusses this subject:

 

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/4/30/14396...7-5-why-merging

 

Right now I am writing articles for UGO.com, but the intent is to try and target casual fans, so it isn't as in depth as I'd like. I also ghostwrite a blog for a prominent MMA fighter, but can't really say much more about that. I'm looking for a new home for writing aimed at hardcore fans, but time is at a premium and money talks. I'd probably rather write a different kind of article, but business is business.

 

My new book is due out in December, an MMA Encyclopedia. After that, who knows. I am hoping to sign a new two-book contract shortly.

[evilclown]

I missed one of your questions. The UFC deal with SPIKE runs through 2011. They are very proactive though and have extended and altered their deal pretty regularly, so they may sign something well before it expires. I remember the initial deal called for just one season of TUF this year and one next year. They've added a season to each calender year in the meantime.

 

It's really a partnership both sides seem happy with. SPIKE loves being associated with the UFC and Zuffa likes having the ability to be flexible and air their little "Clash of the Champions" type shows any time a competitor has an event. That's why it will be so interesting to see what they do. They may stay, even if it limits growth. Which, frankly, is probably for the best. I think they are close to saturating the market and may end up being their own worst enemies.

[KrisZ]

It's going to be hard for UFC to go any other network because of Dana wanting total control of every production aspect of the show when the networks want to have their own control as well. Meltz talked about this last night and it's totally true especially with ESPN who when you get in bed with them, your power in production gets usurped almost completely.

[jdw]

It's going to be hard for UFC to go any other network because of Dana wanting total control of every production aspect of the show when the networks want to have their own control as well. Meltz talked about this last night and it's totally true especially with ESPN who when you get in bed with them, your power in production gets usurped almost completely.

I think the Spike deal has proved that they don't need to be on ESPN to do well.

 

Don't know if Dave talked about this or if Jon has run into anything on it, but I wonder if a potential outsider in the bidding would be TNT/TBS. The just made a major move to get the NCAA Tourney, including eventually getting the Championship Game on cable (which will be a first among major sporting events). They went balls out to get MLB, including cutting the cord with their *own* team broadcasts. The NBA is a massive part of the network. They appear to be very much angling to be a major player in the sporting world... that NCAA thing isn't any lightweight deal.

 

John