The Wrestlemania 26 thread: The Undertaker ends Shawn Michaels career, Bret Hart makes me sad

[Frankensteiner]

The mid-card is certainly bland, but so are the main eventers for the most part. And I completely disagree with the notion that Cena is a great babyface. There is nothing genuine about the guy. Everything he says, the way he wrestles, his moves, his matches, it all feels like it's been fed to him by somebody working in the back. By what standard is he a great babyface? Cena's routinely booed by half the audience. It's like Rocky Maivia circa 1997 only with merchandise sales. If you mean from an in-ring standpoint, then it's a different argument, although one I don't think is true either for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

 

Batista is similar. A generic heel wearing designer clothes and sunglasses. Once you get past the attire he's got nothing of his own. I don't really think he's all that charismatic either. Just some buff dude with tribal tatoos working out in your local gym. Lex Luger circa '87 wasn't anything special. He was put with the Horsemen to hide his blandness. But '87 Luger would be a good role for Batista, sort of like what he did with Evolution.

 

Edge sucks. I can't even imagine someone I would like to watch any less. Lame style, lame overreactions and facial expressions, does less with more than anyone.

 

Rey Mysterio - I have watched a ton of WWE Rey Mysterio matches over the last 6 months and now think he's one of the best ever. But he's another guy that comes across as unconvincing and scripted (except the Punk stuff, which has been good). Maybe this isn't all his fault.

 

I would be curious if you could go through a list of headliners of the 80s/90s and point out the wrestlers who you find less convincing than these guys.

 

On WM 6, that was certainly a shit show and one that doesn't fit the description of mediocre. I wouldn't really have the desire to watch it from start to finish but I feel the same way about WM 26. I think WM 7 - 9 had multiple decent to good matches, though and would rank them ahead of this WM. But everything probably comes down to your enjoyment of current WWE and their style.

[El-P]

I'd glady take a roster with Macho King Randy Savage & Queen Sherri, Tito Santana, Mr. Perfect, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase, Barbie, Haku, The Rockers, The Orient Express bumping machine, Big Boss Man, Model Rick Martel, The Hart Foundation, Demolition, Greg Valentine somewhere, Koko B. Ware, and even Warrior carried by good workers like Rude & Savage, over the sea of dullness that is the WWE roster of today.

 

Of said roster, only Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Chris Jericho are at the same time cool characters and good workers. Taker is cool for once or two shots a year, but frankly, I'm passed the point of caring about a guy I was a fan of when I was 14. 20 years ago. HHH is putridly boring at this point, I can't fathom how anybody can have fun watching him work a match or cut a promo, really, I can't. Cena is the only homegrown musclehead I can have actually get into, because he's so over, and can work the overly simplistic, basic style he does pretty well and get good matches out of it. The rest of the roster is amazingly bland or just plain bad. Orton is still a black hole. Everything he does looks so forced, I'm not buying the ridiculous "Viper" deal at all. And his matches are still dreadfull after all these years. Plus he's basically doing DDP's stuff with the "out of nowhere" finisher. I liked it. Back in 97.

So, ok, that's 4 people I can have fun watching on the entire roster, 5 if you add Taker once in a long while for big matches against a quality opponent.

And that's not even mentionning the production, which I think is terrible.

Nah, give me some old MSG shows with bad lightning and a Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees match instead.

Like I said, either WWE passed me by, either it kinda sucks pretty damn hard. I think a little bit of both is true.

[ohtani's jacket]

You can make the same criticisms about every major company these days. Must be something in the water.

[artDDP]

Does anyone else like to think that Vince hesitates to really put someone over because in the last ten years or so...

 

Chris Jericho quit to play in a band

Jeff Hardy quit to play in a band/do drugs

Eddie Guerrero died

Chris Benoit murdered his family and then killed himself

Brock Lesnar quit because of the schedule

Goldberg quit because of the schedule

Kurt Angle became addicted to drugs and refused to go to rehab

Stacy Keibler became an actress

Chyna thought she was a movie star

Sable thought she was a movie star

The Rock became a movie star

 

Vince likes to own his talent and things like this likely mean he'll need years before he trusts someone is "WWE 4 Life" enough to get an Austin-level push.

[Loss]

I genuinely don't think Vince is opposed to creating new stars. I do think he is hesitant to do it at the expense of guys like HHH and Undertaker, his lifers, and Cena, his merchandise cash cow. He has no problem having his second-tier main eventers -- guys like Edge, Jericho, Rey, and Orton -- put over someone he wants to give a shot.

 

HHH has kept a pretty low profile lately, which probably means his heel turn and subsequent push are going to be more obnoxious than ever.

[artDDP]

I'm looking forward to another lethargic, chubby Hunter main event heel run.

[Frankensteiner]

I'd glady take a roster with Macho King Randy Savage & Queen Sherri, Tito Santana, Mr. Perfect, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ted DiBiase, Barbie, Haku, The Rockers, The Orient Express bumping machine, Big Boss Man, Model Rick Martel, The Hart Foundation, Demolition, Greg Valentine somewhere, Koko B. Ware, and even Warrior carried by good workers like Rude & Savage, over the sea of dullness that is the WWE roster of today.

 

Of said roster, only Rey Mysterio, CM Punk and Chris Jericho are at the same time cool characters and good workers. Taker is cool for once or two shots a year, but frankly, I'm passed the point of caring about a guy I was a fan of when I was 14. 20 years ago. HHH is putridly boring at this point, I can't fathom how anybody can have fun watching him work a match or cut a promo, really, I can't. Cena is the only homegrown musclehead I can have actually get into, because he's so over, and can work the overly simplistic, basic style he does pretty well and get good matches out of it. The rest of the roster is amazingly bland or just plain bad. Orton is still a black hole. Everything he does looks so forced, I'm not buying the ridiculous "Viper" deal at all. And his matches are still dreadfull after all these years. Plus he's basically doing DDP's stuff with the "out of nowhere" finisher. I liked it. Back in 97.

So, ok, that's 4 people I can have fun watching on the entire roster, 5 if you add Taker once in a long while for big matches against a quality opponent.

And that's not even mentionning the production, which I think is terrible.

Nah, give me some old MSG shows with bad lightning and a Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees match instead.

Like I said, either WWE passed me by, either it kinda sucks pretty damn hard. I think a little bit of both is true.

Agree with just about everything here.

 

From the current guys, I like watching Mysterio, Christian, and Regal. Never really been a fan of Jericho's wrestling but he is a guy who can get angles over. I've liked some stuff from ECW & Superstars in the past year. It's probably because no one (i.e. Vince) really gave/gives a shit about those shows so the workers have some more leeway.

[El-P]

About creating new stars, to me it's like Vince just doesn't want to because in his mind the only real star is the WWE itself. It really struck me during the WM intro (and it has been the same way every year for some time now), that no one individual or match is put over as more important than the other. The show is pretty much about itself, about "WWE Universe", about "Wrestlemania moments" and such trademarks nonsense that is about selling a brand, and not a wrestling match or star.

 

Vince believes he's in the "entertainment business" and that "WWE" is the star. In a way I guess it's smart since it pretty much means that no one is unique, there's no star bigger than the business like Hogan, Austin or Rock, and your audience is "WWE fans" and not fans of one individual. Everyone, as big as he is, is a cog in the "WWE Universe" even Cena who's a great cash cow, will never have the same status as Austin or Rock, although there's no reason he couldn't to me if they truly made him the Man. In a way, WWE became what ECW was, some sort of cult following. Tomorrow people would glady chant "Fuck Cena" if he went away for good to do movies not produced by WWE.

 

There doesn't need to be a Man anymore. It's all about the WWE brand, and people can come and go, it won't matter. But since there isn't many places to go to begin with, it's not like they can become a star somewhere else anyway, so it's the status quo. But it's also why the WWE is dull as dirt. It's also why HHH can still be around (well, that and the fact he fucked his way to the top). Nothing happens, ever.

WWE bought wrestling history so they can rewrite it and make money of off it although Vince apparently ain't no rassling promoter, and we're stuck with this awful product. Pro-wrestling is dead, long live WWE Universe, whatever that is supposed to be.

 

And sadly TNA has sunk to lows I wouldn't think imaginable in 2010, so it's not like there's any hope in the horizon.

[Sean Liska]

Vince likes to own his talent and things like this likely mean he'll need years before he trusts someone is "WWE 4 Life" enough to get an Austin-level push.

I think there's something to this and partly explains why Vince takes so long to pull the trigger on people now. The Jeff Hardy thing has to hurt so much. They give him the world title, he's extremely hot, has a great 8-month run as the top face on Smackdown, and then he quits and eventually shows up in TNA. You can see why Vince would become paranoid about who he gives his mega-pushes to.

[MJH]

I enjoy the WWE for what it is... all the "corporate wrestling" criticisms are absolutely spot-on, and really I agree with everything Jerome said. Shawn/Taker, for instance, was very much a "conscious Wrestlemania epic", in particular the first match which was structured as "do some simple stuff; reset spot - dives; long back-and-forth finishing stretch". But I thought both matches worked for what they were even if I wouldn't take them over Bret/Owen, say, or Bret/Austin. Actually a better comparison would be Austin/Rock at 17 and I'd take that, too, in a heartbeat. I don't think WWE are much worse than any other company around right now, though, as Dan said. I enjoy All Japan a lot, but I wouldn't make an argument for them as having a great wrestling product or anything. I've no idea why guys can't seem to work their "action" around a story... but that seems to be the prevailing thing.

[Al]

Just watched most of the show. (Still need to finish the last three matches.) Bret/Vince, just brutal. I understand they had to work a match where Bret couldn't take a bump. But ten minutes is just way too long for that. The crowd only popped for the sharpshooter, it didn't garner Bret any sympathy as the babyface, and at a point it just became uncomfortable to watch.

 

It seems to me that if you're going to book this type of match, it can't go longer than five minutes. I look at Lawler/Kaufmann. The match goes under six minutes, it features all of two moves and Lawler never takes a single bump. The crowd ate it up and it's one of the most memorable matches of all time. When the angle calls for a wrestler to get his comuppance, the crowd isn't going to complain that it didn't go 10 minutes.

[rovert]

I sorry guys but I just had to post this.

 

 

All kids and kids at heart who watched Mania need to play this:

http://kapaeme.deviantart.com/art/WrestleM...IFIED-159418712

[MJH]

Thats the greatest thing ever.

[Bix]

That was absolutely fantastic.

[S.L.L.]

His take on the Rumble wasn't half-bad, either:

 

http://kapaeme.deviantart.com/art/Royal-Ru...ified-152796668