Cross Face Chicken Wing

Of course the idea is to change the overall direction and you use the biggest star you have as that catalyst. If people thought the WWE was capable of being innovative enough to take on this direction shift, then they'd overwhelmingly vote to turn Cena. But, and I think rightfully so, people assume WWE is so risk-averse that, if they turn Cena, there's no way they'd have the balls to also ramp up their product's edginess and use a Cena turn to usher in a new era. Right now, WWE is a bland, blatantly-scripted and mostly boring ballet/infomercial. I feel like if they turn Cena, it would stay that way -- only Cena would maybe do a few things differently so he can have a generic heel label slapped on him. It kind of goes back to what you briefly touched on on your last podcast. When you're analyzing this stuff, you can look at it through the prism of what you would do if you were in charge, or try to come up with ideas that could plausibly fit into what has a realistic shot of actually happening in today's WWE. Right now, it's totally unrealistic to expect that the major direction shift that would need to accompany a Cena heel turn would ever happen. Most people realize that, and are hesitant to turn Cena.

If Cena turning is done to usher in a new era where some edginess and unpredictability is brought back to WWE, I'm all for it. But if WWE is just going to remain a safe, stale, corporate version of the product I fell in love with, then he's gotta stay face. Like Hogan's turn or Austin's emergence, Cena turning needs to be part of a bigger overall direction for the company if it's going to be effective or have meaning.

Cena gets a reaction every time he comes out, which is more than can be said about most of the other guys on the roster. I wonder if the reason they're hesitant to turn him isn't because of merchandise or losing the children, but because they're worried if it flops, then they've lost the one guy on the roster who always generates a live reaction, even if it's an odd reaction of boos, cheers, pro-Cena chants and anti-Cena chants. Bottom line, people are reacting. Honestly, I don't think it would matter much if he turns. He'd still get mostly the mixed reaction he gets now and he'd still mostly wrestle guys he's already wrestled before.

Haven't read it yet but Grantland has a new story up about Inoki. It's not written by The Masked Man so it might actually be good. http://grantland.com/features/antonio-inoki-japan-politics-pro-wrestling-ric-flair-saddam-hussein-iraq-north-korea-kim-jong-un-hostages/

Who are some wrestlers who you thought were better when you saw them live compared to when you watched them on TV? I've only been to a handful of live wrestling cards in my lifetime, but I'd have to say The Big Show is much better live than on TV. He makes me yawn on TV, but the two times I've seen him live, his massive size and how he carries himself won me over. The first time I went to Nitro, I had seats near the top of the upper deck and Show still looked like he was 10 feet tall and 900 pounds. When I saw him at Raw a few years ago, those open-handed chops he delivered in the corner echoed throughout the entire arena. Even in this day and age when wrestling fans feel like they've already seen it all, Show connected with me on kind of an old-school "special attraction" level when I was watching him as part of a live audience.

This was a fun show, but goddamit Parv, you need to stop bashing my main man Kamala!

I gave a past episode of Jericho's new podcast a try yesterday and good Lord, Jericho in unlistenable when not speaking with a guest. He reminded me of Andy on "The Office."

After scrolling through this thread, it appears that everybody is annoyed with every wrestling term ever invented.

Flair makes the same argument when asked about the corner flip and a few of his other spots. I can see being disappointed if I'm in the live audience and I don't get to see a signature spot. But sometimes signature spots get annoying when I see them over and over again on TV.

Whenever WWE house shows come to the Twin Cities, specific matches and wrestlers are heavily advertised, mainly on the area rock radio station and during in-arena promos during sporting events. EDIT: The last time I went to Raw, two specific dark matches were also heavily advertised. If I remember correctly, the two dark matches were even printed on the ticket.

I voted for Andre because anyone who can drink 130 beers in one night deserves my vote.

I tried snorting a Scarface mound of cocaine and smoking Cheech & Chong sized joints and Randy Orton was still awful. Seriously, Orton's gotta be the most irrelevant wrestler ever. That's fine if you think he's decent in the ring (he better be at least somewhat decent after all these years, at least in a few people's eyes), but it doesn't change the fact that very few people actually give a shit about Randy Orton.

Is it worth dropping $10 to buy Stan Hansen's book on Kindle?

Are we seriously talking about Orton as a Hall of Fame candidate? Are we going to discuss Nick Punto as a possible baseball HOFer or Trent Dilfer for the football HOF while we're at it?

Randy Orton is over? Maybe he's over to the crowd on WWE 2K14, but he isn't in real life. This is why I asked the question if anybody gives a shit about Randy Orton. Unless I'm so out of touch with the modern product that audience silence and indifference is considered being over these days, Orton is not over, yet keeps getting pushed like he is.

I hate listen to JR's podcast the same way some people on this board hate-read the Masked Man's Grantland pieces.

That announcer in Portland does that a lot. When I first heard him do it, I had to rewind several times to make sure I heard what I thought I heard. He might be the only guy in wrestling history to give an accurate representation of how many people were in the building. Sometimes he'd say it's a light crowd, other times he'd estimate the stands were "about 80 percent full" or some other number. He had journalistic integrity!

Jerry: Ross is as bad as the reviews suggest, maybe worse. Each podcast he basically interviews himself and has a guest on to provide an additional voice between his unintelligent ramblings.

Yup.

A couple of you are saying that Orton is good to great in the ring. To me he's very mechanical and a paint-by-the-numbers type of worker, but to each their own. At least a few of you appear to give a shit about Randy Orton because you think he is, or has been, decent in the right. So that kind of answers the question I posed in the thread title.

I gotta disagree, Loss. Orton has been near the top of the card for so long, it would be insulting to the audience and bad booking if the likes of HHH and Steph didn't chide him for never getting over.