The ROH PPV

[sek69]

So the first ROH PPV was available on my PPV system today and I watched a full ROH show for the first time in a while (I've seen matches, but I don't thin I've seen a whole show since Punk left).

 

The card, for those who haven't seen it yet:

 

ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Takeshi Moreshima defeated B.J. Whitmer to retain the ROH World title..

ROH VS. NOAH MATCH: Naomichi Marafuj defeated Rocky Romero (representing the No Remorse Corpse)..

ROH TAG TITLE MATCH: The Briscoe Brothers defeated Claudio Castagnoli & Matt Sydal to retain the Tag Team titles..

MATCH: Roderick Strong (No Remorse Corpse) defeated Delirious.

MAIN EVENT: American Dragon & Takeshi Morishima defeated KENTA & Nigel McGuiness.

The first thing you're presented with is an "ROH" chant from the crowd. Chanting the promotion's name really irks me for some reason. It would happen during matches too. When someone nearly dies on an awesome highspot or hits a cool move it seems almost disrespectful to the wrestler to chant the promotion name. It's like if the old Techwood Studio crowd would have started an "NWA" chant during a Horseman beatdown.

 

The production was actually pretty good. You can tell it's not WWE, or even TNA, but it's not like it was embarrassing in any way. They seem to be a little too self conscious about getting the point across that they've had shows in other countries. I mean it's one thing to convey the message that your title has been defended around the world, but after the third or fourth mention of Japan I could see how a non fan would start to think it was typical pro wrestling bullshit. It's probably a small point to quibble about, but I don't know why seemingly every smaller wrestling promotion has to have some Napoleonic complex.

 

Was it some optical illusion or something I've never noticed before that the ring seemed to be absolutely gigantic? Maybe my eyes are just used to tiny WWE rings.

 

Moreshima was much more impressive here. The match I saw of him vs KENTA in Japan was pretty blah, they were still in the "Moreshima is the new Hansen" phase and it was just him killing KENTA with lariats and KENTA being all "RAR YOU CANNOT KILL MY FIGHTING SPIRIT" (until he finally did). The tag match was a lot better, Moreshima was busting out the fat guy aerial offense which is always surprising when you're not expecting it.

 

The tag title match was good, if nothing else for Matt Sydal's willingness to die for our entertainment. I'm not quite on the "BRISCOES BEST TEAM EVAR" train yet, but they seem to be way better than any other team in ROH right now.

 

Also, has Adam Pearce always been that good at promos? What made it even better was you didn't even realize till later that he really didn't say anything.

 

The whole "Tank and Sara do squats" skit seemed pretty riveted on as an "HAY GUYS WE HAVE WOMENS TOO" moment to any WWE fan who may have wondered across the show.

 

"No Remorse Corps" isn't that bad of a stable/team name. "The Resilence" is. It sounds like something you'd need antibiotics for.

 

Speaking of, this was my first experience with Roderick Strong. His gimmick is he has 1,001 ways to do a backbreaker? Really? I guess he'd be huge in Mexico. Part of me was wondering if it wasn't some bizarre rib on Randy Orton and his love of the chinlock to have a guy be a master of a transition hold.

 

One thing I noticed, and this isn't just a ROH thing, is the announcers. Not that they're bad or anything, but there was just something about them I couldn't put my finger on. Then I realized what it was: They're way too young sounding. Most indy feds have this problem, and there's probably not a lot they can do about it. One thing the announcer does is convey to the viewer that of all the shit you've watched in your life, this shit you're watching now is the best. That message is best conveyed by an older (or at least older sounding) dude who has that pull of someone who's seen it all so you can believe it when he tells you how great what you're seeing is. World Class had Bill Mercer, the NWA had Gordon Solie, Stampede had Ed Whalen, UWF/WCW/WWF had Jim Ross. It just doesn't sound convincing when the announcers look and sound like two guys who could have been pulled out of the crowd and put in suits.

 

Marafuji vs Romero was proabably my favorite match of the show, despite the ROH fans doing their best to annoy me with how they mark over anyone Japanese as if it was the reincarnation of Giant Baba, but that horse gets beat enough.

 

All in all I have to say I enjoyed the show, and I'll probably buy the next show in September. Probably the best ROH could hope for in a PPV debut.

[CodySave]

I also watched this recently. Like sek69, I haven't seen a full show since...well on DVD, I have no idea. Perhaps Kobashi vs Joe? I did see ROH live in St. Paul in April.

 

Overall, I was pretty impressed and I don't think any wrestling fan would think they wasted $10 after watching this. That being said, there were a number of little production quirks that annoyed me. When you watch WWE or even TNA, you hardly notice the VERY brief transitions between scenes. After watching this, you realize even a slight visual transition into the next scene makes worlds of difference. I think every time they showed highlights of a wrestler during introductions, it would quickly cut back to the ring. For me, it cut so fast that it was a noticeable gap in production that you probably don't notice is normally present but is really noticeable when it's gone.

 

So, production wise, this isn't even at the level of the ECW PPV's, but a few minor changes would help the PPV's in the long run. Most of the changes I had in mind can be done under ROH's budget as well - I assume they just don't have a really knowledgeable production staff, at least by TV/PPV prgoramming standards.

 

As for the matches, one thing that stuck out to me is that every match was a sprint for the most part (except parts of Strong vs Delirious). Watching a ROH event live is a phenomenal experience, and a whole card of sprint matches can be great to watch in a live setting. However, I felt like I needed a break after the Briscoes tag team match because the show was moving at such a quick pace. In recent years, I've definitely developed an appreciation for WWE's ability to throw a slowed-down/throwaway match between matches people actually bought the PPV to see.

 

The Briscoes really throw me for a loop. On one hand, I don't like that their matches are simply full of moves that don't build on one another. On the other hand, I can't say I've haven't seen a recent Briscoes match that didn't entertain the hell out of me. I've decided that instead of using anything that remotely resembles typical "wear down a limb" psychology, their gimmick is to just beat the hell out of people with everything they have until they knock them out for a pin. I think they're the best team in the world as far as double team moves are considered, but I wouldn't say they're the best in the world at tag team wrestling. I'd love to see them against the current Hardys in a WWE match though. I think the Hardys could reign them in so they only throw half the high-impact moves they usually do for double the overall meaning.

 

Matt Sydal and Claudio Castagnoli are a really good team in their own right. Sydl looked phenomenal. I loved the brawl at the end with El Generico and Kevin Steen.

 

God damn, Adam Pearce caught a spectacular promo, and even better, like sek69 said, I'm not even sure what he was talking about. Apparently he knows Whitmer is dperessed that he's a loser and is trying to help him. Are his promos always that good? If I saw him cut a promo like that every other week on TV, he'd be my favorite wrestler.

 

I've never seen Larry Sweeney in the sports agent role before this, and he pulls it off just as well as you'd imagine. If male managers weren't a thing of the past, he'd be managing on WWE TV right now.

 

Also, I think Rocky Romero is actually really, really good. He was excellent here and he was awesome when I saw him live. Where does all the hate he gets stem from? The top rope cross armbreaker was one of the most spectacular moves on the whole PPV.

 

The main event was good, but by that point, I was tired from everything that happened before it. Which is odd, because looking at the results there were only five matches, but the show moved so, so quickly. Some of this has to do with the production issues I wrote about above.

 

Typically I hate B.J. Whitmer, but his quick squash to Morishima worked really well in showing what Morishima brings to the table. I don't think I've ever seen a a match that short with so many 2.9 counts though.

 

I was actually impressed with Prazak's and Leonard's commentary. The definitely could pull off excitement better though. Usually I'm a big proponent for the "face/heel" announce team, but with ROH's dynamic of fans cheering everbody, it wouldn't work as well.

 

I know they had Prazak list off all the upcoming events, but I'm shocked they didn't show a graphic with all the upcoming events.

 

It's definitely worth the $10 to spend on it. Hopefully, the $10 PPV's catch on with fans because in all seriousness, with the help of advertising, I think you could get many more people to pay $10 for a ROH PPV than $30 for a TNA PPV. Did inDemand and Dish advertise this PPV at all? I didn't see anything on Dish advertising it.

[Jingus]

I mean it's one thing to convey the message that your title has been defended around the world, but after the third or fourth mention of Japan I could see how a non fan would start to think it was typical pro wrestling bullshit. It's probably a small point to quibble about, but I don't know why seemingly every smaller wrestling promotion has to have some Napoleonic complex.

Yeah, I've complained a lot about that on ROH(and other feds)'s commentary. Hey guys, we've already bought your damn show, you don't need to keep yammering about how your company is the best in the world and celebrates real wrestling and sports entertaiment sucks and yadda yadda yadda SHUT UP AND CALL THE FUCKING MATCH.

 

Was it some optical illusion or something I've never noticed before that the ring seemed to be absolutely gigantic? Maybe my eyes are just used to tiny WWE rings.

Huh? WWE ring is a 24-footer, one of the biggest in the world. It's probably more that the ROH roster is just that loaded with small guys.

 

Speaking of, this was my first experience with Roderick Strong. His gimmick is he has 1,001 ways to do a backbreaker? Really?

Yep. My theory: he wanted to become a worker after playing as King Slender in NES Pro Wrestling.

 

One thing I noticed, and this isn't just a ROH thing, is the announcers. Not that they're bad or anything, but there was just something about them I couldn't put my finger on. Then I realized what it was: They're way too young sounding. Most indy feds have this problem, and there's probably not a lot they can do about it. One thing the announcer does is convey to the viewer that of all the shit you've watched in your life, this shit you're watching now is the best. That message is best conveyed by an older (or at least older sounding) dude who has that pull of someone who's seen it all so you can believe it when he tells you how great what you're seeing is. World Class had Bill Mercer, the NWA had Gordon Solie, Stampede had Ed Whalen, UWF/WCW/WWF had Jim Ross. It just doesn't sound convincing when the announcers look and sound like two guys who could have been pulled out of the crowd and put in suits.

Yeah, and the worst part is, it's not something you can do anything about. Like, Tony Schiavone still sounds like he might be 20, while Jim Ross always sounded like a middle-aged guy. It does change a little bit over the years: when I started announcing in 2002 I sounded so painfully young and smarky that I really can't listen to the old tapes of myself, but five years of yelling and chain smoking did fix that slightly.

 

Personally, I think Prazack's as good as an announcer as you'll find anywhere on the indies (now that Dan Wilson is semi-retired anyway), but I liked him a lot better when he was yucking it up as the foul-mouthed hipster in IWA than his kinda generic, standard play-by-play guy version that he employs in ROH and SHIMMER.

[Clayton Jones]

I really enjoyed the ROH PPV, especially Marufuji/Romero. I liked the production although the audio quality needs to be improved. I thought aside from that the commentary came off very well, especially the segment that led into the Briscoes/Steenerico brawl. That angle was really good and I went from not caring at all about catching that match on the second PPV to absolutely needing to see it. Really liked how Morishima came off throughout the PPV, they did a very good job of getting him over as the monster that the ROH roster needs to stop. On the negative side the other matches blended together a bit since everyone was trying to cram in the highspots. I can understand why they were doing that but I'm looking forward to more variety in the matches on the upcoming PPVs. The editing needs to be smoother as well, but on the visual side things weren't bad otherwise. The look was gritty which fit the feel, and the intro graphics were a pleasant surprise from a company who usually isn't very good with that sort of thing. Overall, I thought it was a very good first effort from the company, as did the group of people I watched it with.

[Phil Schneider]

Here is the review Tomk and I posted over at Segunda Caidia

 

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com

 

 

ROH Respect Is Earned PPV

 

PAS: I have been to a ton of ROH shows over the years, and I would like the company to be successful enough to offer guys I like contracts so I don't have to see them in TNA. If PPV being successful gets Samoa Joe out of that shithole, I will kick in my $15.

 

TKG: ROH (for better or worse) is completely built around your long tail theory where future of retail is built around "selling less of more"(www.thelongtail.com).ROH was built this way before every music/entertainment marketing seminar was built around talking point that "future of retail is having lots of niche products for sale, instead of one or two really successful across the board products" and myspace stuff ( newmusicstrategies.com/2007/03/16/the-20-things-you-must-know-about-music-online/). I don't think Gabe is a strategic marketing genius and think he's probably just lucked into the right thing at the right time. That said there are allot of indy promotions which are funded by DVD sales (promotions set up knowing that they draw more income from DVD/video sales than they do from attendance) Gabe comes across a lot savvier than those other promotions. Still as a viewer, it takes a while to get past the paradigm shift. I’m used to traditional model of wrestling fed that runs houseshows/TV in effort to entice you to go to the big supershow or buy the PPV. ROH is doing the opposite as they are running a PPV whose goal is to entice you to go to the houseshows or buy DVDs of their regular shows. It’s a complete flip as I’m used to “A” being advertisement for “B”, and not “B” acting as advertisement for “A”. There are things that an ROH show does very differently then WWE/WWF/ECW?WCW did because they have different goals. WWE will never mention that Angle once worked for them because selling DVDs of houseshows/TV.etc with Angle isn’t primary goal. ROH PPV is full of mentions of Low-Ki, Homicide, Samoa Joe, CM Punk,etc because their goal is to sell back catalogue. I’m not convinced that this PPV was particularly effective at selling their DVD back catalogue, but I think it’s important to remember that that is the goal.

 

Takeshi Morsihima v BJ Whitmer:

 

TKG: Whitmer makes an open challenge, Morishima answers and YIKES. Why is Whitmer getting this much in on the champ? Why is Whitmer doing KENTA's flying knee strike in an opener when KENTA is working the main event? I like your Vader v Hashi or Shiga type matches but this isn't one of those. You could have had Whitmer get a run of offense without Morishima having to leave his feet. Or at least built to Morishima leaving his feet. But no. Whitmer is easily able to take Morishima off his feet and gets two sets of two-count near falls on Morishima. Two sets of near falls on the champ before Morishima gets off a big offense run. Just fucking awful match where neither guy comes across looking like much of anything. Lenny Leonard is doing the "puts everyone down" line too.

 

PAS: I have no idea why Leonard is stealing shitty Gabe commentary lines, "Puts em all down" isn't even "Daaangerrooous" which at least has some kitsch value. This wasn't good, Whitmer getting to run through all of his offense before Morishima takes over is a terrible way to build either guy. Whitmer doesn't look good, because he hits all of his shit and can't put Morishima down, and Morishima gets bumped all over the ring. This stunk

 

PAS: I thought the RAW in ring segment was fine, does a nice job establishing all three guys, maybe watching all of this Mid-South lately biases me, but Morishima really could have used Skandor Akbar to do his mike work.

 

Rocky Romero v Naomichi Marifuji:

 

TKG: Holy fuck this is mind numbing. They do eight minutes of meaningless masturbatory circa 98 indy superstar exchanges (mirror missed stuff/face offs etc.) . I don't know if you can even call the first eight minutes masturabtory, as this was way too limp dicked to be called masturbation. They follow that up with about six minutes of Marafuji works Romero's leg, which is followed up by five minute finisher exchange section. There were large sections where it felt like they were walking through this, like I was watching a dress rehearsal practice run through. If the first two matches were my intro to ROH, I would say "fuck this shit" and never bother with it again.

 

PAS: Some individual pieces of offense looked good, and I get the sense that if this was on New Japan TV in the 90's and we only got the last four minutes you might think it was good. Unfortunately we got it all, the meaningless leg work, the awful strike exchange, the parts of the match where one guy was standing around clearly waiting for the other guy to hit his move. There was this point of the match where Romero is on the apron and Marifuji is in the ring, Romero throws an overhand right, which Marifuji blocks, it was thrown so slow and so obviously to be blocked, that we rewound it to laugh three or four times, honestly funnier then anything on the Flavor Flav roast except for maybe Greg Giraldo. This match was pretty much everything that is bad about ROH.

 

TKG: You could throw a rock at any NE indy and hit a match worked exactly the same. For a formula match this wasn't even well worked formula. This was followed by a backstage bit with Tank Tolland, Larry Sweeney, and Sarah Del Rey. I normally really like Larry Sweeney's wink-wink Andrew WK hipster homage to 80s mic work stuff...but for some reason here it came off less as homage and more like just second rate imitation. Tank Tolland's mic work was pretty strong.

 

Briscoes v. Matt Sydal/Claudio Castongnoli

 

PAS: This was your basic big match Briscoes tag with all that is good and bad about that match. This felt like it was missing some heel/face stuff which made the Murder City Machine Guns match. Both Sydal and Claudio are fun heels, and some shtick would have kept this from being just an exhibition of spots. Still it was a pretty great exhibition of spots, Sydal is just a total blast, bumping all over the ring and dying on everything the Briscoes do, he may be the most graceful bumper in wrestling. Still Sydal is great at playing both cocky heel and underdog babyface, here he was kind of playing random guy in a Dragon's Gate six-man.

 

TKG: This took a while to get going but once Marc got nastily dropped to the outside it just all came together and we were off to the races. Really liked Marc's goofy kung fu section with Sydal and think those two could have a really fun singles. Castognoli's new hair makes him look like a Dick Tracy villain. Unfortunately he wasn't working like a Dick Tracy villain. He wasn't working like a Basil Wolverton face either. Again random guy in a Dragon Gate six man. The post match pull apart was pretty fun. I could live without ever seeing announcers on camera, and for some reason Prazac and Leonard were in matching suits that made them look like they were in The Hives. Actually neither really has the stage prescence to be convincing as Sweedish garage rockers. Does Almqvist force his roadies into matching suits? They looked like roadies for the Hives.

 

PAS: I don't think I have seen Lenny Lenorard before, he really looks like Downs Syndrome Don West. The post match brawl was pretty great, and you have to give Deranged and Azreal props for just getting killed. Let's hope they keep them around as bumping Project 161 Adam Pearce disciples.

 

Delirious v. Roderick Strong

 

TKG: This was first match that had a real face/heel structure but it wasn't the type of face/heel structure that makes sense in an intro show. This was worked like your fired up underdog babyface gets his revenge match. So it is a face/heel match built on the angry underdog face really dominating the heel. Face comes in guns a blazing. You don't put the big revenge bunkhouse match on the first show, because the face dominating bunkhouse match doesn't really give the heel a chance to work heel. This went too long for that type of match as it moved from being a face gets revenge match into epic feud ending match. And I would have praised this highly if it had a good feud ending match finish. But instead it ended abruptly and then had the beat down and second face/heel everyone comes out in a row post match.

 

PAS: I have seen a fair amount of Roderick Strong and I don't remember him doing this many backbreakers in one match. It seems like he wanted to really get his Messiah of the Backbreaker gimmick over on the PPV so he did all of his variations. Tom really nailed the match setups problems on the head, the crowd was deadish for this which hurt the fired up babyface stuff too.

 

TKG: Adam Pierce's fake Raven mic work did a nice job putting over BJ Whitmer. Unfortunately the PPV had a BJ Whitmer match and no mic work was going to change that.

 

Bryan Danielson/Takeshi Morishima v. KENTA/Nigel McGuiness

 

PAS: This PPV really need a great main event to save it, and this really did deliver. I have read people complain about Nigel just throwing lariats, but I am a Choshu fan, nothing wrong with simplifying what you do, if you do it well, and Nigel was killing people with lariats here, from all angles. Nigel's big match restarts are always fun, and I loved him coming back in with the taped up arm, and the jawbreaker with the bad arm was a great near fall. You kind of forget how good Danielson is, but he was amazing here. KENTA and McGuiness are two of his best opponents, and all of their interactions were great. The multiple reversal finish is a staple of indy wrestling, but Danielson may be the only guy who can really pull it off. The whole finish section with KENTA was completely awesome. The match wasn't perfect, for guys who trained together and work constantly KENTA and Morishima don't interact well, and the points where they were matched up were the weakest parts.

 

TKG: Why isn't this being pimped more? This was really great and all about the pairings as Nigel pairs up well with both Morishima and Danielson and Danielson pairs up well with KENTA and Nigel. And the pairings deliver. This was also the one match where they really pulled off the face/heel dynamic. with Danielson working effectively as heel and Nigel's fighting back from arm stuff telegraphing "face". There was a section where Nigel lariated Danielson off top rope where Morishima just stood around twiddling his thumbs. Maan I'm beginning to think that the Double Takeshis stuff that I used to like so much was all Rikioh.

[sek69]

So I just watched the second PPV, and I thought it was a much better effort than the first.

 

I never noticed it as much before, but between Prazak's opening promo and Austin Aries' promo, they really bring back kayfabe in ROH by pushing the aspect that what they do is a real sport. It sounds kind of silly to bring back kayfabe in 2007 but it's something different instead of trying to be a WWE clone and failing like a lot of other promotions end up doing *cough*TNA*cough*.

 

The opening six-man reminded me of how WCW would have spotfests in the opening slot to get the crowd amped up for the show, and it worked well here too. Dave pretty much nailed it in his review in the WON by saying you wouldn't want a whole show like this but sometimes a spotfest is just what you need to set things off right.

 

Actually showing clips of their Japan tour and showing Japanese fans chanting "ROH" came off a million times better than having the announcers practically beg for acceptance at the first PPV. It made it look like ROH isn't just bullshitting about being a company that goes around the world, which is a point that probably will be slept on by a lot of people who are already fans but might convince a few people who weren't sure about if this a company worth following or not.

 

It should be noted that my wife, (who stopped watching wrestling when Rock left WWE and is pretty much the epitome of the fanbase they've lost since WCW died) was marking out during the Claudio-Sydal match to the point of asking "Why are these guys so much better than WWE? do they practice their wrestling more or something?". I think that's a pretty good sign for ROH, they took someone who had no clue who the fuck any of these people were at the start of the show and had her going "HOLY SHIT~!" at the ending sequence. It's an unscientific study to be sure, but its at least some evidence that this PPV adventure might end up working out.

 

Larry Sweeney single handedly makes me care in every segment he's in, as I don't give a shit about anyone in his stable. He really is the closest thing this era has to Bobby Heenan in which he can take dudes that literally have nothing going for them and make you actually care.

 

The title match was fine as a "teach the fans matches can be short" segment, but I'm really hoping they switch the belt soon. The longer Morishima has the belt, the more it's obvious he's just holding it so Gabe/ROHbots can wank it to Japanese dudes in person. I guess it's smart booking based on the fanbase, but they've pretty much telegraphed that no one is going to be able to stop the path of FAT GIRL RAGE besides Danielson, so now it's like just have them fight already instead of dicking around with #1 contender matches.

 

Dragon-Nigel was pretty awesome, and except for the "charging rams" spot (which ended up looking 100x worse in retrospect after all the concussion stuff came out) it was a pretty solid match. Danielson leaning over the ropes with a bloody face should be ROH's version of the shot of Austin bleeding in the Sharpshooter. I do have one question, with all the (deserved) hate for the Canadian Destroyer gets for being convoluted, what's the deal with Cattle Mutilation? Best I can figure is it's the world's most intricate Full Nelson.

[Phil Schneider]

Resilience v No Remorse Corps:

 

TKG: I dug this a bunch I'm always a fan of the spotfest as opener format. This was filled with guys who I actively don't like and for some reason they kept on matching up Romero and Cross which didn't help to hide either of their flaws. But the advantage of this type of quick multiperson spotfest was it got guys in and out quickly. Guys hit their spots and then get out of the way, guys who are tempted to work, everything is even, matches are forced to work man down and sell for the two on ones,etc. Davey Richards was perfectly fine in this and both Delirious and Erick Stevens delivered. Roderick Strong who is normally the best guy on his team looked really really off for large chunks of this. But even with the an off Strong and the pairing of Romero/Cross this was a format that meant none of that really hurt the match. Post match-Austin Aries does some babyface mic work and they need to get a real sound-man for these shows.

 

PAS: Yeah Strong looked actively terrible here, which is kind of weird. He blew a missed clothesline by actually clotheslining the guy, which is actually kind of unique. I liked this way more then I thought I would considering how much I dislike most of the guys in it. Stevens especially looked really good, in a type of match that isn't really his thing. I think they should have shaved off a minute or two at the end, as they had a two count or two too many.

 

Claudio Castagnoli v Matt Sydal

 

TKG: This had some spectacular spots, Castagnoli takes the Chris Hamerick/Fuerza bump, and Sydal eats a giant swing better than I've ever seen anyone eat a giant swing as his face goes through multiple guy trying to hold down his lunch on a roller coaster variations. But this was disappointing. Both guys are guys who can work multiple speeds. Guys who can move from fast to slow to concentrated fast to medium, etc. Both guys can do and sell for nice mat work, both guys know how to do and sell for good brawling strike sections. Both are guys who can work face and heel and here instead they worked just super match up and those are completely forgettable outside the spots. Part of the format of starting show with fast 6 man spotfest is that you slowly move away from that opening speed. Second match at same speed as first means they start to run together.

 

PAS: I had similar problems with this as Tom. This really could have used some face/heel structure, so it would be something besides just spot after spot. Still I guess for the post match angle to work, this needs to be worked as a scientific face v. face match. I would rather see Bret Hart as a face working Buzz Sawyer as a heel, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy them exchanging gut wrench takedowns in their Georgia match. I guess intricate headscissors are the 2007 version of gut wrench takedowns.

 

TKG: Post match Larry Sweeney does mic work to sign Sydal up for a contract and I really liked the almost parallelism of Austin Aries signing contract to Ring of Honor-this place that values and respects the wrestlers and the fans, while heel Sydal signs contract with Sweeney who represents lack of respect and sportsmanship. Larry Sweeney has never facially looked or sounded as much like Christopher Love.

 

Naomichi Marifuji v BJ Whitmer-

 

TKG: Lenny Leonard tells me all about the backstory of Marifuji and how he has held every title in NOAH including the "prestigious" GHC belt and he tells me Whitmer's backstory and then he announces "this will be a very even matchup". Really? They are going to run an even match-up between the guy they are putting over as a GHC title holder and the guy who is working a PPV loosing streak leading to joining an Adam Pierce stable.??? I guess working 50/50 opposite former GHC title holder is better than last PPV where Whitmer took 60 against current ROH title holder. Still this was shitty and the half that Whitmer was in control for was ugly and the half where Whitmer was eating stuff wasn't a ton better. This was worked really even and started fine but quickly went to shit. They did lots of bad looking strike exchanges which only reminded me of how much the last match could have used some strike exchanges.

 

PAS: I didn't hate this as much as I hated either guys previous PPV match, but that is damning with pretty faint praise. Whitmer is a guy who is clearly someone who started tape trading about 1998, I bet I sold him a Schneider Comp at some point. He jumps between 1998 Big Japan bumps, and 1998 All Japan suplex exchanges. He doesn't do either particularly well, but his channeling of a 1998 Kobashi v. Akyama match is the shittier of the two. Marifuji was probably a ring boy at that point so he can run through a shitty approximation of one of those matches. Also Marifuhji has some goofy fucking offense, less like he is channelling Misawa and more like channeling Cheech and or Cloudy. There is a point where Whitmer crotches himself on the top rope, where he actually crotched himself before Marifuji made contact with the ropes. One of the problems with both PPV's so far has been that all the matches are too similar, they don't break up the high impact stuff with mat based matches or comedy matches. I guess your poorly executed Whitmer match is in the spot on the card where Colt Cabana v. Kikutaro used to go.

 

Pelle Primau v. Brent Albright

 

PAS: I like the idea of introducing someone new by having them brutal squash a jobber, it is basically how they introduced Steen and Generico on the last PPV, and it works well here too. Albright is a shitty guy to showcase, as he looks like Joey Fatone with an HGH belly, but this is a fine way to showcase him.

 

TKG: Yeah this was fine. Primau eats stuff well and Albright hit his stuff well. They should have worked the Whitmer v Morishima match more like this. This was also helped by just being the only uneven match on the show thus far and just being paced differently from everything else on the show.

 

Briscoes v. Kevin Steen/El Generico

 

PAS: I liked this better then the Briscoes match on the last PPV, as Kevin Steen is really good at working heel, and you do want to see him get his pasty face kicked in. The match meandered a bit in the beginning, as Generico worked face in peril, which he isn't very good at, and he wasn't a face. Still when they got kicking with their Briscoes finish it was something to see. Jay's Cactus clothesline was awesome, and the beel into the chairs was a great street fight execution of a signature spot. Jay should really stop using the press slam DVD as a set up move, but I liked this a bunch and it makes me want to see all of their garbage match rematches.

 

TKG: Yeah this was the best thing on the show thus far. It had the face/heel dynamic that was missing from the last PPV tag match. Had less Marc insanity though. Being paced like everything else made it not stand out as much as it should have but it was fun crazy tag with nice hateful crowd brawling. Generico as faceish member of his tag team working heel in peril didn't work to well for me either but Generico looked pretty great in everything else he did. It really feels like he needs to go the Jimmy Jacobs route and move on in terms of gimmick. This type of match can feel like it has excessive near falls or goes, this didn't. Outside of the press slam DVD for two that set up the finisher, this really felt like it ended right where it should end.

 

TKG: I liked both the backstage Sweeney and Adam Pearce promos, both a lot better than their promos from last PPV.

 

PAS: Adam Pearce's Kevin Sullivan stuff doesn't work with his black button up shirt and blue jeans. He needs a robe or something. It doesn't work with a guy dressed like a middle manager at a sports bar.

 

Takeshi Morishima v. Jimmy Rave

 

PAS: I don't like the Morishima 3 minute squash, where opponent still gets all of his signature offense in, match formula at all. Still Rave takes crazy bumps on the clothesline and backdrop so this was better then the Whitmer match. Still it is a dumb formula.

 

TKG: It should also be said that Rave's spear and other offense looks alot nastier than Whitmer's offense. Bad formula, but like the Albright squash, this still felt different enough to other matches that it was satisfying.

 

Bryan Danielson v. Nigel McGuiness

 

PAS: Man alive, this is how you end a PPV. These guys have a real formula worked out with each other, and it is really great to see how they adjust that formula in their different matches. I loved all of the opening matwork, all of the stuff with Nigel in the guard, and Danielson digging his knuckles into the temple was spectacular, I loved how they did the MMA spots, but made them pro-wrestlingy. I thought the selling in this match was actually pretty top shelf. Nigel often works restarts into his big matches, but here he kind of did mini-restarts throughout the match, toughing his way through moves he normally does easier. The fighting into the Tower of London was especially awesome. This match really felt like it was the stylistic offspring of all of those Regal v. Benoit matches, like this was the main event match those two never got to have with each other. Of course it is hard to watch both of these guys slam their heads into each other until they bleed without thinking about ghosts. Still great art is often tinged with tragedy, and this is the best piece of wrestling art this year.

 

TKG: Yeah this was pretty spectacular. And this is what you watch ROH for. So I complained earlier about everything on this PPV being worked at same pace. Instead of starting with a hot multiperson spotfest opener, slowing down to a technical match, then doing a brawl followed by a comedy match, followed by your big hard hitting main event...they instead ran with lots of even stuff, worked all at the same breakneck level and a couple squashes. And I could see there being a market of people who were upset that TNA didn't just build around the X-division but that market isn't me. This is what I want to see and I imagine that people who enjoy the other stuff on the show should enjoy this too. There were parts of the main which were really Regal v Benoitish and parts which were really about All Japan cumulative selling. For a match to determine who gets to challenge for the title it really was worked like a title match. The previous two Nigel v Danielson matches were worked essentially with Danielson as the man and Nigel as challenger to the man. Danielson had the title then. Here Danielson doesn't have the title and its not quite that you feel like he's the guy challenging, but the dynamic is completely changed. Here he isn't guy fighting to protect and hold onto his title, instead he is guy who has to take the title shot away from Nigel. The match moves really nicely from mat section to hard hitting section to throw section to dives into brawling section to your post-back dropped on guard rail back selling stretch to final strikes finish. The match never really feels broken up as you don't have a sense that you are in one section as it just it all flows from one to the other as both guys sell the cumulative punishment as they try to win. Great main event and it feels like this PPV top to bottom is probably a much better advertisement for ROH than the last one. I think even if your only exposure to Morishima was from these PPVs, you'd leave this one excited about Morishima v Danielson. So not only a good advertisement for their other product but also good advertisement for next PPV.

[Tim Evans]

I don't watch much ROH but I did watch this. Overall it was pretty good. I'll have to rewatch the Davey Richards, BJ Whitmer and Albright Morshima matches latter. I really could care less about either of them because I watched this for the Sydal and Briscoes matches.

 

Sydal/Claudio was a good match. Claudio is amazing and I'm shocked he's not in the WWE right now. I know they tried getting him in but it didn't work out. Sydal is a crazy spot machine and I'm not usually into that. Kinda reminds me of Laredo Kid a little bit. I didn't know ROH did many angles but the one after the match was good. I'm a big fan of Sweeney and he made this along with Bobby Dempsey. Him in the fat suit with Tank ripping him was funny. I don't get why Sydal is joining Sweet and Sour if he's leaving ROH?

 

Briscoes/Steen and Generico wasn't bad but wasn't great either. I've seen some of Steen and haven't been that impressed. Same thing with Generico. It started off good with some good face/heel stuff but turned into a move fest. It was something else. Briscoes are crazy and Steen looked good here. But some of the moves were crazy and should not have been kicked out of. Especially Steen's finisher.

 

I've seen the Nigel/Danielson match from Britain and thought it was great. I had high expectations for this match and it delivered. It was way different that the other matches and paced nicely. Like Tom said, this is what you watch ROH for. These two have great chemistry together. This match proved why Danielson is the best in the company. The head butts were sick and brutal. And the finish was nice too.

 

One of the things I was dreading before watching this was the commentary and the crowd. I usually can't stand both of these in ROH. Prazak and the other guy were alright. Way better than the old days with Gabe. Also the crowd didn't bother me as much as it usually does. Althought Prazak selling the Sydal heel turn was god awful.

[kjh]

I don't get why Sydal is joining Sweet and Sour if he's leaving ROH?

I'd imagine it's to get heat on Sweeney for being the person responsible in the storylines for Sydal cutting a deal with WWE.

[S.L.L.]

I don't get why Sydal is joining Sweet and Sour if he's leaving ROH?

This was filmed before he signed with WWE, if I've got the timeline right.

[sek69]

Bumping for the latest PPV:

 

 

#

 

 

# GRUDGE MATCH: "Gun for Hire" Brent Albright vs. Delirious..

 

# TAG SCRAMBLED: Steen & Generico vs. The Age Of The Fall vs. The HANGMAN 3 vs. The Vulture Squad..

 

# SHIMMER 3-WAY SPECIAL ATTRACTION: Sara Del Ray (SHIMMER Champion) vs. Lacey vs. Daizee Haze..

 

# MATCH: Erick Stevens vs. Davey Richards (of the No Remorse Corps)..

 

# GRUDGE MATCH: "Double C" Claudio Castagnoli vs. Chris Hero w/Sweet & Sour Inc.

 

# RELAXED RULES: "American Dragon" Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima..

 

# TAG TITLE 2/3 FALLS MATCH: The Briscoe Brothers vs. Roderick Strong & Rocky Romero..

 

# ROH WORLD TITLE MATCH: Nigel McGuinness (Champion) vs. Austin Aries (Challenger)

 

This was actually a pretty great show, probably the best of the PPVs so far. Dragon-Morishima was a great brawl that reminded me of those 70s bloodbaths in Florida you'd see pictures of in the mark mags and be all "holy shit, that must have been awesome". It's funny that after the big title push and right before he went back to Japan, they finally made me like Morishima. For once he didn't look like a Japanese girl with Downs, and when he went apeshit and started pummelling Dragon in the balls for a DQ (in a "relaxed rules" aka ECW style match) before tossing officals Godzilla style they finally had him look like the monster they wanted him to be.

 

I still don't like McGuinness though. I'm surprised ROH gave him the belt since they're all about workrate and he does almost nothing but lariats. Not to mention that Jawbreaker lariat with the Terry Funk style flip between the ropes is the most contrived bullshit since the Canadian Destroyer. Having said that, the match was awesome pretty much solely thanks to Aries bringing a HBK-esque willingness to die for one's art. He really made Nigel look like a million dollars,

 

 

The Briscoes are starting to grow on me too. Not the whole "BEST IN TEH WORLD" shit, but just coming to terms that they may be spot monkeys but at least they hit their spots. Watching them reminds me of watching Sabu if he wasn't fucked up all the time. Not to mention they actually look like a tag team. Growing up on NWA wrestling burned it in my brain that tag teams should have like a uniform of sorts to signify they are a team. They should wear the same colors or at least the same kind of gear. Otherwise they look like a jobber team put together for the weekend syndicated shows.

 

The brawl at the end was unintentionally hilarious too. They had all the stables/teams have a huge brawl backstage and all that was missing was "Yakety Sax" playing in the background.

[Resident Evil]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

[sek69]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

 

More than the rest of ROH to be sure. More than most of the wrestling world? That's a bit of a stretch.

[Resident Evil]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

 

More than the rest of ROH to be sure. More than most of the wrestling world? That's a bit of a stretch.

 

I'd say over 67% which is pretty good. From what I've seen of them, they're not forcing their charisma which is good.

[S.L.L.]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

 

More than the rest of ROH to be sure. More than most of the wrestling world? That's a bit of a stretch.

 

"The wrestling world" covers a lot of ground. I'd buy that they're in the upper half of all wrestlers active today.

[Loss]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

 

More than the rest of ROH to be sure. More than most of the wrestling world? That's a bit of a stretch.

 

I'd say over 67% which is pretty good. From what I've seen of them, they're not forcing their charisma which is good.

 

Gallup has it at 63%. WO.com feedback has it at 61%. I'm not sure which to believe.

[Resident Evil]

The Briscoes also have more natural charisma than most of the wrestling world.

 

More than the rest of ROH to be sure. More than most of the wrestling world? That's a bit of a stretch.

 

I'd say over 67% which is pretty good. From what I've seen of them, they're not forcing their charisma which is good.

 

Gallup has it at 63%. WO.com feedback has it at 61%. I'm not sure which to believe.

 

At times like this Loss, just go with your heart. Just go with your heart.

[anarchistxx]

The Briscoes are brilliant.

 

Even after May 2006, when I hated most of what ROH was putting out, I still picked up shows just to see them, Sydal and Jimmy Jacobs.

 

They're matches were long and overblown much of the time, but they'd do a 30 second promo and it would be the greatest thing ever. I totally bought them.

 

WWE is sure to pick them up before long.

[Resident Evil]

The Briscoes are brilliant.

 

Even after May 2006, when I hated most of what ROH was putting out, I still picked up shows just to see them, Sydal and Jimmy Jacobs.

 

They're matches were long and overblown much of the time, but they'd do a 30 second promo and it would be the greatest thing ever. I totally bought them.

 

WWE is sure to pick them up before long.

I don't watch too much ROH but I did recently see one of the Briscoes curse laden promos and it was excellent. I wanted to watch their next match after that. The WWE would be wise to pick these guys up because they have the "it" factor to them. I don't know how well they'd fit into the WWE and I don't even know if I'd personally want to see them there but I think they could do well if the WWE doesn't screw things up. I think the WWE needs more people who have natural charisma. Some of their stars feel like they have manufactured charisma.

[Bix]

If the Briscoes went to WWE, they'd have to reprogram their style to the complete opposite of what got them over in ROH. I don't think that they'd fare too well.

[Resident Evil]

If the Briscoes went to WWE, they'd have to reprogram their style to the complete opposite of what got them over in ROH. I don't think that they'd fare too well.

Yeah, they'd have to reprogram their style, tone down and/or eliminate some of the more bone crunching stuff and all that. Maybe they'd have to get a new gimmick or whatever. That'd be the big worry. It'd be a worry for a lot of wrestlers.

 

However, when you have charisma and a strong athletic base you have a big head start to the finishing line of success. They would still look unique and polished in the ring. There's also no reason why they can't adapt to the WWE style especially when given time.

[anarchistxx]

If the Briscoes went to WWE, they'd have to reprogram their style to the complete opposite of what got them over in ROH. I don't think that they'd fare too well.

Well, that's very true, but I still think the WWE would look to pick them up. Whether it'd be any good is another matter though.

 

They still have great charisma though, but I have seen them work a southern tag, albeit with tons of crazy moves, and it's been when I've liked them most. The matches when they don't come off well, are the 20 minute + ones where they go backward and forward with no direction of emotion for the first 15 minutes, before going crazy for the final strait.

 

I still think they could use the 'ma up' gimmick.

[S.L.L.]

If the Briscoes went to WWE, they'd have to reprogram their style to the complete opposite of what got them over in ROH. I don't think that they'd fare too well.

Strictly speaking, their style may not be the problem. They could tone it down a bit, and frankly, they'd be better for doing that. The problem is that they're kinda small, and their surly bruiser routine might come off as odd unless they're largely restricted to wrestling cruiserweights until they become established. If London and Kendrick were still tag champs, I could see bringing them in, running that feud for a while, and seeing if they stuck. But right now, there doesn't seem to be an obvious place for them.

[Resident Evil]

If the Briscoes went to WWE, they'd have to reprogram their style to the complete opposite of what got them over in ROH. I don't think that they'd fare too well.

Strictly speaking, their style may not be the problem. They could tone it down a bit, and frankly, they'd be better for doing that. The problem is that they're kinda small, and their surly bruiser routine might come off as odd unless they're largely restricted to wrestling cruiserweights until they become established. If London and Kendrick were still tag champs, I could see bringing them in, running that feud for a while, and seeing if they stuck. But right now, there doesn't seem to be an obvious place for them.

 

This was my other worry but I didn't feel like bringing up any WWE/size/steroid stuff. I also wasn't quite too sure on how big the Briscoes actually are compared to the big guys.

[anarchistxx]

I'd say they're at least as big as Punk, and he hasn't had a problem it seems.