AEW Dynamite - December 15, 2021 - Winter is Coming

[El-P]

12 minutes ago, MoS said:

I didn't think they lost the crowd at any point at all. 

They did after a really hot nearfall around 45mn. Crowd kinda goes quiet for what follows for a (short, admitedly) while, as if they overshot the apex (like it happened in the FTR vs Lucha Brothers title match a few weeks back). They got it back though.

12 minutes ago, MoS said:

that brief lull when Hangman was getting treated was crucial in achieving that. 

Totally disagree. The Hangman getting treated was way overdone, way too long and nothing Danielson did to him was justifiying such a lull. Some people started chanting "bullshit", which is a first in AEW. The work that came afterward, sure, and it's what, more than 30-35 mn of (great) work. 

[Matt D]

I'm a pretty bog stickler against doing stuff for the sake of doing it or to kill time, etc. I just caught the international version and I can't think of any moments in the match where I particularly had that feeling. I'll have to watch it again, but this was way above most 60 minute matches along those lines. Danielson, in general but specifically here, makes it pretty easy to work out his motivations. I do think there were points in the match designed to "work towards the commercials," and fully admit that was an issue with the TNT version of the match. The crowd and Danielson's presence made it less of an issue on the international version. When they came back after the abdominal stretch and were at the point of Page trying to reverse the surfboard and the fans were just absolutely buzzing, it meant that it wasn't negatively affecting things as much as it could have. That said, whenever you have artificial constructs within a match like that, it's going to have an impact. And, frankly, it wasn't true for every commercial break as the DDT on the floor was during one of them, for instance.

[Jmare007]

I guess I could buy the "doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff/fill in time" in the sense of Danielson changing focus so many times or the stretch before Hangman was tossed to the apron (sick bump btw). I'd actually like to go back to that period because it's the only one that's kind of a blur to me, I remember Hangman mounting a comeback but I'm not sure how "meaningful" it actually was.

As far as Danielson switching his point of attack I tend to agree with what @MoS said. It would've bothered me more if he attempted more submissions that were clearly working (I remember a ZSJ vs Okada match that had that kind of "problem", in my eyes) but it seemed his most effective attacks were strikes to different body parts that were slowing or keeping Page down. Like, the ankle lock to kick in the gut transition he did was fucking awesome and made complete sense to me.

I need the international feed of the match, were can I watch it @Matt D?

Also, I need more people appreciating Dragon doing jumping jacks at the 40-50 minute mark on 1 foot because he had to sell the leg he's an asshole to the very end!

 

1 hour ago, strobogo said:

I've seen a lot of 60 minute matches in my time, but not many that not only stayed hot the entire time, but got hotter and hotter all the way to the finish. And the crowd started off super hot to begin with. Very enjoyable professional wrasslin in the year of our lord 2021.

Yup, this was my main take after the match too. The fact they had 10,000 people popping like crazy for a submission attempt at the 57 minute mark and legit buying into a possible pinfall after the buckshot lariat felt really special to me. Don't remember a 60 minute draw (I'm not counting Ironman matches) being able to get that kind of engagement at that point of the match were the most obvious result was a draw. 

 

[El-P]

27 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

The fact they had 10,000 people popping like crazy for a submission attempt at the 57 minute mark and legit buying into a possible pinfall after the buckshot lariat felt really special to me.

I totally bought it and thought they could go for the Gedo trick of teasing the draw that actually ends up in a win at the very last limit.

[Al]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

I am actually a bit nervous about what Bryan has planned for the rematch. I remember very early on in his career, he really wanted to do like a 180-min match (3 falls, 60 mins each) but "compromised" and went only like 80 minutes. As great as this draw was, the rematch doesn't need to be longer. It actually needs to be shorter and more intense imo, so it's a different kind of classic. 

It reminds me of Gargano/Ciampa. The first Takeover match was great, an epic. Then they went out next time and did it again. At that point I know Gargano and Ciampa could have a great match, but I had absolutely no desire whatsoever to invest myself emotionally again. I can get into a match where I don't know what to expect and they end up dragging me in for however long it goes. But when you KNOW it's going at least 30, why even bother paying attention for the first 15-20 minutes? 

[strobogo]

10 minutes ago, Al said:

It reminds me of Gargano/Ciampa. The first Takeover match was great, an epic. Then they went out next time and did it again. At that point I know Gargano and Ciampa could have a great match, but I had absolutely no desire whatsoever to invest myself emotionally again. I can get into a match where I don't know what to expect and they end up dragging me in for however long it goes. But when you KNOW it's going at least 30, why even bother paying attention for the first 15-20 minutes? 

Because in a good match, the first 15-20 minutes sets the base for last 15-20. It's not like a NJ main event epic where the first 15-20 minutes literally are just killing time and have no impact whatsoever on the rest of the match either in story or character stuff. 

 

In the history of pro wrestling, the vast, vast, vast majority of hour long draws have next to nothing going on story wise for 45+ minutes of the match. I don't really like the idea of matches having everything make 100% logical sense 100% of the time. That's never the case in real combat sports or even non combat sports. Super super super dialed in psychology everything has to make perfect sense makes it harder for me to suspend disbelief. 

[sek69]

I knew it would be a long match because it's Bryan and that's what he likes to do, but he had me believing they were going to do the 59.59 finish like Gedo would, which I suppose is a testament to how good a worker he is.  Not doing time callouts and not having the announcers even mention  the time limit until it was down to 5 minutes was smart since it kept you from focusing on the time and made it easier to believe maybe there would be a last minute fall. 

[Jmare007]

Re watched it without commercials and it was slightly better, which is kinda crazy. I agree that the time Hangman was getting treated and Dragon was heeling it up felt more natural and it certainly pissed the crowd off and made support Page fully. I also appreciated Hangman's arm selling way more as he did a really good job in the 40 minute mark (which I think was the commercial break without picture in picture).