What the hell is going on here?

[tigerpride]

Lita and Trish have both bled hardway before

[Sean Liska]

I think you can still get heel heat from having a guy hit a woman. It just has to be done correctly. Even those evil ECW fans were pissed when Justin Credible tombstoned Beulah since they genuinely cared about Beulah as a face and weren't fond of Credible. I was at SummerSlam and the crowd gasped when Jericho nailed HBK's wife. It worked because Jericho is a fantastic heel and Mrs HBK seemed above that type of stuff due to her not being a wrestler.

 

For some reason I've never been too bothered by somethng like woman getting piledriven or put through a table. It's usually just so cartoonish and over the top. However, I remember really getting uneasy during a Nitro from 99 when Savage was a lead heel. They had some show end with him angrily yelling at a woman, I think Gorgeous George or Torrie, and then he started slapping her as she pleaded for mercy. That's too close to home and reminds you of actual domestic abuse type situations. And of course it can be unsettling when you're at an indy show and there are guys around you that are getting way to excited about that type of violence.

[Loss]

Rick Rude threw some woman (can't remember who) into a cage in ECW in 1997 and she juiced, but I don't remember it ever happening in WWE.

[Tim Evans]

Yeah that was Beulah. That's the only time i can remember an American woman doing a bladejob in a major promotion.

[Ditch]

So the question I would pose is this: Is there any way to effectively portray a women's wrestler going up against men's wrestlers, or is that something that is better left not done at all?

Sure. Kyoko Kimura has been opposite men in deathmatches several times, and she has just enough size and spunk and toughness to make it work. Not everyone's cup of tea or anything, but somehow her trading light tube shots seems less bothersome than if someone booked Momoe Nakanishi to get kicked in the face for fifteen minutes by Kawada in 2001.

[Benbeeach]

At the risk of opening up Pandora's Box even farther, does anyone know the context of the pic in the OP? Not that there's too many situations where that could be acceptable outside of Terri getting blasted by another woman - and even that won't be kosher for everyone - but I'm still curious.

I was wrong. Apparently she got opened up hardway and it wasn't a bladejob. Not sure who hit her though? It could have been the other woman in the match, Randy Savage's ex Gorgeous George. Anways on this same show was The Iron Shiek, Eddie Kingston vs Kamala in a match that lasted a minute and the main event of Balls Mahoney vs Sabu vs Sandman vs Devon Moore vs some other guy. And the show only drew about 200 people.

 

Sounds kinda must-see

[sek69]

You know it's kind of funny how we're discussing this stuff an on the 11/3/97 RAW up on WWE 24/7 there's two men-being-evil-to-women storylines with Marc Mero bullying Sable and Dustin "dumping" Terri for someone else in one of those uncomfortable shootstyle promos. Didn't the "one" he ends up with turn out to be Luna which started the Artist Formerly Known As Goldust gimmick?

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

Yeah, that was Luna.

 

We should have a thread about Goldust. What a great character for the first few months. Well, actually, the first couple of months he was a terrible character because he had that weird bodysuit where you could see the outline of his dick & balls. Once they switched to the thicker pleather bodysuit it was smooth sailing. The gay angle was really the first indication I had that WWF was moving away from the "family entertainment" style and going more raunchy. I'll tell you it was mind-blowing considering what the WWF was like in the summer of '95 to hear just a few months later Vince McMahon talking about "the gay community" and "homophobia." (Years later, it's also hilariously disheartening to hear the announcers say that the babyface IC champ Razor Ramon has "homophobic fears," but it IS wrestling.

 

Unfortunately he lost steam throughout the year as he proceeded to do the same exact angle with six guys in a row. After they made it abundantly clear that he was just playing mind games with his opponents, it sorta killed those angles, didn't it? No, Undertaker he doesn't want to fuck you. Didn't you notice he pulled the same shit on Razor, Piper and the Warrior? What about that hot chick he made out with after beating Razor for the belt? Oh well, maybe he was bi. Actually, they SHOULD have made Goldust bi-sexual, and they should have done angles where he had sex with both male wrestlers and female valets. Like when Frank-n-Furter slept with both Brad and Janet. That would have been some good stuff during the Attitude Era, but it really would have hurt whichever wrestlers were tagged with the stigma of "the guy who fucked Goldust." Maybe they could have done it with Mark Henry when they were trying to get him to quit, since he in storyline had sex with everyone from a tranny to an old woman to his own sister. It's too bad they sent Mark back down to OVW rather than continuing his on-screen punishment, because there's no telling how long it would have been before they stuck him with the gimmick of a wrestler who eats feces on the way to the ring.

[Bix]

Yeah, that was Luna.

 

We should have a thread about Goldust. What a great character for the first few months. Well, actually, the first couple of months he was a terrible character because he had that weird bodysuit where you could see the outline of his dick & balls.

Don't forget the blackened ears, which were horrible and inexplicable.

[Bob Morris]

Goldust, of course, had started off as a "Hollywood starlet" gimmick done over the top. That was the first problem before they switched to the androgynous character playing "mind games."

 

As I recall, his character was toned down considerably because of complaints from overseas networks.

 

The worse part was the era of The Artist Formerly Known as Goldust. Not only did the gimmick flop badly, but that was also the time when Dustin Rhodes had put on about 20 pounds around the waistline.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I remember the couple of times during the TAFKAG period when he dressed up as Marilyn Manson. That would have been a good fit for his character, maybe not dressing like him, but pushing him as "the Marilyn Manson of the World Wrestling Federation." I guess if he had gone through with the fake breasts, maybe he would have been.

[Kronos]

Didn't Foley run his barbed wire across Lita's face at the mania match with Edge? Not too bloody, but it was kinda vicious. I am surprised she agreed.

 

Back in April, PWG's 1.21 Gigawatts ended with Candace LaRae taking a nasty beating from Tornado, LuFisto, and Claudio, while a duct-taped-to-the-ropes Hero was forced to watch. (It was a fantastic segment, actually, and it cemented my belief in Hero's talent as an actor.) Anyway, she ended up almost as bloody as that Terri pic -- there was a fairly shocking photo of her back on the PWG forums, but I am unmotivated to look it up right now. . .

[tigerpride]

He wrapped Mr. Socko in barbed wire and put it in Lita's mouth

[sek69]

I remember the couple of times during the TAFKAG period when he dressed up as Marilyn Manson. That would have been a good fit for his character, maybe not dressing like him, but pushing him as "the Marilyn Manson of the World Wrestling Federation." I guess if he had gone through with the fake breasts, maybe he would have been.

 

That whole gimmick was actually pretty entertaining for a while until it started to get too ridiculous even for Attitude Era pro wrestling, with stuff like Dustin dressed in neon bodysuits and wearing a ball-gag.

[kjh]

You know it's kind of funny how we're discussing this stuff an on the 11/3/97 RAW up on WWE 24/7 there's two men-being-evil-to-women storylines with Marc Mero bullying Sable and Dustin "dumping" Terri for someone else in one of those uncomfortable shootstyle promos. Didn't the "one" he ends up with turn out to be Luna which started the Artist Formerly Known As Goldust gimmick?

Let's not forget that Dustin's heel turn was prompted by Brian Pillman's death and that the original storyline was for Terri to dump Dustin after being Pillman's apparently unwilling sex slave for 30 days, probably the worst man-being-evil-to-women storyline they've ever done.

[JMFabianoRPL]

TAFKAG did lead to at least one good thing: when he did the impersonator gimmick for a while (most memorable one was him as Dusty Rhodes, natch)

[Guest DaDirtiest]

Roxi got busted open hardway with a chairshot, the part where the seat meets the metal on the chair. Nasty stuff.

[sek69]

Thanks to my local game shop, I spent the day today washing the memories of a bad Steeler game away with some Smackdown vs Raw 2007 and ended up with something that reminded me of this thread.

 

First there's a storyline where Trish helps Chris Masters win a ladder match for the WWE title by grabbing the belt off the hook herself. That results in a 3 way match with Masters, Trish, and whoever wrestler the player chose where she stays on the floor as a manager until it all ends up a SWERVE~! where she ends up punting both guys in the nards and winning the match. I thought they were going to do a Million Dollar Man style angle where she gives the belt to someone else but instead they have her going around claiming to be WWE champion while the announcers are practically having strokes over how women can't hold the WWE title, even going as far as comparing it to a 300 pounder winning the Cruiserweight title. Of course this is the same company that has had Harvey Whippleman win the Women's title and also had Chyna win the IC title. Finally it ends in Stephanie coming out and cutting a promo saying her family created the WWE title and she was taking it back because she's the dominant female and whatnot. The whole thing had a real "we gotta keep these bitches in line" vibe to the point it was starting to get (hopefully) unintentionally hilarious how hard they were pushing "women can't be champion" deal. Even when Lawler as the heel announcer would try to put her over, they would have JR be all "WELL YOU KNOW SHE CAN'T BE THE CHAMP NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY". It almost takes you mentally out of the game since you start thinking "holy christ, someone has some issues with women positions of power".

[Guest LShunter]

Thanks to my local game shop, I spent the day today washing the memories of a bad Steeler game away with some Smackdown vs Raw 2007 and ended up with something that reminded me of this thread.

 

First there's a storyline where Trish helps Chris Masters win a ladder match for the WWE title by grabbing the belt off the hook herself. That results in a 3 way match with Masters, Trish, and whoever wrestler the player chose where she stays on the floor as a manager until it all ends up a SWERVE~! where she ends up punting both guys in the nards and winning the match. I thought they were going to do a Million Dollar Man style angle where she gives the belt to someone else but instead they have her going around claiming to be WWE champion while the announcers are practically having strokes over how women can't hold the WWE title, even going as far as comparing it to a 300 pounder winning the Cruiserweight title. Of course this is the same company that has had Harvey Whippleman win the Women's title and also had Chyna win the IC title. Finally it ends in Stephanie coming out and cutting a promo saying her family created the WWE title and she was taking it back because she's the dominant female and whatnot. The whole thing had a real "we gotta keep these bitches in line" vibe to the point it was starting to get (hopefully) unintentionally hilarious how hard they were pushing "women can't be champion" deal. Even when Lawler as the heel announcer would try to put her over, they would have JR be all "WELL YOU KNOW SHE CAN'T BE THE CHAMP NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY". It almost takes you mentally out of the game since you start thinking "holy christ, someone has some issues with women positions of power".

But who? Cory Ledesma (sp)? I wonder who comes up with the storylines for these games, some of them are downright nutty. They also tend to chuck in a few "shoot-flavoured" lines on commentary in story mode.

[Marty]

I wonder who comes up with the storylines for these games, some of them are downright nutty. They also tend to chuck in a few "shoot-flavoured" lines on commentary in story mode.

Virgil Runnels Amendment!

[Guest LShunter]

I wonder who comes up with the storylines for these games, some of them are downright nutty. They also tend to chuck in a few "shoot-flavoured" lines on commentary in story mode.

Virgil Runnels Amendment!

 

That was the first one that I recall, then I think there was another one making jokes about "no nepotism" in the WWE or something like that. In a storyline with Triple H.

 

EDIT: Wait, I remember now. There was actually a swipe at Verne Gagne, when somebody (maybe Triple H?) was granted a title shot. JR says on commentary like "You'd think his name was Gagne"