The Thread Killer

I watched the show with a bunch of friends and their wives and kids, at a large social gathering. It was an interesting way to watch a WWE event, as opposed to the way I do it usually, watching either by myself or with another hardcore fan, and looking at it with a more critical eye, almost like I am looking for things to complain about. Maybe it was the festive atmosphere or something, but I went into Night One of SummerSlam 2025 with very low expectations, assuming I would not enjoy the show at all, (especially after Night of Champions) but I have to admit I really enjoyed it and I felt the show really over-delivered, especially considering the quality of the card. Maybe if I rewatched it looking for flaws I might find some and be less impressed, but as of last night, I thought it was a lot of fun. -> Reigns & Uso vs. Breakker & Reed: I loved that opener. They gave them plenty of time, and they worked the traditional Tag Team style for the most part, which made me very happy. There will be plenty of time tonight for matches with everybody in the ring all at once, doing whatever they want. But they actually did an extended face-in-peril/hot tag sequence during this match, and it made me very happy. Roman looks awesome, and that dive of his was insane. Like @sek69 said, he pretty much almost accidentally cleared the crowd, although he wisely grabbed Bronson Reed at the very last second and kind of dragged him down with him. Reed played his role great, and if Bron Breakker isn't ready for a Main Event push right now, he's certainly not far off. I've said it before and I'll say it again (and it's hardly a controversial take) but that kid is money. I know a lot of people online were clamoring for Breakker to pin Roman during this match to make it official and really establish himself, but I'm not sure a Tag Match was the platform to do that. Eventually, he needs to get a big singles win that really puts him over the top. Unfortunately, he apparently injured his knee during this match, so I just hope it's not too bad. -> Women's Tag Team Championship: Minor quibble, I don't know why they ran the Women's Tag Team Title match right after a Men's Tag Team match, but whatever. This whole angle continues to subvert my expectations. I totally expected Charlotte to turn on Alexa, and I certainly did not expect them to win the titles. I figured Rodriguez and Perez would hang on to those belts until Liv Morgan returns, especially since I figured Charlotte for betraying Alexa. Maybe they called an audible because the Flair/Bliss team seems to be getting so popular. There's no doubt that Charlotte seems to really want to be a babyface right now, so more power to her, I guess. This match was pretty good. It wasn't as good as the opener, but it certainly wasn't a bad match, so I have no complaints. -> Zayn vs. Kross: Ugh. I am so over this ridiculous Zayn/Kross angle. Please let this be the end of it. It was never good, it was never compelling, and the fact that this match ended up on SummerSlam while Penta, LA Knight, Sheamus, Rusev, Damien Priest, Aleistar Black and the entire RAW Tag Team division couldn't get on the show? To quote Gorilla Monsoon, "give me a break." I'm not as enamored with Sami Zayn as most people around here are, and Kross is just okay at best. This whole deal needs to go away now. -> Women's Championship: I never would have figured that Roxanne Perez and Asuka wouldn't be able to pull a watchable match out of Jade Cargill, but that Tiffany Stratton would be able do it. I fully agree with @NintendoLogic in that was definitely the best singles match Cargill has had in WWE. It wasn't exactly Flair/Steamboat (or Flair/Ripley I guess) but I'll take it. Maybe the agent/producer did a really good job of laying it out. Mind you, Cargill's power based style and Stratton's flashy gymnastic style seem to mesh really well together. It was hardly a great match, and as per usual there were a couple of moments where Jade looked totally lost in there, but it was miles better than I expected, or it had any right to be. And thank goodness, the right person won. The Women's division is not ready to have Jade Cargill and Naomi holding the respective World Championships, because neither of them are really good workers, in my humble opinion. My final observation is that, in addition to being less than impressive when she wrestles, I don't "get" Jade Cargill as a character. After Naomi turned on her, I assumed that she was meant to be a babyface. But she sure doesn't act like one. I remember that weird promo she caught after winning Queen of the Ring, which sure sounded like a heel promo. And I swear, it looked like while she was on her way to the ring last night she was arguing with the fans. IF she's supposed to be a babyface, she does a terrible job at coming across, and if she isn't, that's just weird booking. -> Orton & Jelly Roll vs. McIntyre & Paul: One of the main reasons I wasn't really all that enthused about this show is because of this match. I hate celebrity matches. I hated them when the WWF did them in the 80's, I hated them when WCW did them in the 90's and I hate them now. I was especially crusty about this match because I had literally never heard of "Jelly Roll" before she showed up on WWE TV. When I saw him, I thought he looked like some dumpy looking meth addict. But apparently TKO has made it clear that they love celebrities, cross promotion, and the media attention which comes with it, so here we are, I guess. As I mentioned, I was at a pretty big social gathering last night, and I'll be damned if all of the people there came into the room to watch this match...including the non-WWE fans, and especially the kids. I guess people have heard of "Jelly Roll" and I'm the one who is out of touch. (I can live with that.) All of the non-fans in the room absolutely loved this match, so what do I know. People kept talking about how much weight Jelly Roll has lost, so I assume he used to be a big fat guy? As far as the match? It was what it was. Like the Women's Title match, this was WAY better than I had expected it to be. I'll give Jelly Roll credit where it's due, he seems like a legit fan of Pro Wrestling, he did his best and he didn't treat this like a joke. Unsurprisingly, the MVP of this match was Logan Paul. I know a lot of people hate the guy for stuff he has done before signing with WWE, but much like with Jelly Roll, I had the luxury of not knowing anything about him before he showed up to wrestle. I know who his brother is, and I heard about that stunt he pulled in Japan a few years ago, but that was it. But I'm sorry, even if you hate Logan Paul...the dude is just a natural. He plays a great heel, his promos and facial expressions are outstanding and he's a freakish athlete. That spot with him leaping off the ring post, onto Jelly Roll on the announcer's table was done to perfection. Bottom line is, I actually found myself enjoying this nonsense, despite the fact that I went into it determined not to...so there you go. -> World Heavyweight Championship: This and the opening Tag Team match were the main reasons I wanted to see this show. What can you say? I loved the way they laid out this match. Gunther got to be Gunther at his all time Guntheriest. He basically beat the ever-loving crap out of Punk, using every move in his not unsubstantial arsenal, for what felt like about 27 of the 30 minutes of this match. He pretty much dominated Punk, and Punk did an awesome job of selling it. These guys were great together, it was a very intelligently worked match, and I definitely want to see more of these guys together. As far as the finish, I have no complaints. Firstly, love him or hate him, Punk is one of their top guys so there is no shame in him winning the World Championship. And as sek mentioned earlier, word has leaked that Gunther needs some sort of surgery on his nose (which they appeared to set up in this match with the spot on the announcers table) so this probably had to happen. Great damn match. I haven't perused the review sites or Twitter or Reddit today, and I'm guessing there are a lot of people who have complaints about this match, but I really enjoyed it. -> Seth Rollins Returns: If I was Triple H and Nick Khan, I would find out who leaked this angle to John Pollock and fire their ass. This could have been a real shocking moment, except Pollock broke the story around the time of Saturday Night's Main Event and pretty much spoiled it. Pollock is a known and respected name in Pro Wrestling journalism, so when he broke the story a lot of people believed him, and so as soon as Punk won the title I was waiting for Seth's music to start playing...and there it was. As far as the angle itself? I think it's a bad idea. I don't like Rollins as a Main Event guy. I find him annoying sure, but even worse I find him to be boring. I have joked about this here at PWO, but I swear, when Rollins is heavily featured on RAW, the shows always seem more boring and seem to drag. The thing is, the Netflix views and rankings seem to bear that out as well. The numbers are not as good when he is featured in the opening segment. But for whatever reason, Triple H seems to love this guy, so I guess we're getting a lot more of him...and for my money that's not a good thing. I am very curious to see where this goes from here, does Punk continue his feud with Rollins and go after the title, or does Gunther go after Punk for injuring his nose? And if that's the case, who ends up challenging Rollins next? There were rumors of a program between LA Knight and Rollins, but who knows what the status of that is. I'm interested to see...but since it involves Seth Rollins, my interest is kind of muted. Overall: This was a fun show, I'd say it was very good and really over-delivered. The only real stinker was the Zayn/Kross match, and the fact that yet another fun Main Event ended up being kind of spoiled by a "cash in." Thankfully, both Rollins and Naomi have cashed in their contracts, so we don't have to worry about that again until after next June. On paper, the show tonight looked like the better card (in theory) so we'll see how this pans out for Night Two.

So what’s your take on that supposed Cena face turn? It’s got to be bogus, right?

Oh man, that’s sad. I remember he and the Cuban Assassin fighting Chris Benoit and Beef Wellington, and later, The British Bulldogs. And he was such a great promo. Great Stampede memories.

As is usually the case when he does an obituary segment, I thought Cornette’s coverage of Hogan’s death was historically accurate, insightful and remarkably even handed, especially considering the fact that Hogan became a Trump guy over the past couple of years, and we all know how much Cornette loves Trump. I usually assume that if anything comes up that involves Trump on even a peripheral level, Cornette is going to totally lose his shit and start screaming profanities. What I found especially humourous was the follow up piece. The response to Cornette’s podcast about Hogan pretty much encapsulates Pro Wrestling tribalism and overall online discourse in general nowadays. On one hand, he had people that were angry he wasn’t more complementary towards Hogan and wasn’t just blindly praising the guy, and on the other hand, he had people that were irate that he even mentioned Hogan at all because they think his name should be blotted from the history books. Cornette sounded legitimately flabbergasted at the two totally divergent responses he was getting to the exact same segment. I had to wonder if he doesn’t pay attention when he uses Twitter, and I had to laugh at the irony that he has been one of the people who has helped contribute to the almost toxic levels of tribalism that exist in Pro Wrestling fandom right now. You helped create the zombies, Jimbo. Don’t act surprised when they bite you.

Now somebody needs to talk to him about his ring gear. It looks like a bad spandex superhero outfit, or a leotard with a speedo covering it, with half a fringe vest stapled to his butt. It’s distractingly weird. EDIT: I just figured it out…he’s wearing part of Colton Gunn’s tights over top of his own, so his gear matches Austin Gunn. It still looks really odd.

It happened three times during the show, I don’t think it was a production error.

Normally, when somebody who I didn't care for passes away, I tend to either not say anything at all, or at the very least say something kind of bland and non-committal. I've never been one to celebrate a person's death, as I find that kind of behavior to be tasteless and rather ghoulish, and I don't much like the idea of trampling on somebody's grave. But as a Pro Wrestling fan, what do you do with Hulk Hogan? I was a 14 year old kid when "Hulkamania" first hit, and I lived through the Hulkamania era. I don't mean to sound like the proverbial old man, talking about "back in my day" but suffice it to say, if you didn't experience the 80's Pro Wrestling boom firsthand, it's hard to overstate how popular Hulk Hogan and the WWF really were...especially in the Northeast where we had no exposure to Jim Crockett Promotions and "Southern" Regional Pro Wrestling. I mean...this dude was EVERYWHERE. The cover of Sports Illustrated, hosting Saturday Night Live, the Tonight Show. His merchandise was everywhere. Toys, T-Shirts, Vitamins, Posters, you name it. Basically, there was a good portion of time during the 80's where Hulk Hogan WAS Pro Wrestling. He ended up transcending his own industry and became a household name. At his peak, there was nobody on earth who didn't know the name Hulk Hogan. I have heard the argument made that Vince McMahon could have picked any number of musclehead Pro Wrestlers and slotted them into Hogan's spot, and they would have been just as successful. I'm not sure I buy that. I think Hogan was pretty much the perfect guy for that role, that he and McMahon were pretty much made for each other (in both good and terribly bad ways.) And let's be honest, while a large number of WWF guys got super-popular during the 80's, Hogan pretty much carried that entire organization on his back, all while working a schedule which is almost unbelievable when you look at it now. Back then, guys were literally working every night of the week, and twice a day on weekends. As I have mentioned many times here at PWO, I was a regular attendee at Maple Leaf Gardens, and they ran shows every three weeks. I can't even count the number of times I saw Hulk Hogan wrestle. Don Muraco, King Kong Bundy, Killer Khan, Kamala, tag matches with Andre the Giant, and most notably the "Big Event" where he fought Paul Orndorff in front of 62,000 fans in Toronto. Funny thing is, I was never a "Hulkamaniac." I never bought into the "Train, Say Your Prayers and Eat Your Vitamins" shtick, even as a kid. I had plenty of friends who did, but my favorite wrestler in that era was Jake Roberts...which probably tells you all you need to know about me as a kid. But facts are facts, Hulk Hogan was a hero to a lot of little kids back in those days...and I mean a LOT of kids. And he may probably go down in history as the most famous Pro Wrestler who ever lived. And you can certainly make the argument that he helped make the sport so popular, that a lot of the things many people still love about Pro Wrestling today can be attributed to him. And I do believe he deserves credit for that. As far as Hulk Hogan as a human being? His legacy is obviously much more mixed. I think he tended to be paranoid and selfish a lot of the time. The whole "That doesn't work for me, brother" mentality was definitely not a positive thing. And there is no excuse for some of his behavior later in life, the compulsive (and easily disprovable) lying for no discernible reason, the drugs, the exploitation of his own family for continued fame, and most notably of course...the racism. "Hulk Hogan" the character literally inspired a lot of little kids to work hard and act heroic. If only the guy who played that character had believed even a fraction of what he was saying, and tried to live up to his own supposed ideals, then we wouldn't have to have watched the slow decline and total collapse of the legacy of Hulk Hogan over the years. It's kind of sad that in his last major appearance in WWE, he was booed out of the building, but what's even sadder was the interview he gave on Pat McAfee's show about the incident weeks later. Hulk Hogan either actually believed that he had been booed because of things he had done as a heel 25 years earlier, or he expected the fans to believe it...and that's even worse. Not only was he a lying carny, but he wasn't even good at being a lying carny, and considering how much practice he had, that's almost worse. Remember that nostalgia run Hulk Hogan had after Wrestlemania 18? Do you remember that insane ovation he got in Montreal, on Smackdown in April 2002? (Not to be confused with the one he got in Montreal the night after Wrestlemania 18.) I wish he had just retired then. Before most of the bullshit interviews full of lies. Before "Hogan Knows Best." Before the sex tape, and the racist language came to light. I wish we could all remember Hulk Hogan fondly. It's sad that his legacy went to hell, but he did it to himself. I'm not going to feel bad about talking about all the bad things he did...because he's the one that did them, not me. Hulk Hogan could have been remembered as a great guy, but he generally didn't act like a great guy, so that's on him. I feel bad for the fans who loved the character he played. I feel bad for his friends and family. But I guess in the end, you reap what you sow. I texted one of my oldest buddies, who is a couple years younger than I am. He was about 12 when Hulkamania was "running wild" and he was a die hard Hulkamaniac (a fact which I have taunted him about relentlessly over the years.) I asked him if he had heard that Hulk Hogan had died. He said that he did, and he said that it made him surprisingly sad, but it felt like part of his childhood had died. And then he said something which pretty much sums this whole thing up: "When I was a kid, Hulk Hogan was my hero. Too bad Terry Bollea was a bad human being."

Having to watch Jon Moxley is like measuring the age of a dog. They say one year for a human is like seven “dog years.” Seeing Jon Moxley promos and matches are similar. Moxley might have returned a year ago, but it feels like it’s been seven years. So in order to balance this out, he should take a seven year hiatus.

I can’t believe they are booking The Hardys vs The Dudleys in 2025. Matt Hardy can barely walk, and D-Von hasn’t wrestled in years, because he had a stroke, ffs. Apparently D-Von has been doing DDP Yoga, lost almost 100 lbs, and is doing much better…but still. Does anybody honestly want to see these two teams face off at this point?

I was thinking the same thing when I looked at the card last night. On paper, that looks like a show worth seeing. But I also have faith in TNA’s ability to screw that up somehow. I think one of the main problems with the NXT/TNA relationship (aside from the obvious fact that it is not an equal partnership and is clearly designed to be to WWE’s advantage) is the shitty creative that has come along with it. Let’s face it. Hunter “Delirious” Johnson is a terrible booker, and despite the fact that he may very well have been one of the all-time greats as a performer, NXT creative has sucked since Shawn Michaels took over. He might be a decent coach, but NXT has done nothing since Michaels has been in charge that would lead me to believe he is capable of booking a compelling product. Doing an interpromotional storyline would be hard enough with a good creative in place, but with Johnson and Michaels, combined with TKO’s mission statement of screwing over every company they work with…yikes.

On top of everything else, it probably doesn’t help them that the Bash card was not one little bit compelling. When you are advertising a TNA contract signing on your PLE, can you really be surprised when people opted to watch the competition instead? I’ve heard good things about the Page vs. Saints Falls-Count-Anywhere match and I have been meaning to check it out. At the time, I opted to watch All In live as it happened, a decision I have mixed feelings about. The NXT show might not have been as good but it also wasn’t 6 hours, plus pre-show. The whole stupid concept of “running against” the competition really needs to go away now. It’s not 1988 anymore. Thanks to streaming, you can easily watch one show live, and then go back and watch the competing show whenever you want. You’re really not missing anything. The whole thing just comes across as being extremely petty and dumb on the part of WWE. And then Tony Khan apparently admitted that one of the reasons they ran so long with the AEW PPV was to cut into Saturday Night’s Main Event. TKO needs to accept that AEW is a thing, and isn’t going away. And although I don’t generally prefer their style of professional wrestling, there’s no way anybody with a brain can say that the industry isn’t better off because of AEW’s existence.

Evolution wasn’t a bad show, but the end to that Main Event was ridiculous. Sky and Ripley pretty much killed themselves, putting on an excellent Main Event, only to have it pretty spoiled by Naomi’s involvement.

I had assumed she was either injured or in the doghouse after she disappeared following Money in the Bank weekend. She worked both major shows that weekend, and then pretty much dropped off the face of the earth. I guess she must be in the good books still if she won that Battle Royal and is getting the shot at Clash in Paris.

I am about half-an-hour behind, but based on the fan reaction Charlotte is getting, a lot of these fans must have read that article she wrote this past week for the Players Tribune.

Yeah, WWE feeling the need to compulsively counter-program AEW is just plain stupid. All they are really accomplishing is pissing off the hardcore fans, and contributing to the stupid tribalism by the online neckbeards.

Becky Lynch clearly raided Seth’s wardrobe for that ring robe.

I’d say. How many other Pro Wrestling “legends” would be okay with getting choked out, flat on their back, in their final match ever? Especially when their whole gimmick their entire career was practically never losing?

Goldberg sold more during that match than he did the rest of his career combined. And full credit to him for going out on his back. I honestly didn’t think he would do that. To be honest, that was about the best you could expect from that match, considering the circumstances.

I can’t believe the Main Event is starting now, when there’s almost 20 minutes left in the show.

Yeah I was going to say the same thing. If that wasn’t a shoot injury, it was just plain weird.

But then we might have missed out on that song from JoJo Offerman and I enjoyed that almost as much as I enjoyed the performance by Jelly Roll on Smackdown last night.

Apparently they got quite the late rush for tickets and are up around 27,000 which is great for AEW. And the place looks great, but you’re right…either they didn’t do a great job getting mics placed in the crowd, or they’re kind of lukewarm.

So apparently, this past week's episode of RAW was the lowest rated of the "Netflix Era." Call me crazy, but as somebody who watches the show every week, I can't help but notice the direct correlation between the fact that the episodes which heavily feature Seth Rollins (especially Seth Rollins promos and segments) tend to be less exciting to watch, and inevitably they are much more poorly received. RAW had been on a bit of a roll, the last couple of episodes prior to this week were actually really good TV. And then? More Rollins, less good. I think a good rule of thumb is that if you are forced to listen to that stupid Seth Rollins theme and the fans singing along with it more than once an episode, you're in for a bad show. It doesn't help that Rollins is starting to get a bit of a Triple H vibe going. The guys who are just underneath to him in the pecking order are basically being fed to him, and it kind of sucks. He beat Penta in the Main Event of RAW this past week, and I really don't see LA Knight beating him on Saturday. Both guys are very popular with the fans, but we all know what the result is going to be when they get fed to Rollins. You can dress this dude up however you want, and put him with Heyman, and the hotter young talent as his henchmen, but I still don't think it makes Seth Rollins work.

I guess as with most things, it comes down to a matter of personal preference. Some people like multi-person matches, and that's certainly their prerogative. Personally, as a Pro Wrestling fan...I don't like multi-person matches, and in some cases, I have come to hate them. I probably wouldn't feel this way if not for the fact that I think they are terribly overdone. You can basically go back to the mid-nineties when the Triple Threat/"Three Way Dance" was first popularized and chart from then until now, and the number of multi-person matches in every promotion, year to year, just starts increasing at a ridiculous rate. When they happened once in a while, these kinds of matches were a novelty, but now you'd be hard pressed to find a Pro Wrestling TV show or PPV that doesn't feature multi-person matches. It's too much, in my opinion. My main argument with them is twofold. Firstly, quite honestly I think multi-person matches quite frequently indicate a lack of imaginative booking. Like it basically boils down to: "We've got a bunch of people with nothing to do on this show, so I'll throw them into this big clusterfuck match." It's great that these kind of matches ensure that everybody on the card gets some sort of match and a payday and nobody gets left out...but just like modern "hardcore" matches, these matches tend to be very "samey" and forgettable. My second and biggest complaint with multi-person matches is that they inevitably end up turning into a stunt show and any form of Pro Wrestling psychology ends up going out the window. If I never ever saw another match where a big crowd of competitors ended up standing around outside the ring, waiting for somebody to crisscross the ring and jump over the top rope so they could be caught, I could die a happy man. I freely admit, I am much more of an old school traditional Pro Wrestling fan. I much prefer a slower, more deliberate pace that gives the match time to breathe. Traditional selling usually goes out the window during these matches because everybody has to "get their shit in." I find the aspect of Pro Wrestling which has suffered the most because of multi-person matches is traditional Tag Team wrestling, so-called "Southern Style." I hate multi-team matches. As soon as you introduce a third team, you can pretty much forget about the traditional "face in peril/hot tag" aspect of the tag match, because it just becomes another example of everybody running around, trying to get their moves in. Of course, multi-person matches sometimes try and portray some semblance of psychology, but that inevitably leads to the same thing, every damn time. One of the odd numbered participants or teams ends up taking a maneuver or bump that in a normal match would be just a simple spot...but because it's a multi-person match, they basically need to get out of the way...so the competitor takes the bump, rolls out of the ring, and disappears from sight for five minutes, so the match can return to a traditional structure for a while. And none of that is even getting into the political aspect of those matches, like @sek69 mentioned...when you pretty much know going into the match who is going to take the fall. Having said all that, I'm not saying that all multi-person matches are inherently bad, or anything like that. Hell, Drew McIntyre vs. Sheamus vs. Gunther at Wrestlemania 39 is one of the best matches in Wrestlemania history, in my opinion. Similarly, the Rhea vs. Iyo vs. Bianca match from this past year was probably the best match from this year's Wrestlemania...either night. And I get that in places like Mexico, Trios matches are just as traditional and important as singles matches, if not more so. I'm not saying multi-person matches don't have their place, I just think they are grossly overdone and have had an overall detrimental effect on booking patterns and Pro Wrestling psychology in general. But time marches on, I guess. There's probably no putting that genie back in the bottle at this point.

Damn that was a really good episode of Raw. Lot of great stuff in there.