The Thread Killer

No. I barely tried at all, yet managed to hit the mark dead on. It was uncanny, really. I actually managed to impress even myself. Like I said in my original post, it's a production thing. I know it sounds goofy (almost as goofy as dressing up like a wrestler to go to a live event) but they have this hardcore mentality of wanting the viewer at home focusing on the ring or wherever else the camera goes, at the expense of all else. I went to a RAW at the Skydome back in 98 with a guy who was studying Radio/TV production at the time and I remember him telling me it's like that at a lot of live television broadcasts, sporting or otherwise. I'm not sure if this is true, but he said he heard of some production people asking fans sitting in sightlines at live events to remove hats with the Nike symbol, or cover it up with electrical tape - and turn a t-shirt with a particular logo inside out. I don't know if that is because it was supposedly distracting, or because they weren't being paid by Nike as a sponsor, or they had a competing sponsor who didn't want their competitor's logo on the live TV broadcast, or what. Point is, they have some weird rules when it comes to what they'll allow to show up on camera, for legal, sponsorship or production reasons. I don't know that it means they're trying to kill the fun - they may have had other valid reasons. Or at least, reasons they thought were valid.

Any time I think of the possibilty of the Briscoes going to WWE, I always think of this promo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnzOZBtyP8Y I really like the Briscoes, but I don't think they have a hope in hell of suceeding in WWE, sadly.

I agree...that's what I'm saying. I really think that anything any fan does in sight of the camera that production thinks might distract the viewer is going to get removed...fans in costumes, clowns, whatever.

Except, there's a difference between walking out onto the street dressed like that vs. some kind of comic convention or live wrestling event. Those two scenarios are not exactly the same as "going out in public" and doing mundane things like shopping at the supermarket, buying coffee, etc. while fully dressed as Dr. Who or Sting. Even if it's not for you (and it's not for me either, truth be told), surely you can still see the distinction? I see the distinction, yes. But I also feel there is a difference between a fan convention and a live event. At a convention you're going to be around a ton of people in costume, at an event, probably not so much.

The other thing is merchandise. I don't know if it's true, but I read that if you have a hot selling T-shirt you can make more from that than your actual contract. Bryan will move a lot more merchandise with WWE than he would anywhere else, that's for sure.

I dressed as 1992 Shawn Michaels at a Halloween party and got laid after. Then I sold the costume on eBay for 400 dollars. It was awesome. That's totally different. That's wearing a costume to a costume party. Being a grown adult and dressing up like a wrestler when you are going to a live event, especially when you know the event is going to be televised, is basically just trying to bring attention to yourself - it's the equivilent of standing on your chair and screaming "hey everybody, look at me!" In other words, quite lame, in my opinion. Rumor has it that it was Kevin Dunn who ordered the costumed fans removed. From everything I have heard/read about Kevin Dunn, he is a jerk and I have little to no use for his decisions and opinions on pro wrestling. However, in his capacity as a television producer, he made the right decision in this case. When you are broadcasting a live event, you remove anything from the shot that is distracting the viewer from focusing on the action at hand. What those costumed fans were doing was the same as somebody walking up behing a reporter who is doing a live remote, and making faces at the camera, or jumping up and down. They were taking away from the shot, so they were stopped from doing so. Dunn wanted people at home watching the ring, not trying to figure who the guys in the outfits were, what they were doing there, and if they were part of the show. So you wouldn't object if they were seated further back? From a television production standpoint, no I would not. From a "damn that's goofy" standpoint, I'd still think it's goofy. Look...I understand that some people love to dress up and act goofy. This is why people go to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and Conventions, and Nickelback concerts. What I don't like is fans who go places and act in a manner that is clearly meant to distract away from the event at hand, or at the very least draw attention to themselves. I don't like fans who do things to try and "get themselves over" especially when it is at the expense of the product. In this particular case, you could make an argument that these fans weren't doing any particular harm - and there may be some merit to that argument. I freely admit I just don't get this whole dressing up thing. I get fandom, I get hardcore obsessive fandom. (Hell, that's why we are all here.) Look, I am a huge Doctor Who fan. I have every single episode of the show from it's entire 50 year history - including some of the non-canon audio adventures. I have a poster. I have a t-shirt. I have action figures. But I don't dress up like one of the Doctors and go out in public dressed like that - which I could, because a couple of them were quite stylish dressers. To me, that crosses the line between super-fandom and "hey look at me, I have issues." But that's just my opinion, so if you don't agree, you don't agree.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read No it isn't. You found it witty and yet at the same time intelligent, and you're a better person for having read it.

The problem is, a lot of the guys who get into the business do so with the specific dream of making it to WWE. Even those guys who end up making a living on the indies or in Japan/Mexico might not feel they really "made it" unless they work Wrestlemania. I think of the interviews Kurt Angle has given where he talks about meeting fans who think he quit wrestling after leaving WWE. I wonder if a lot of those guys are not as worried about the job satisfaction as they are the fame and wide exposure that comes with WWE. I have no doubt that Bryan would have better matches and deal with way less political nonsense if he was working a combination of ROH/NJPW, but you have to wonder if he would consider that not really making it. I think for a lot of these guys it's WWE or bust, sadly.

Bit of a buzzkill there mate. You might actually kill this thread. Never happen.

I dressed as 1992 Shawn Michaels at a Halloween party and got laid after. Then I sold the costume on eBay for 400 dollars. It was awesome. That's totally different. That's wearing a costume to a costume party. Being a grown adult and dressing up like a wrestler when you are going to a live event, especially when you know the event is going to be televised, is basically just trying to bring attention to yourself - it's the equivilent of standing on your chair and screaming "hey everybody, look at me!" In other words, quite lame, in my opinion. Rumor has it that it was Kevin Dunn who ordered the costumed fans removed. From everything I have heard/read about Kevin Dunn, he is a jerk and I have little to no use for his decisions and opinions on pro wrestling. However, in his capacity as a television producer, he made the right decision in this case. When you are broadcasting a live event, you remove anything from the shot that is distracting the viewer from focusing on the action at hand. What those costumed fans were doing was the same as somebody walking up behing a reporter who is doing a live remote, and making faces at the camera, or jumping up and down. They were taking away from the shot, so they were stopped from doing so. Dunn wanted people at home watching the ring, not trying to figure who the guys in the outfits were, what they were doing there, and if they were part of the show.

I feel if you're a grown person who feels the need to dress up like Sting, Goldust, or any other wrestler when you go to a live event, not only should you be barred from entering the arena, you should also be legally prohibited from reproducing. Having said that, it's a safe bet that guys who dress up like wrestlers are unlikely to ever have any form of sexual contact with a consenting female that doesn't involve money changing hands first, so perhaps the no reproduction law would be overkill.

Late to the party on this point, but I want to agree that Silas Young is all kinds of awesome. His injury couldn't have come at a worse time, since Steen gave him the rub on the way out. I am hoping ROH plans to push him to the moon when he returns. ProWrestling.net is reporting that WWE has signed Jimmy Jacobs to work in a behind the scenes capacity in NXT "soon", and that Joe will actually be going to WWE sooner rather than later. I would guess most ROH fans would view this as bad news, although Jimmy Jacobs being a loss is debatable. I never got his appeal, honestly. I don't think anybody expected Joe to stick around long term, but if this is to be believed, he'll be heading to WWE as early as the end of the month.

As I mentioned in the TNA thread, Spike has confirmed that they are having very preliminary conversations with ROH. Interesting. One of the things Viacom did for TNA was hire talents like Sting, who Panda Energy could not afford, yes? If ROH signed a deal with Spike, I wonder if Viacom would help them build the roster? Or would Viacom want to buy the whole deal from Sinclair? Would Sinclair be willing to have some sort of co-ownership deal with Viacom?

So it has been officially confirmed by Spike themselves that Ring Of Honor is in (very) preliminary talks with Spike TV. I find this interesting, but not because I care if ROH ends up on Spike. What I find interesting is that Spike are having talks with ANY pro wrestling company at ANY level. It shows that they are at least willing to consider the idea of being in the pro wrestling business again. TNA can no longer claim the reason they left Spike is only because Spike had NO interest in being in the wrestling business. The fact they are talking and admitted it proves that Spike are willing to at least talk to a pro wrestling compnay about doing business - as long as it's not TNA, who they were more than happy to get rid of, despite of the fact that TNA was bringing them high ratings (relatively speaking, for Spike TV.) Does this lend any credence to the theory that one of the main reasons Spike dumped TNA is because of their reluctance to get rid of Russo, and then lying about the fact they did?

He isn't related to Stan Hansen, according to Hansen. JR asked him on his podcast and Hansen denied it.

So The Washington Post picked up this story today, and have added to the pile, talking about how DeMott also covered up sexual harassment. This doesn't seem to be blowing over like I thought it might...at least yet.

Don't want to nitpick, but Denucci probably drew as much money in Australia as Foley did in his whole career. He was also a staple headliner in North East secondary markets in the late 60s and early 70s before settling into the Gatekeeper role most people know him for. I'd be interested to see, adjusted for inflation, who drew more money in their career, Denucci or Foley. I don't think it's a slamdunk for Foley, Dominic was huge in the Aussie WCW. That's not nitpicking. I did not know that. Interesting. I suppose I should have picked another wrestler who trained people that I thought didn't draw money. What about The Unpredictable Johnny Rodz? Over to my boy Kelly here, but as Java Farook he was at least a headliner in LA, and a fairly sizable star. People forget that New York was a major pay-day territory and that guys like Denucci and Rodz, who settled into midcard and JTTS roles as homesteaders, had actually "made it" to an extent. As in, they didn't have to travel the country anymore looking for work. Working the opener at MSG might have got them the same amount of money as headlining in some other places. Why do you think they stayed there 15+ years? It was a cushy gig. Tito Santana also told us that Rodz was a real leader in the locker room; he was an important part of Vince Sr's setup. I am going to have to break off into my own thread, where I name random wrestlers who I think have never drawn money and operated wrestling schools...then sit back and wait for the responses: "How about so-and-so?" "Nope, he sold out an arena in Wichita in 1973!" Larry Sharpe? Eddie Sharkey? My whole point was, I felt that guys who didn't "draw money" could still run a training school that gradulated guys who would.

Don't want to nitpick, but Denucci probably drew as much money in Australia as Foley did in his whole career. He was also a staple headliner in North East secondary markets in the late 60s and early 70s before settling into the Gatekeeper role most people know him for. I'd be interested to see, adjusted for inflation, who drew more money in their career, Denucci or Foley. I don't think it's a slamdunk for Foley, Dominic was huge in the Aussie WCW. That's not nitpicking. I did not know that. Interesting. I suppose I should have picked another wrestler who trained people that I thought didn't draw money. What about The Unpredictable Johnny Rodz?

His third book is especially bad in this regard. He comes across as such an obnoxious, drunken asshole. I don't blame Punk for distancing himself from Jericho. I know, right? I could not BELIEVE how bad Jericho comes off in that book. How could he not have read that before it went to press and said "Wow, I'm really obnoxious and unlikeable!" I used to like Jericho but he sounds like an awful person now. It reminds me of how I was a huge Foley fan from when I first saw him during his first run on WCW, up until Have a Nice Day. Then from Foley Is Good onward? Not so much.

Ever the good employee. He'll crop up somewhere else. We all know how they are with this kind of stuff. I'd bet hard money that they asked him to resign, and told him they'd call him when the storm blows over. They have done this many times with other guys, Fit Finlay being the most recent example I can think of, off the top of my head. They obviously just want this to go away for now, and then they will quietly slip him in somewhere a year from now.

I have to say I do not agree with the concept that in order to train somebody, you had to have "drawn money" yourself. Look at some of the guys who have drawn money. Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair spring to mind. Here are a couple of guys who have no concept whatsoever of the truth. None. I once saw Hulk Hogan claim with a straight face that Andre The Giant weighed almost 900 pounds when Hogan slammed him at WM3, and that Andre died "shortly after." Neither of these facts are anywhere even close to being true, but Hogan has no issue saying them. Ric Flair gave more than one interview where he claimed he was at the arena the night Bruiser Brody was murdered, even though he was not in Puerto Rico that night, and it can be proven. My point is, both of these guys are top names who drew a ton of money, but if you put them in front of a class of new trainees, you couldn't believe a damn thing that came out of their mouths. But hey...they drew money! Conversely, look at a guy like Dominic DeNucci. I am not much of a Foley fan anymore, but if you read the chapters in his book about his training with DeNucci, you certainly get the impression that he worked hard, learned the basic fundamentals, and came out of DeNucci's school better off for having trained with him. Should Foley not have listened to DeNucci because he never drew money (aside from when he was teamed with Bruno, I guess?) Baseball is a great comparison. In my opinion, Ty Cobb was the greatest hitter of all time. He was also pretty much a washout as a human being, and when he managed a team, they never won the division and most of his players hated his guts. Here is a guy many people consider the greatest of all time, but he was unable to transfer his knowledge to others. But if you look at a guy like Buck Showalter, he never even made it to the Major Leagues during his career, but he has a proven track record of being able to manage and really help younger talent. Last year, he won Manager of the Year and took a team that didn't even contend the year before to the ALDS. Should the players have said "I'm sorry, you never even played in the Major Leagues...I'm not listening to you. We should hire Barry Bonds!" EDIT: I was posting this at the same time Parties was posting his response, both of us basically presenting the same argument. He just managed to do it more succicntly and efficiently than I did.

That's an interesting question and a fair point. I used to write a column for 411, and I wrote one called "Remember The Renegade" about Rick Williams who played The Renegade in WCW. (At the time I was fairly proud of it, but when I read it now, it makes me cringe.) It was about how WCW made Rick Williams famous, then basically hung him out to dry, and he ended up committing suicide. Anyhow, I got an email from an independent wrestler who was actually friends with Rick Williams during his days as "Reo Lord of the Jungle." This guy loved my column and thanked me for writing about Rick Williams. We struck up an online friendship. During the course of our relationship, this person got signed by the WWE developmental system. At the request of the individual, I will not disclose their name. I can only say that they were in the WWE developmental system for a significant period of time, they did end up getting called up, but were used only sparingly on the "B shows" and after a while they ended up getting released. This person went back to the indies where he is still somewhat active today, although he maintains a day job so he is not as active as he once was. A lot of you may not have even heard of them, although some of you probably have. I still chat with them on an infrequent basis to this day. (Wish them Merry Christmas, etc.) When he got signed, I asked him why guys who already knew how to wrestle and in some cases had been doing it for years, had to be "trained." He said there were two reasons... First, since the demise of WCW, ECW and anything else remotely resembling competition, WWE does not want to bring in any Professional Wrestler who has any kind of fame or buzz from any other organization other than WWE. They don't want you thinking you deserve recognition based on anything you did yourself. THEY will make you a star, there is no way you could already be one. In fact, if you came into WWE developmental with any sort of "name" it would actually work against you. The first thing they would do is give you the "just because you can make 200 marks chant for you in a high school gym in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't mean you're ready for the big time" speech. WWE honestly thinks that in order for anybody to be successful and get over, they have to be remade by the WWE, which includes retraining, and being renamed. That serves two purposes - firstly they can take credit for your success with the "you were nobody until we made you" line, and secondly they end up owning your name so you can't use it elsewhere. This is why 99.9 percent of guys in WWE developmental end up being given a generic name, even if their present name is perfectly serviceable. Your birth name could really be Rick Strong, and they'd still rename you Mike McRough, because in their minds, Rick Strong was a nobody and Mike McRough belongs to THEM. I was shocked CM Punk was allowed to remain CM Punk. My friend told me that WWE pushed for him to drop the "CM" and just be "Punk" but Punk refused and Heyman backed him up, and Heyman was in charge of OVW at that time. Daniel Bryan is a perfect example. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with Bryan Danielson as a ring name, except WWE didn't give it to him. Apparently, Bryan is much more of a "go along to get along" type guy, so he agreed to change his name, and gladly did his drills and accepted his training, even though by the time he ended up in WWE developmental he had already been in countless classic matches...more than the people training him had ever had. Secondly, one of the things they drill into you is that "less is more." My friend told me that one of the guest trainers he worked out for was Pat Patterson, and that after meeting Pat Patterson his attitude changed dramatically. He pointed out that he (and many of his fellow wrestlers) had been executing high risk moves for little to no pay, a lot of the time when it wasn't even being filmed - but that in WWE developmental they teach you another way. Apparently Pat Patterson showed the trainees tape of crowds going apeshit for big name WWE stars executing moves that were in no way risky - the "people's elbow" is a great example - and his point was that you don't have to risk your health or the health of your opponent if you can train the crowds to accept low risk moves as something special. I guess they also use The Undertaker as an example of this philosophy...if you look at a lot of his work, especially in his early WWF years, he barely moved, he never sold, but he got over like gangbusters. I guess they LOVE to point out that before they got a hold of him, he was just Mean Mark, one half of The Skyscrapers, but after they transformed him he became one of the biggest stars of all time. My friend told me that in WWE developmental he also learned that IF you were going to bust out a "highspot" then it had better be special, it better be on TV or a PPV, and most importantly it had better be caught on camera. A lot of people call this "WWE style" which is basically getting rid of high risk or flashy offense and trying to make basic moves into big moves. I recently saw an interview with Fergal Devitt/Finn Balor. He said that when he came into WWE developmental he thought he pretty much knew it all, but he had no idea how to work facing a TV camera. I guess there is a "hard camera" on all WWE TV shows, and one of the things they train you for and drill into your head is every move you make including mugging for the camera has to be facing a certain way. Even a guy like KENTA is not immune to this attitude. Sure, he has been a pro for 15 years, and was a huge star in Japan...but that style is too high impact and he still doesn't know WWE style, proper WWE psychology, or how to work to the camera. I'm not saying I agree with the attitude, but that is apparently what they think. In a lot of cases, it is almost like a cult mentality, they want to break you down, "untrain" you and then retrain you in the "right" way. And if you do succeed, it's because of what they taught you and what they gave you.

What concerns me is the allegations that DeMott slapped somebody in the head who had a concussion, and allegedly kicked somebody's injured leg (which was in a cast) deliberately. If either of these allegations can be substantiated, that's ridiculous and he should be canned on the spot. Sounds like the allegations are really starting to pile up, including some from Dolph Ziggler's younger brother. We'll see if they get enough critical mass to force WWE to do something. Normally I'd say Vince and Co. would ignore this until the end, but now that they have stockholders they are much more wary of negative stories in the press, no? What kills me are the other wrestlers who were in no way involved, coming out of the woodwork to defend DeMott with one of two ridiculous comebacks: 1) "If it's true they should have said something at the time rather than complaining after they were released - now it just sounds like sour grapes!" or 2) "Back when I was trained, my trainer abused me all the time and you never heard me complain about it! These kids nowadays need to be tougher!" Because of course, nobody has ever kept silent in an abusive workplace out of fear of losing their job...and there is a big difference between taking a million bumps, getting stretched, etc. and being verbally humiliated by somebody who you can't answer back to, or even worse, being physically assaulted. As a grumpy old guy myself, I'll be the first one to complain that today's younger generation are a bunch of whiny, entitled, emo cry-babies, who should sack up, find some testosterone and stop thinking the solution to all of life's problems is a quiet talk and a big hug...but there is NO excuse for verbally degrading and humiliating people who can't defend themselves out of fear, and roughing up injured trainees. I laughed when I saw Chris Jericho tweeted support for DeMott, and then rapidly yanked the tweet when some of the alleged victims fired back at him. I recently read all three of Jericho's books, and his change in personality and demeanor over the course of the books is alarming. He's quite the asshole now, and his defending DeMott and then backing off is right in character.

How is his selling? That was my main bitch against him (and Moose too.) They both had a good look and solid offense but I thought both of them were weak when it came to selling. EDIT: I should clarify...I don't mean no-selling. I can almost deal with that. I mean both of them had a similar idea of selling offense from their opponent... - stumble one step backward - shake your head in confusion - if REALLY selling, then wave your arms around like a windmill.

ROH announced three super shows with New Japan Pro Wrestling in May of this year. The names of the NJPW talents appearing have not been released… RING OF HONOR WRESTLING® AND NEW JAPAN PRO-WRESTLING® TO PRESENT 3 SUPER SHOWS THIS MAY IN NORTH AMERICA BOTH PHILADELPHIA AND TORONTO TO HOST THESE EVENTS Ring of Honor Wrestling® (“ROH”) is happy to announce that we will once again partner with New Japan Pro-Wrestling® to present three must-see super shows for pro wrestling fans. Details available at this time include the dates & locations of the three events. ROH & NJPW stars will be announced at a later date. WAR OF THE WORLDS ’15 will be held Wednesday, May 13th, 2015 in Philadelphia at the 2300 Arena, formerly known worldwide as the ECW Arena. Tickets are on sale now for Ringside members now and go on sale to the general public Friday, February 27th @ 10am Est. GLOBAL WARS ’15 will be held on Friday, May 15th and Saturday, May 16th, 2015 at the Ted Reeve Arena, located in Toronto, Ontario. Tickets are on sale now for both events. The COO of ROH Joe Koff when asked about the events said: “We’re very excited to once again bring the stars of New Japan to our great fans. New Japan Pro-Wrestling is a fantastic partner with exceptional wrestlers and we always strive to give our fans an experience of a lifetime. With these three stacked events, showcasing the best wrestlers in the world, we will do just that.” I am torn on this one. I went to Global Wars in Toronto last year, and the experience I had was so bad, I swore off ever going to a live ROH show again, mostly due to the fact that the fans all around me were acting like a bunch of fucking morons. On the flip side, I really like NJPW and how often do you get a chance to see them live, in such an intimate venue? I think I'll wait to see how the card shapes up, but at this point, I think I'd wait to see if it is going to be on PPV or iPPV before going to the live show again, even though it is in my home town.